George Bryce speaks his mind on the Pro Stock Bike Situation

[force fan]

You should have been quoting Hector Arana instead of Matt Smith from that article! I really like Hector's attitude.....that shows how determined a racer he is!

"I can’t say nothing about the V-Rod (Harley-Davidsons) because if I have one of them and I find something, I am going to use it,” said Hector Arana Sr., the 2009 NHRA Pro Stock Motorcycle world champ, who rides a Buell. “They work hard and I believe that Byron (Hines) is a very smart man, and whatever he has got he is going to make it go fast. We were behind the 8-ball all along anyway (at the Gatornationals). We didn’t get parts on time from various venders and it hurt us. We were unable to test and we showed up at the track (for the Gatornationals) and I still had to finish my motor there. Saying all that, we did well. Driving back home, I’m thinking can I make up 5 mph? How can I make up a whole tenth (of a second) to run with them (the Harley-Davidsons)? We are just going to have to find horsepower and it is hard with this S&S motor. I’m just going to see what we can do to close this gap.”

That's all fine, but the NHRA will not give others the chance to "find something" because no one else has access to those parts.

 

[MHayes]

That's all fine, but the NHRA will not give others the chance to "find something" because no one else has access to those parts.

I think that's clearly understood Lynn, especially since it's been mentioned in this thread and many, many others 1,000x. The point I was making is that Hector is attempting to 'fill the gap" however he can right now instead of whining.

Seriously, if there is such a lack of parity in the class and it's THAT bad for the non-Harley teams, then they should just all stay at home to make a point. And what was George Bryce thinking......if it's virtually impossible to compete against the Harley's, then why even come back to NHRA PSM??? Unless you'll willing to stand up and do something drastic (not just whining on Facebook and to a few media outlets), then just shut up and race!

 

[mick]

maybe bryce, smith, koretsky and co. should lobby nhra for 1000' racing?
if the harleys are coming on so strong on the top end and they lose
320' of it?.....look ma, simple - the lights are already there for the pros
and no one has to spend additional money on new or revised parts.
.....will have less time @ the concessions and bathrooms though

- i do not prefer 1000' racing, but i'm ok with it
- i do not prefer PSB, but i'd be ok with them @ 1000'

betcha' never thought 1000' racing could sneek into this thread

 

[.]

PSM Parity | Demand Parity In NHRA Pro Stock Motorcycle

 

[Rat]

And what was George Bryce thinking......if it's virtually impossible to compete against the Harley's, then why even come back to NHRA PSM??? Unless you'll willing to stand up and do something drastic (not just whining on Facebook and to a few media outlets), then just shut up and race!

He did not just come back to run against the V&H team. He came back to make noise about this issue and try and help fix it anyway he can once and for all.

 

[nhdriver]

It's nice that V&H can custom re engineer an antiquated design to be competitive (even dominate ) against competitors w/ an engine based on n actual production bike engine. I agree w/ Bryce this is an uneven playing field if there ever was one. No one can even buy the parts V&H uses in their dominating bikes. Can you build a GM P/S engine, A Mopar P/S engine with Available parts? Yes. A Harley P/S bike engine?, no. If the parts are not available to any team w/ the money to buy them, Then no team (including V&H) should be allowed to run them.Shame on you NHRA!

 

[.]

And what was George Bryce thinking......if it's virtually impossible to compete against the Harley's, then why even come back to NHRA PSM??? Unless you'll willing to stand up and do something drastic (not just whining on Facebook and to a few media outlets), then just shut up and race!

“We have stayed out of the NHRA for the last three years because of the unfair rules with preference to the Harley Davidson team. But, we missed out on the dreams, wishes and abilities of our friends, racers, teammates and sponsors that wanted to go try out and experience NHRA racing. It’s cool to get to race with our Hungarian friend, Jeno, and with Scotty and John to help them chase their dreams and achieve their goals.”
http://www.competitionplus.com/drag...ompetitive-effort-and-disdain-for-harley-team

 

[.]

This is getting good. Shane Maloney to Eddie Krawiec Sr. on FB:

Mr. Eddie... Stop and think about the situation as a fan and not a Father. Vance & Hines has had a S&S Buell for over a year and to this day they can't run the numbers we put up back in 2007 with a rookie driver. They have Chip Ellis, hands down one of the best to ever throw a leg over a motorcycle. Why can't Byron make the power with the S&S motor? I know its not from a lack of trying. It's in their best interest to make that bike run fast. And please don't tell me that it's Harry's bike, that bike lives in the same shop in Brownsburg that the V Rods do. You take the rule book to any engine builder in the world and they will all tell you the same thing. The rules are messed up, plain and simple. If Byron can't make a 2 Valve Buell run with the V Rods what makes you think the rest can?

 

[Paul]

This is getting good. Shane Maloney to Eddie Krawiec Sr. on FB:

I just read what Eddie Sr said and he brings up a good point. At the end of the year last year there was little complaining about parity as the bikes were close. Hell, I remember being at Reading and on Monday Hector Jr and Matt had the best bikes on the property. What has happened since then? The Harley boys went to work in the off-season and it appears (and Hector admitted he didn't get a chance for much R&D and testing) no one else made as much gains as the V&H team and they will likely be penalized for this. Is this right? I am on the fence about this issue as I can see both sides of the debate. If V&H has a rules change that hinders their performance, I would work hard at the shop before the Countdown and lay it on them when the NHRA will be least likely to make a rules change against them.

 

[dupe]

bottom Line is $$$$$$$$$$ weather its with the nhra or r.n.d your bike or equiment your gonna fall behind the front runners. It always will an allways has no matter what class. Its how we can fill our pockets. If it takes more $$$ to get in the mix of Bikes or cars who's gonna pay. An resaults will change. Bottom line is $$$$$$$$. Hope yhall get that The way its ment to say. Smart ones will.

 

[NYNitro86]

That would be pretty fun to watch, I guess it would get out of control eventually and would have to be reeled in but it would be cool to watch them get to that point.

I think it would also get average fans interested in the class again.

Unfortunately no chance it would every happen unless Vince McMahon buys the NHRA and turns it into the XHRA, man, could you imagine the back up girls if that happened.

that would be so bad, it would not even be as good as XFL.

I wonder how the Viper Motorcycle program will fair, maybe that will be a shot in the arm for the non-harleys.

 

[none]

It's nice that V&H can custom re engineer an antiquated design to be competitive (even dominate ) against competitors w/ an engine based on n actual production bike engine. I agree w/ Bryce this is an uneven playing field if there ever was one. No one can even buy the parts V&H uses in their dominating bikes. Can you build a GM P/S engine, A Mopar P/S engine with Available parts? Yes. A Harley P/S bike engine?, no. If the parts are not available to any team w/ the money to buy them, Then no team (including V&H) should be allowed to run them.Shame on you NHRA!

I'm staying out of the Motorcycle debate, I knew they were going to look at it and they are. I just want to point out one error in this thinking. While it is true you can buy a PS head from GM or MOPAR it is NOT TRUE that you can buy one from KB Racing, or Allen Johnson. They buy castings and then make them into what they want. You can buy the casting, you can not buy the finished product. Just call KB and tell them you want to buy an engine just like they run. They will laugh at you.

V&H uses billet aluminum and makes heads what do you want them to sell? The billet chunks? That would be the equivalent of buying a raw casting from GM to make a PS head. If Hector, or Matt find a different port design that makes more power do you think they would call everybody else and share the news? Heck no they wouldn't they would show up at the next race and kick butt with it.

Alan

 

[NYNitro86]

I'm staying out of the Motorcycle debate, I knew they were going to look at it and they are. I just want to point out one error in this thinking. While it is true you can buy a PS head from GM or MOPAR it is NOT TRUE that you can buy one from KB Racing, or Allen Johnson. They buy castings and then make them into what they want. You can buy the casting, you can not buy the finished product. Just call KB and tell them you want to buy an engine just like they run. They will laugh at you.

V&H uses billet aluminum and makes heads what do you want them to sell? The billet chunks? That would be the equivalent of buying a raw casting from GM to make a PS head. If Hector, or Matt find a different port design that makes more power do you think they would call everybody else and share the news? Heck no they wouldn't they would show up at the next race and kick butt with it.

Alan

The Bob Glidden Effect...He had his rollover in 1986 and used his jacket to cover his engine when he got out.

 

[baxter]

there has always been have and have not's in NHRA racing if you can't run what you brung and win switch classes. NHRA makes a ton of money off H-D as a company !!!!! I know a lot of people who race pro-stock bike and there is only a few who can't compete with the evil empire as there called . make you bike faster and stop *****ING !!!!!!!!!!

 

[.]

I'm staying out of the Motorcycle debate, I knew they were going to look at it and they are. I just want to point out one error in this thinking. While it is true you can buy a PS head from GM or MOPAR it is NOT TRUE that you can buy one from KB Racing, or Allen Johnson. They buy castings and then make them into what they want. You can buy the casting, you can not buy the finished product. Just call KB and tell them you want to buy an engine just like they run. They will laugh at you.

V&H uses billet aluminum and makes heads what do you want them to sell? The billet chunks? That would be the equivalent of buying a raw casting from GM to make a PS head. If Hector, or Matt find a different port design that makes more power do you think they would call everybody else and share the news? Heck no they wouldn't they would show up at the next race and kick butt with it.

Alan

Alan, even if George Bryce, the Arana's or anybody else designed and built a 4 valve head for the Buell's they still couldn't run it! Only V&H are allowed to run a 4 valve head with overhead cams. Why can't you understand that!?

 

[twostep]

While it is true you can buy a PS head from GM or MOPAR it is NOT TRUE that you can buy one from KB Racing, or Allen Johnson.

KB Racing and Allen Johnson heads are still 2-valve, and designed to sit on top of a cam-in-block engine. Nobody has a problem with V&H or anybody else enhancing a standardized design. Everybody has a problem with a rulebook that's standardized for everyone competing in Pro Stock Motorcycle - except Harley Davidson, who, as the Official Motorcycle and a major NHRA sponsor, is allowed to write their own rulebook as they see fit.

The argument is that the Harley V-Rod comes from the factory with a 4 valve, DOHC engine. Mid 80s Buick Regal/Grand Nationals came from the factory with a turbo V6, too....how'd that work out for Buddy Ingersoll?

 

[TooTall999]

I'm staying out of the Motorcycle debate, I knew they were going to look at it and they are. I just want to point out one error in this thinking. While it is true you can buy a PS head from GM or MOPAR it is NOT TRUE that you can buy one from KB Racing, or Allen Johnson. They buy castings and then make them into what they want. You can buy the casting, you can not buy the finished product. Just call KB and tell them you want to buy an engine just like they run. They will laugh at you.

V&H uses billet aluminum and makes heads what do you want them to sell? The billet chunks? That would be the equivalent of buying a raw casting from GM to make a PS head. If Hector, or Matt find a different port design that makes more power do you think they would call everybody else and share the news? Heck no they wouldn't they would show up at the next race and kick butt with it.

Alan

Although several teams do lease pro stock engines..Vance and Hines- Harley won't let anyone else race a v-rod motor. You can't buy one, you can't lease one. Unless you're name is Andrew Hines or Eddie Kraewic, you ain't riding one.

 

[daveo]

Waaah! Who need a class that gets paid the least, Watched even less, and only races a afew of the Big boys show? B.F.D.

 

[Nunz]

I don't think "Who Cares?" is really fair to these racers. Everyone is entitled to their favorites, there are actually people who favor Pro Stock over nitro cars. But, love 'em or hate 'em, the bike racers have built a serious category over the years, and are very professional. And running 6.70s at 200 has to get ANY gearhead's attention. Simply put, engines such as Buell's, which are in essence the same platform as HDs, should be allowed the same mods. IMO

 

[sdwarf36]

While 99.9% of HD's line up is the ancient v twin pushrod 2 valve (same as the Buell) the V Rod in real life IS a v twin 4 valve ohc.