Full fields? At what price? (1 Viewer)

[Bill]

There was a lot of speculation earlier this year about the difficulty in filling up 16 qualifying slots in the T/F and F/C ranks.

Well, we HAVE "full fields," but upon closer inspection it would appear that the quality of the cars represented at the bottom half of these qualified fields isn't what it used to be.

Just to see what kind of close competition these fields might produce, I took a representative race (the one in progress now at St. Louis) and compared the elapsed time difference between the #1 and the #16 qualifier in T/F and F/C.

Here's what I learned:

St. Louis e.t. differential between #1 and #16, in 2006 and 2009.

T/F in 2006: .248, slowest to quickest.
T/F in 2009: .578, slowest to quickest

F/C in 2006: .207, slowest to quickest
F/C in 2009: .629, slowest to quickest

It would seem that there are a lot of "filler" cars that are not really competitive... they're only there to ensure a "full field."


I am aware that this is "old news," and not anything that most folks are unaware of; it was just interesting to see the numbers, I thought.

 

[Mooseman]

I wouldn't say those bottom of the pack cars are only there to fill the field , they earnt their position like everyone else . Whats changed now is with some of the heavy hitters of previous years either retiring or for whatever reason not racing the cars that were in previous years not able to qualify because of more heavy hitter cars are now able to get into the field .

 

[Toejam]

Well if anyone has a theory on how to get 16 SPONSORED cars to every race I'm sure the racers would love to hear it!

 

[Randy]

Instead of calling them "fillers" why don't you express your appreciation for what it takes to do this on their own dime in today's economy. And, that you appreciate the fact that these people are out there trying.

 

[Bill]

I am calling them what they appear to be: "fillers."

That doesn't mean that I have any criticism for what they are doing, or a lack of appreciation that they are there.

But, if the cars that were there in 2006 were still racing, the "filler" cars wouldn't be in the program.

That's why I think it's appropriate to call them "fillers," because that's what they are doing; filling up the vacant spots that faster, but absent, cars populated, before the financial crunch.

I applaud their efforts; I was a fan of Bobby Lagana's efforts, long before there was a 2nd-generation Lagana driving.

That doesn't alter the fact that the racing is not as close as it was.

It's astounding to me, given the astronomical cost of putting a Fuel car on the track, that ANYBODY can do it without a major sponsor.

My feelings aside, I did think the numbers were interesting.

I still do.


Bill

 

[clwill]

It's a little unfair to use St. Louis, though, as there were only two qualifying sessions. Some of the lower budget teams need all the passes they can get.

On the question, though, with no testing allowed, how do you expect these "fillers" (as you put it) to become competitive? Magic? Wishing?

I think, as someone else said, we should show these folks some love. Otherwise, we'd be seeing 2, 3, 4 bye runs... Or 8 car fields like IHRA. Right?

 

[Rexfiles]

And no offense to anyone, I think the lesser funded teams getting a shot to play on Sunday, and even a "shot at Glory", is fantastic.

Maybe when the real sponsorship $$$$$ start rolling back in, they will BE there to reap the rewards, visibility and programs in place.

Also hungry and able to offer a potential sponsor a great "bang for the buck", with the ability to run "lean and mean.

BRAVO!!!

REX

 

[FC Girl]

Instead of calling them "fillers" why don't you express your appreciation for what it takes to do this on their own dime in today's economy. And, that you appreciate the fact that these people are out there trying.

Well said. On Race Day, think of the Upset stories when a well known team smokes the tires or ????? and the other team goes rounds

 

[chop]

Has anybody thought that some of the "filler cars" might just be booked in by NHRA to have full fields? I had this thrown @ me by somebody and it got me to thinking about it.

 

[ticker]

Has anybody thought that some of the "filler cars" might just be booked in by NHRA to have full fields? I had this thrown @ me by somebody and it got me to thinking about it.

I don't think NHRA is in the booking business. That would cost them money.

 

[PJ]

I do think that it is a very real possibility that it is whats happening and IF that is the case then its a good move by nhra.


I would agree that fields are further apart right now in the nitro classes but this race, due to the shortened qualifying sessions, is not the best test subject. Also we have gone through other times where there has been a big drop between the top and bottom of the field.

As for calling them fillers, I don't think you meant that to sound as harsh as it did. Doesn't matter who was here last year, 5 years ago or whenever. If they are not here today then they are not fast enough to qualify. Sure in years past some of these people would not have made the show but you have to start somewhere. I think John Force would have been called a filler at one point....seems to have worked out well for him.

 

[clwill]

Has anybody thought that some of the "filler cars" might just be booked in by NHRA to have full fields? I had this thrown @ me by somebody and it got me to thinking about it.

What do you mean by "booked in"? Do you mean they waive the entry fee? Maybe, but I doubt it.

The entry fee is a tiny portion of the cost to run. The real cost is in towing there, parts, nitro, feeding the crew, etc., etc. Hard to believe a team would say, "oh, well, now that I save a couple grand, I'll be there in a heartbeat".

If you mean, paid to be there, as in like a match race, where some/all costs are covered. Well, I find that exceptionally hard to believe... The other teams would scream bloody murder.

 

[chop]

What do you mean by "booked in"? Do you mean they waive the entry fee? Maybe, but I doubt it.

The entry fee is a tiny portion of the cost to run. The real cost is in towing there, parts, nitro, feeding the crew, etc., etc. Hard to believe a team would say, "oh, well, now that I save a couple grand, I'll be there in a heartbeat".

If you mean, paid to be there, as in like a match race, where some/all costs are covered. Well, I find that exceptionally hard to believe... The other teams would scream bloody murder.

It takes money to make money and if you think NHRA isn't above paying show money,I think you would be fooling yourself. Look @ it this way,how would single runs look to the paying public. As far as the higher funded teams screaming about it,they need somewhere to race. I didn't say NHRA was doing it but I think it would be possible for the good of the sport and THEIR POCKET BOOK.

 

[None]

What do you mean by "booked in"? Do you mean they waive the entry fee? Maybe, but I doubt it.

The entry fee is a tiny portion of the cost to run. The real cost is in towing there, parts, nitro, feeding the crew, etc., etc. Hard to believe a team would say, "oh, well, now that I save a couple grand, I'll be there in a heartbeat".

If you mean, paid to be there, as in like a match race, where some/all costs are covered. Well, I find that exceptionally hard to believe... The other teams would scream bloody murder.

The pro teams don't pay to play. Only the sportsman have to pay to get in.

 

[chop]

The Pros don't pay an entry fee,they pay some kind of insurance fee. I know that was the case and if that's changed,so be it.

 

[BaldyLochs]

I don't care what sport you're in. Never discount or overlook your competitors. Look at what happened yesterday in Kentucky.... I wonder if that guy who won was put in as a "filler"... at 50 to 1 odds??? He did a pretty good job of completley embarrassing the high-profile, million-dollar, Hype & Glory entries that all the experts were all foaming about. Winners can come from anywhere, man.
So my question is, if NHRA is comping cars to show up.... does that offer include a couple barrels of Nitromethane?

 

[Zak]

Has anybody thought that some of the "filler cars" might just be booked in by NHRA to have full fields? I had this thrown @ me by somebody and it got me to thinking about it.

Conspiracy Theorist?

Of the 'filler' teams that I know - NONE have been offered any concessions for showing up at an NHRA race. In fact - if you run both sides of the fence you lose points - negating any shot at top 10 bonus from race to race.

We pay the same for extra tickets and additional parking spaces as anyone else.

PS - a 'funner' study - How many 'filler' teams have won rounds this year?

 

[chop]

Conspiracy Theorist?

Of the 'filler' teams that I know - NONE have been offered any concessions for showing up at an NHRA race. In fact - if you run both sides of the fence you lose points - negating any shot at top 10 bonus from race to race.

We pay the same for extra tickets and additional parking spaces as anyone else.

PS - a 'funner' study - How many 'filler' teams have won rounds this year?

As I said,somebody mentioned it to me and I put it out as food for thought. Banish me to the IHRA.

 

["Dr. Dirt"]

Has anybody thought that some of the "filler cars" might just be booked in by NHRA to have full fields? I had this thrown @ me by somebody and it got me to thinking about it.

On the contrary there Alphonso! Ask the Strasburgs about how they were treated for filling the Pomona show at the beginning of the season. They not only brought a competitive car and won first round with a near guarantee of winning second round to a complete tire smoker which would've landed them square into the semis. Then they were treated like red-headed step children at best. Rulings from the deep archives of some obscure manual were used to deprive them of their win money and points as if they wanted them to leave forever. Personally, I'd have never raced the NHRA again after that brutal treatment.

Or, you can think of it this way. Would the suits in Glendora actually let go of one single dollar they weren't forced to much less to "entice" somebody to the track? Given their financial history, I seriously doubt it!

 

[Bill]

As an aside, I have a couple of friends who run NHRA Sportsman cars (Stock Eliminator) and they both tell me that there is a $40.00 "surcharge" tacked onto their entry fee that is designated as a payment for insurance for the Pros, not themselves.

I've never heard what the Pros actually pay, if anything.

This sounds unconsicionable to me, but my friends who race are adamant... they have to pay it every national event that they race. $40.00. Not a lot of money, but, come ON..... the Pros get in free and can't pay their OWN INSURANCE???

Give me a break!