Clemens on 60 minutes (2 Viewers)

[Jim]

How Babe Ruth would do in Today's game is anyone's guess. But lets remember he was a Full-time Pitcher and a Damn good one at that for 3-4 years before they discovered his slugging ability! That means he could've had another 100 dingers had he'd hit full time!

Babe also played in part of the so called dead ball era of baseball.

 

[Joker]

Have any of yall listened to the 17 min phone conversation between Clemens and McNamee from this past Fri night. If not, go listen to it and let me know what you think after listening to it.

I know its on Sports Radio 610 - Homepage for sure.

Justin

 

[Sean D, shondoo]

And to defend Bonds....doping up does not make you put the bat on the ball any better...Bonds has major league talent just like Clemens...

DING! DING! DING! We have a winner!

This couldn't have been said better. The juice has nothing to do with the hand-eye coordination necessary for hitting. All the juice did was turn Barroid's 360-foot jacks into 420-foot bombs. Either way, downtown is downtown. Like I said a few months ago in another similar thread, Barry's actions were nothing more than commensurate with what the pitchers were doing to gain their edge. When I said that, it wasn't acknowledged, but now everyone is getting a chance to see and I love it. And for the record, I don't like Bonds and I do like Clemens........

As for a response on the phone call, Justin, I thought Roger left too many opportunities on the table (for me to believe him, at least). I'm sure that he was either coached by counsel prior to the phone call or during, but when Mac repeatedly asked "what do you want me to do?", Clemens' answer should've been very simple. I know if I was in Roger's shoes on that phone call, and I was undoubtedly innocent, my reponse would've pretty much been "Well, Mac, I'm having a press conference on Monday and you can bring your sorry, lyin' a$$ to it and let the whole world know you lied".

I'm a huge Roger Clemens fan, but I think the only reason he's pissed off is not because he's been wrongfully accused, but because he's caught...........

Sean D

 

[none]

Justin,

Can you post a direct link? I'm not smart enough to find it on the homepage.

Thanks,
Alan

 

[Joker]

Justin,

Can you post a direct link? I'm not smart enough to find it on the homepage.

Thanks,
Alan

No prob Alan. You couldnt find it b/c it was under podcast and they moved it somewhere. I couldnt find it either when I just went back so I put it in yahoo and here's what I found:

Clemens, McNamee have 'emotional' phone talk -- Newsday.com

That should open up an article and you can click on listen to Clemens phone conversation. Let me know if it works or not.

 

[none]

Got it, Thanks,
Alan

 

[PJ]

I don't get how people can claim steroids do not help. I realize we all grew up with baseball and it sucks to think that the last 10-20 years has been a waste of over inflated steroids induced numbers but it is what it is.

True we're not going to take some 400lbs guy sitting on his easy chair, pump him full of steroids and watch him run 9.9 second 100m dashes in a month. Nor will it help that little 90lbs gymnast girl start knocking 400ft home runs. There has to be a high level of talent and ability there already. Steroids can make the average become good, the good become better, the better become great and the great to become legends.

Bonds was already on his way to a great career before the steroids but there is no doubt that his numbers are much too infalted due to the steroids. Over the last 10 years he averaged more home runs a year than he had ever hit in the first 1/2 of his career. I don't see how someone can rationalize that.

Also one point that many people overlook in the steroids debate is recovery time. Most people think steroids and they think huge muscles. Another effect they have is to reduced recovery time. Not only to bounce back from injuries but also to repeat an event. In the case of a pitcher, lets say the average (non juiced)pitcher can only rear back and throw their 100mph fastball every 7 pitches otherwise their arm tires out too quickly, the roids would help lower that recovery time and allow the pitcher to throw that 100mph pitch more often. It's a huge advantage if you can throw that pitch every 4 or 5 pitches. Also the quicker recovery time can allow them to pitch more innings.

 

[Suzie Q]

UGH!!! I can't believe I listened to that phone call! That was a pretty darn big waste of time!!!

 

[Sean D, shondoo]

Bonds was already on his way to a great career before the steroids but there is no doubt that his numbers are much too infalted due to the steroids. Over the last 10 years he averaged more home runs a year than he had ever hit in the first 1/2 of his career. I don't see how someone can rationalize that.

Also one point that many people overlook in the steroids debate is recovery time. Most people think steroids and they think huge muscles. Another effect they have is to reduced recovery time. Not only to bounce back from injuries but also to repeat an event. In the case of a pitcher, lets say the average (non juiced)pitcher can only rear back and throw their 100mph fastball every 7 pitches otherwise their arm tires out too quickly, the roids would help lower that recovery time and allow the pitcher to throw that 100mph pitch more often. It's a huge advantage if you can throw that pitch every 4 or 5 pitches. Also the quicker recovery time can allow them to pitch more innings.

If you were referring to my response, I wasn't necessarily trying to rationalize Barroid in any way. The only point I was trying to make is that it did nothing for his already above average ability to put the bat on the ball at the right time. Did they make home runs out of some that wouldn't have been? Probably. But a bunch of them, mostly the long ones, would've been gone anyway. We'll never know the exact number.

You support the point I've been trying to make for months with your last paragraph. Up to this point, it's been Bonds, Bonds, Bonds. Well, finally the truth is coming out. The truth is he (Bonds) was doing nothing more than keeping up with the Jones'. Is he better than the Babe? You can't answer that without being speculative. Yeah, the Babe didn't juice, but the Babe also wasn't hitting 95+mph heat, much less all the junk that alot of todays best pitchers can now throw thanks to the juice.

The part that sucks about this whole deal are things like the HOF. Nobody will ever know when steroids went into full swing, nor will we ever come close to knowing the actual number of guys juicing. That mandates 1 of 2 things. You either keep them all out (which again is impossible without knowing an exact timeline), or you accept the fact that this era is tainted (which by the way is as much MLB's fault than anyone's) and recognize the best athletes of this tainted era. After all, they appear to have all been on the same level playing field............................the field of cheaters.

Sean D

 

["Dr. Dirt"]

I'm no baseball fan but I did listen to the entire taped phone call on ESPN and the subsequent press conference. I watched his interview on 60 minutes as well and I still feel unqualified to pass judgment. I do know this however:
* He hasn't grown physically anywhere the likes of these others who have been HGH and steroid users.
* He didn't have a lack of physical preparation at any time in his career. He maintained an excellent physical presence throughout his career so far.
* His record proves he's one of the best (if not the best pitcher) statistically I've ever seen throw the ball from the mound.
* He's one of the most sought after players in our modern era
* He owns or is threatening to take over some of the most prestigious records in the game's history.
* He's quite aware of the dangers (long term) of using chemical enhancements.
* He hasn't requested McNamee withdraw his statements (knowing full well that Mac already said he would do anything for him) instead he only requested he tell the full truth.

These are not the attributes of a man in need of false or short term assistance. These are the attributes of the best pitcher I have ever seen in my 56 years of watching baseball. Sure, there have been many others with their legacies such as Nolan Ryan and many others but they each have their limitations or stories. I've just never seen a better pitcher's career and I sure hope he is proven clean as that seems to be more important to him than the Hall of Fame or anything else at this point in life.

 

[Kelly]

There's one thing I know for sure with all of this.....we will NEVER know the complete truth.

 

[Sean D, shondoo]

There's one thing I know for sure with all of this.....we will NEVER know the complete truth.

Ain't that the truth............

Sean D