Back to the 1/4 Mile??? (1 Viewer)

[Bruno]

The standing quarter mile is what all cars have always been judged by. 1,000 ft racing to me is terrible. The numbers mean nothing. When Garlits went 5.63 that was unreal. then dipping into the 4's.... But these times are impossible to judge how we have progressed. Slow the cars down and go back to 1/4 mile racing. Fans want to see side by side racing. When there is a peddle fest the fans go nuts because they can actually WATCH the cars go down the track. Now it is just a blur and all eyes just go to the scoreboard.

 

[TK]

With 1000 feet racing, there is 25% less race track than the traditional 1320 feet. That is a huge chunk taken away from the race and greatly lessens the opportunity for various outcomes of the race.

 

[Cliff]

if the nitro cars could be slowed down to 4.8 and 300 and ran 1/4 mile.... that would be a good combination for side by side races with minimal breakage. But.... the cars would still be a blur. It's like the nitro cars have always been a blur. I remember being in the spectator stands at Lions. The stands were at an angle & you could see the cars really take off at the 1/8 mile. This would be like last part of 1971. The T/F cars were probably running 4 seconds plus in the 1/8 and it seemed like the back half took about 1.5 seconds, but you could really see how hard they were accelerating. 1/4 mile was 6.30's or better & around 236 MPH. Sure, you had more time to watch the cars, but even then, they were so fast... Also remember being really excited watching T/F around 1963. It was a rush just watching the cars race. Smoke coming off the slicks, nitro flames from the exhaust and they'd run 8.00 at around 196-197. It was a blur then too..... There is nothing like nitro racing! Nothing!

 

[camaro]

With 1000 feet racing, there is 25% less race track than the traditional 1320 feet. That is a huge chunk taken away from the race and greatly lessens the opportunity for various outcomes of the race.

exactly ......... alot of people claim its only 320ft less and u cant really tell the difference, well 25% or one quarter is a very large fraction in my book and selling a sport that only last for 4.5 seconds has always been a hard sell to new comers and knocking it down to 3.5 seconds is even harder to get a new generation of people interested

 

[ZWeinstein]

In a perfect world where every track has a mile of shutdown would I like to see 1/4 mile again.....yes but I dont think it would be feasible and I dont think we will ever see it. First off, how many tracks could handle quarter mile today without the worry of someone going hard into the sand/nets? Phoenix?, Gainsville? Chicago? Would teams and crew chiefs want to come up with a new combination and spend massive amounts of money coming up with new combos just for 3-5 races/tracks a season and would teams want to spend the money that will come with the extra carnage from that extra 320 feet? Would the NHRA/Goodyear want to see the speeds that would be reached going the extra 320 feet? That would mean slowing the cars down which would be the wrong way to go and would hurt the sport.

 

[Sean D, shondoo]

This is why its necessary to have an outside entity because we have to many closed minded people who think you cannot make it safer. Simple things like making sure there are no openings on the track, no lift booms in the shutdown. Be proactive and not reactive. Its impossible to account for every situation but you can make the window smaller. And yes there is a magic number if you apply the correct formula! It does not take an engineer or scientist to see we were running on tracks that were too short for fuel cars. Remove the boom from the end of the track and Scott is still racing, close the opening at Indy and Blaine might still be here.

So, you say it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see none of the tracks are long enough for fuel cars, then you site two incidents that have nothing to do with track/shutdown length...…...…...Ok.

And no, there isn't a magic formula when you consider a Super Gas car going off the end of the track. At that point, you would have to figure how far a fuel car would go after a full pull, with no chutes or brakes to deal with worst case scenario. That number would rule out ANY track EVER being safe enough since the beginning of the sport. Hell, we just had a Pro Mod go off the end of the track at an estimated 170-180 with no chutes, and later found to be no brakes. If there were infinite shutdown he'd probably still be coasting to a stop this morning.

Like it or not, sometimes it takes tragedy to open our eyes to that which we haven't been able to see up to that point. It's been that way in virtually every sport competed, not just motorsports. The fact of the matter is, racing is dangerous at every level in all motorsports, and no motorsport can be made to be 100% fool-proof within the envelope they compete within.

Sean D

 

[Cliff]

Was thinking about Denver. The combination they use there is different than the other tracks and the teams seem to adjust to it w/o any problems. IF there were races as different lengths, I think combinations could be developed for each situation. I'd rather see the cars slowed down by taking away power, than by less track prep. I really think that track prep is a safety factor these days.

 

[PJ]

1/4 mile nitro racing still happens, just cuz NHRA doesn't allow it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Someone mentioned before Dom Lagana's pass last year. I've seen several at Martin Mi.

Just like tuning for the altitude, heat or a bump tuners can still tune for the 1/4. Perhaps with slightly different rules to keep the speeds in check. It would add some variety, might be worth a try.

 

[none]

Was thinking about Denver. The combination they use there is different than the other tracks and the teams seem to adjust to it w/o any problems. IF there were races as different lengths, I think combinations could be developed for each situation. I'd rather see the cars slowed down by taking away power, than by less track prep. I really think that track prep is a safety factor these days.

Cliff,

Not arguing, just discussing, how much power do you think they would have to take away to get to the 4.80 300 mph area? And how best to do it without driving everyone out of business?

I'm very happy to hear the discussion starting, and hope that I will be involved in that discussion. Just to hear the different ideas getting kicked around.

Alan

 

[Sean D, shondoo]

What do you mean by driving everybody out of business, AR?

Sean D

 

[Z28LT1]

What do you mean by driving everybody out of business, AR?

Sean D

I assume he means slowing the cars down without major investments in new parts. Or, slowing them down while using parts they already have.

 

[none]

What do you mean by driving everybody out of business, AR?

Sean D

I mean if the solution is that you need new cars and different engines and all of your inventory becomes obsolete, many teams will be forced out of business. Think about the teams that survive buying used parts from Torrence, Kalitta, Schumacher etc. If you said (Completely making stuff up here) that the new deal would be 400 cubic inches, then it takes time for used parts to become available, and the smaller teams that can't afford to buy all new would be in deep trouble. You would also instantly diminish the value of the used parts that people have in inventory now.

Let's say that I'm Reinhart Racing and have two cars that compete at a high level. I buy new parts, run them and cycle them out frequently. I sell them to smaller teams for 50% of what new costs, and I restock with new parts. If my 20 sets of cylinder heads are no longer good for Fuel racing, then you have just stuck me with a huge worthless piles of aluminum, and since my operating budget took into account being able to see that stuff, it's a double hit. Plus, the smaller team won't have any used parts available so they have to find the money to buy new, sit out until used parts become available or quit.

I'm just saying that it needs to be considered.

Alan

 

[Sean D, shondoo]

I kinda figured this is what you meant, but I've posed this same question on here without much result up until now, so I'll pose it again since it's hot.

First off, I TOTALLY get the angle of the smaller teams using the used parts of the higher funded teams, so I can see that aspect of it and honestly didn't consider it before. However, just how much inventory do the high level teams have, and if it's a lot, how smart is that? In the climate we've had the past several years with marketing partners being very hard to come by, how in the world can you quantify keeping a bunch of inventory of anything? And as far as any retooling goes, how do they not have to constantly deal with that anyway when you consider the countless hours everybody spends trying to find horsepower?

Sean D

 

[camaro]

would love nothing more than to go back to the 1/4 mile but for it to happen the big 3 (schumacher / Force / Kalitta ) would have to be on board. awhile back i thought i read Connie Kalitta say if they went back to 1320, he would quit.

 

[megadeth]

This won’t happen! Too much money and time have been invested bye the teams for 1000’! As much as I would love to see it go back to its roots for the teams and drivers safety I’ll live with 1000’.
Trust me I was one of the traditionalist that hated 1000’ but with all the safety equipment added over the years these cars are to heavy to stop at the speeds these guys are going!

 

[Sean D, shondoo]

would love nothing more than to go back to the 1/4 mile but for it to happen the big 3 (schumacher / Force / Kalitta ) would have to be on board. awhile back i thought i read Connie Kalitta say if they went back to 1320, he would quit.

A very similar phenomenon the Pro Stock class has been having, a select few governing the classes for the masses. I get that, but I don't get that.

Bottom line, I just don't see how you can't take the approach of the overall health and longevity of the class, ANY class. What's it going to take to get more competitors out there? It's either going to be lower operational costs, or getting more asses in the seats, both at the events and in front of the television. If the latter of the two is accomplished, then marketing partnership shouldn't be as much of an issue that it currently is, thus the issue with operational costs becomes less. Either way, there needs to be some serious communication going on, and not just with NHRA and the big name teams, but ALL teams, both competing and those who have been sidelined but have a serious interest in coming back.

Sean D

 

[ironpony]

Limit RPM to 7400RPM they will have to slow down all the timers to get to the finish line without hitting the limiter, done.
Go back to bodies that look like factory cars not jelly beans and they will slow down.
Smaller fuel pump,
fixed blower overdrive at XXX%

the first idea costs nothing

 

[mikebcurve]

I've heard it thrown around about a smaller fuel pump, running one mag and reducing blower overdrive. How much could you slow them down and what would be the issues with this? If I'm not mistaken Tim Wilkerson tested something ( smaller fuel pump?) in the off season a few years ago.

 

[ironpony]

Forgive me if this is a dumb question but I've heard it thrown around about a smaller fuel pump, running one mag and reducing blower overdrive. How much could you slow them down and what would be the issues with this? If I'm not mistaken Tim Wilkerson tested something ( smaller fuel pump?) in the off season a few years ago.

Lots of bruised egos......................

 

[none]

Limit RPM to 7400RPM they will have to slow down all the timers to get to the finish line without hitting the limiter, done.
Go back to bodies that look like factory cars not jelly beans and they will slow down.
Smaller fuel pump,
fixed blower overdrive at XXX%

the first idea costs nothing

Ken,
Again, just talking, not arguing, but if the rev limiter you suggest was implemented, it would be about 10 minutes before DSR, JFR and AJPE were designing new heads. You would also be changing camshafts, and you would be on the limiter starting at the step. The best way to go fast isn't to continue to accelerate all the way down the track, it's to reach top speed as soon as possible then drive to the stripe. The quickest runs made, have had the highest MPH at the eighth.

If I'm on the limiter with the clutch locked up at 400' then I'm going to be quicker than if you don't hit lock up and limiter until 1200'

I don't know what will come of it, but I am very happy that the conversation has started.

Alan