Antron OK after round 1 accident

[.]

They (including me) pay a commercial license fee to sell their product from an NHRA National event.

Try it.

There you go! You pay a license fee because you're selling it! The person who had their video yanked from YouTube wasn't selling it to anybody. He shot it, he owned the copyright. The NHRA filed a false copyright claim to YouTube to have it yanked. And even if it was NHRA copyrighted material it fell under "Fair use" which still means it's a false DMCA copyright claim.

 

[Dave]

Out of respect to all involved, I really wasn't going to get inolved in this discusion. But since any shred of respect flew out the window several pages ago, here I go.

I think this topic should be taken off of here right away. After reading the majority of the comments made here, I think 95% of you are out of your minds. I applaud those trying to make suggestions to try to prevent something like this from EVER happening again, the rest of the comments here are pure drivel.

For Christ's sake, somebody was killed in this incident. The Schumacher team is going through hell as is the family and friends of this poor lady. I'm concerned about what Antron is going through. Yet that doesn't really seem to be all that important to all of the experts, engineers, and lawyers who have posted here.

The big concerns appear to be about some video on youtube that was taken down, what NHRA's rights are, and when is somebody offically dead.

First, if you didn't see the video on youtube, so what? By missing out on seeing this video, do you feel slighted in some way? What will you gain by seeing it?

Next, from what I've read here, it would seem that NHRA should just let the fans run the series and they should just sit back and do nothing. While the question about NHRA doing nothing is an arguable point, the bottom line is that they still run the show. It's their ballpark and their ballgame - a fan is just a guest at the event (whether you paid to get in or not). While I don't always agree with what NHRA does, they must have reasons for doing what they do when it comes to videos, broadcasting, etc.

Finally, the question was asked about when the person was offically dead. I won't speculate in regards to this lady because I have no idea what REALLY happened. As far as why isn't somebody pronunced dead at the track and only at the hospital, I don't know. It probably has to do with that somebody has to be "offically pronounced" by a Doctor type. There is a debate about if this lady died at the track or at the hospital because it was stated she was pronounced at the hospital. The official report said Scott Kalitta was pronounced at the hospital, I can promise you, Scott died at the track. I'm guessing there are some legal reasons for doing it this way. I do have one question though, WHAT THE HELL DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE TO YOU WHERE THE PERSON DIED?

So after all of the thoughts expresed here, what have you accomplished? Do you feel better about the accident? Does it make this tragic event look better? Enough already, let this alone.

Dave

 

[jackass]

NAPSTER... free music from people who bought the CD and posted for people to get copys of for free....

FREE part gone ..now you pay because it was determined just because you have the CD it does not give you the right to distribute copys with out written permission or a FEE.... court ordered...

 

[.]

What puzzles me, is a lot of keyboard lawyers who lose cases in the states they live in, try to try law on the internet.

Funny, and bigger than pictures.

 

[Jim]

How do you think photographers and videographers sell their product, if they don't own the copyright to it?

There is a difference between owning the copyright to an image and having the right to use or sell that image.

A photographer or videographer owns the copyright to any image or video they create. That means know one else can use or sell that image without the photographers permission.

However, having the copyright does not mean that a photographer or videographer is free to see an image or video clip. In many cases, the photographer or videographer also needs signed releases from people who appear in the image(s).

If the photos or video are of news events and are used for news purposes, the photographer or videographer owns the copyright for his or her image(s). No personal or property releases are necessary in order for the photographer or videographer to sell the image(s) for use by news media.

If the photos or videos are not being used for news purposes -- such as a poster or a highlight tape -- the photographer or videographer owns the copyright for his or her image(s). However, he or she cannot sell the image(s) without a signed release from anyone who is recognizable and the owner of any property included in the image(s).

Jim

 

[JB3]

Out of respect to all involved, I really wasn't going to get inolved in this discusion. But since any shred of respect flew out the window several pages ago, here I go.

I think this topic should be taken off of here right away. After reading the majority of the comments made here, I think 95% of you are out of your minds. I applaud those trying to make suggestions to try to prevent something like this from EVER happening again, the rest of the comments here are pure drivel.

For Christ's sake, somebody was killed in this incident. The Schumacher team is going through hell as is the family and friends of this poor lady. I'm concerned about what Antron is going through. Yet that doesn't really seem to be all that important to all of the experts, engineers, and lawyers who have posted here.

The big concerns appear to be about some video on youtube that was taken down, what NHRA's rights are, and when is somebody offically dead.

First, if you didn't see the video on youtube, so what? By missing out on seeing this video, do you feel slighted in some way? What will you gain by seeing it?

Next, from what I've read here, it would seem that NHRA should just let the fans run the series and they should just sit back and do nothing. While the question about NHRA doing nothing is an arguable point, the bottom line is that they still run the show. It's their ballpark and their ballgame - a fan is just a guest at the event (whether you paid to get in or not). While I don't always agree with what NHRA does, they must have reasons for doing what they do when it comes to videos, broadcasting, etc.

Finally, the question was asked about when the person was offically dead. I won't speculate in regards to this lady because I have no idea what REALLY happened. As far as why isn't somebody pronunced dead at the track and only at the hospital, I don't know. It probably has to do with that somebody has to be "offically pronounced" by a Doctor type. There is a debate about if this lady died at the track or at the hospital because it was stated she was pronounced at the hospital. The official report said Scott Kalitta was pronounced at the hospital, I can promise you, Scott died at the track. I'm guessing there are some legal reasons for doing it this way. I do have one question though, WHAT THE HELL DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE TO YOU WHERE THE PERSON DIED?

So after all of the thoughts expresed here, what have you accomplished? Do you feel better about the accident? Does it make this tragic event look better? Enough already, let this alone.

Dave

Dave ... This is the most sensible summary anybody could have written. Nicely done !!

 

[Toejam]

Look I was there and saw everything, the Youtube video shows just the crash NOT the tire going in the Pits! I don't see how wanting to view the crash is in anyway Morbid or sick as some of you are suggesting!

 

[Sean D, shondoo]

Someone in an official capacity; attending physician, medical examiner, coroner, etc., has to pronounce the person dead before it becomes official.
Also, no official notification is released to the public until members of the victim's family are notified.
No way can NHRA falsify, or alter, the time of death.

Okay, that being said, are there any professionals in the capacity you speak of, i.e. attending physicians, medical examiners or coroners on-hand at National Events? If there are only paramedics, then it seems like the scenario I talked about is not only quite possible, but very true, making it very easy for the event to conclude regardless of what happens.

Thanks for chiming in, Ted.

Sean D

 

[Jenn]

Look I was there and saw everything, the Youtube video shows just the crash NOT the tire going in the Pits! I don't see how wanting to view the crash is in anyway Morbid or sick as some of you are suggesting!

To take the so called 'high' road I suppose. I'd wager a bet that some who are screaming "Don't watch it, it's morbid" watched it a few times too.

Having two of my cars in the opposite lanes of TWO on track accidents, I can tell you that they are terrifying and awe inspiring at the same time. The average fan cannot imagine what goes through a crew members head when the car you are working on crashes. Or the car your car is racing against. You cannot control what is going on in either situation, you can only watch and pray, and maybe even scream and maybe you try to scream but no sound can come out.

You watched it once, when it happened, but then when there are videos available and you can watch you can take two mindsets. Not want to see the video, or WANT to see it so your brain can process that which it couldn't the first time.

When you know the end result you are prepared for it and your brain and your subconscious gains some relief from being able to process things that it was overloaded with.

That being said, even the average fan cannot completely comprehend what they just saw. I don't fault them for wanting to see it over and over either. It happened, we know the end result so there is nothing more to fear from watching the crash.

It's a different coping skill for everybody. Hope that made sense to some.

 

[Toejam]

NAPSTER... free music from people who bought the CD and posted for people to get copys of for free....

FREE part gone ..now you pay because it was determined just because you have the CD it does not give you the right to distribute copys with out written permission or a FEE.... court ordered...

Copying Music has been around since the beginning, they just didn't use the Internet! I couldn't tell you how many Blank cassettes I filledwith other people's music.

 

[yoda]

Photo series from the spectators side in NHRA's Facebook page- shot by Kyle Brown... The shots he caught were amazing- Antron was directly in front of him when the wheel let go, and Kyle's motordrive caught 8 well framed shots of the whole thing.

Welcome to Facebook | Facebook

 

[burnie]

Wow 16 pages of mostly crap!
Does anyone know how Antron and the family involved is?
Condolences to everyone effected by this tragedy.

 

[Roadsters]

From ESPN

NHRA crew chief John Medlen working to add wheel tethers

By Terry Blount

John Medlen, a longtime crew chief at John Force Racing and one of the leading safety innovators in the NHRA, is working feverishly on a plan to add wheel tethers to cars before the next event March 11-14 at Gainesville, Fla. Medlen is working with Lee Beard, the team manager at Don Schumacher Racing, the organization that fields Brown's dragster.

"I'm working on the tethers right now," Medlen said Tuesday from the JFR shop in Brownsburg, Ind. "It's very doable. The axles on these cars are pretty thin, but I think we've found a way to do it. I'm hoping we can get it done by Gainesville, but that depends on getting approval from the NHRA. We want this to become mandatory, but we have to make sure we don't cause a new problem and weaken the axle. I think we can figure this out," he said.

Wheel tethers made of steel cable have been used in other racing series for over a decade because of tragic incidents in the late 1990s.

Complete article on ESPN.com

 

[Mike]

Sean...
3 part answer to your question about MD's at the track and ability for paramedics to pronounce...and
"changing time of death"??????

a) at some National events there is a MD present

b) in Arizona...Paramedics CAN pronounce death..either thru a "standing order protocol", in cases of obvious death or via telemetry to their base hospital physician

c) the MOST likely scenario, in this event, which we (as Paramedics) would term a "trauma code"...(heart stops becuase of a traumatic injury...not from illness/disease) resuscitative measures were initiated by the track paramedics and the flight crew from AirEvac, and the pt was transported to the trauma center as those efforts continued and then AFTER trauma center interventions..the person was pronounced dead at the hospital

d) lastly...at ALL National events and MOST Divisional NHRA events...there are TWO distinct response teams..those dedicated to trackside emergencies AND additional resources dedicated to the spectator, vendor and pit side activities...

again...sincere condolences to the woman's family and friends

Mike
AZ Paramedic

 

[Tim5636sc]

Re: From ESPN

NOW...THIS IS A GOOD START!

But once again, it took a tragedy for action to occur. We've seen several wheels come off in previous years, however, it took a fatality to happen to 'inspire' somebody to attempt to fix the problem now. I am wondering why our sport can not be more pro-active about these issues?

I'm glad Mr. Medlen is putting forth the effort to solve the problem before another incident occurs.

NHRA crew chief John Medlen working to add wheel tethers

By Terry Blount

John Medlen, a longtime crew chief at John Force Racing and one of the leading safety innovators in the NHRA, is working feverishly on a plan to add wheel tethers to cars before the next event March 11-14 at Gainesville, Fla. Medlen is working with Lee Beard, the team manager at Don Schumacher Racing, the organization that fields Brown's dragster.

"I'm working on the tethers right now," Medlen said Tuesday from the JFR shop in Brownsburg, Ind. "It's very doable. The axles on these cars are pretty thin, but I think we've found a way to do it. I'm hoping we can get it done by Gainesville, but that depends on getting approval from the NHRA. We want this to become mandatory, but we have to make sure we don't cause a new problem and weaken the axle. I think we can figure this out," he said.

Wheel tethers made of steel cable have been used in other racing series for over a decade because of tragic incidents in the late 1990s.

Complete article on ESPN.com

 

[Sean D, shondoo]

Sean...
3 part answer to your question about MD's at the track and ability for paramedics to pronounce...and
"changing time of death"??????

a) at some National events there is a MD present

b) in Arizona...Paramedics CAN pronounce death..either thru a "standing order protocol", in cases of obvious death or via telemetry to their base hospital physician

c) the MOST likely scenario, in this event, which we (as Paramedics) would term a "trauma code"...(heart stops becuase of a traumatic injury...not from illness/disease) resuscitative measures were initiated by the track paramedics and the flight crew from AirEvac, and the pt was transported to the trauma center as those efforts continued and then AFTER trauma center interventions..the person was pronounced dead at the hospital

d) lastly...at ALL National events and MOST Divisional NHRA events...there are TWO distinct response teams..those dedicated to trackside emergencies AND additional resources dedicated to the spectator, vendor and pit side activities...

again...sincere condolences to the woman's family and friends

Mike
AZ Paramedic

Thank you for the information, Mike!

Sean D

 

[SAS]

Out of respect to all involved, I really wasn't going to get inolved in this discusion. But since any shred of respect flew out the window several pages ago, here I go.

I think this topic should be taken off of here right away. After reading the majority of the comments made here, I think 95% of you are out of your minds. I applaud those trying to make suggestions to try to prevent something like this from EVER happening again, the rest of the comments here are pure drivel.

For Christ's sake, somebody was killed in this incident. The Schumacher team is going through hell as is the family and friends of this poor lady. I'm concerned about what Antron is going through. Yet that doesn't really seem to be all that important to all of the experts, engineers, and lawyers who have posted here.

The big concerns appear to be about some video on youtube that was taken down, what NHRA's rights are, and when is somebody offically dead.

First, if you didn't see the video on youtube, so what? By missing out on seeing this video, do you feel slighted in some way? What will you gain by seeing it?

Next, from what I've read here, it would seem that NHRA should just let the fans run the series and they should just sit back and do nothing. While the question about NHRA doing nothing is an arguable point, the bottom line is that they still run the show. It's their ballpark and their ballgame - a fan is just a guest at the event (whether you paid to get in or not). While I don't always agree with what NHRA does, they must have reasons for doing what they do when it comes to videos, broadcasting, etc.

Finally, the question was asked about when the person was offically dead. I won't speculate in regards to this lady because I have no idea what REALLY happened. As far as why isn't somebody pronunced dead at the track and only at the hospital, I don't know. It probably has to do with that somebody has to be "offically pronounced" by a Doctor type. There is a debate about if this lady died at the track or at the hospital because it was stated she was pronounced at the hospital. The official report said Scott Kalitta was pronounced at the hospital, I can promise you, Scott died at the track. I'm guessing there are some legal reasons for doing it this way. I do have one question though, WHAT THE HELL DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE TO YOU WHERE THE PERSON DIED?

So after all of the thoughts expresed here, what have you accomplished? Do you feel better about the accident? Does it make this tragic event look better? Enough already, let this alone.

Dave

Well said Dave.

 

[Triple Nickel II]

Look I was there and saw everything, the Youtube video shows just the crash NOT the tire going in the Pits!

Joe...

There were more than one videos on YouTube of the crash and aftermath.

Fox10 out of Phoenix showed the video in question which DOES show the tire bounding over the 2nd concrete wall, then around in the area with the haulers.

The web version of the Fox 10 coverage is not near as clear as what was posted on YouTube.

See the video as well as an interview with Phoenix area racer and car builder Tom Yancer by clicking this link:

Spectator Killed by Flying Tire at Racing Event

 

[.]

Spectator Killed by Flying Tire at Racing Event

The reporter in this video said tires like the one involved in Sunday's accident are 2 feet wide. Exaggerate much???

 

[Jenn]

The reporter in this video said tires like the one involved in Sunday's accident are 2 feet wide. Exaggerate much???

Our S/C tires are 17 inches wide and if Yancer says they are two inches wide, not counting the bubble...I'd say 24 inches could be measured.