Richards/Smith, chassis is legal, not legal, legal again (1 Viewer)

[coyotedale]

Little known story that happend on Sat, after the first round of FC qualifying, the Richards/Smith Tire Kingdom car comes back, the motor is serviced, they are about ready to fire and do the warm up, when up comes Dan Olsen and another from NHRA tech.

Sorry Paul, we cannot let you run the car like that, the upgrades are not correct.

Now for the uniformed, the upgrades were performed, and inspected prior to the race and given the OK,,, the car goes through tech, still OK, the car makes the first run, all ok,,,, then just before it's time to warm up, the car is not legal and will not be allowed to run.

The call goes out to Murf and then the thrash begins to cut our bars and reweld sections that have already been welded on,,, to make the car safer mind you.

Oh, they did make it back in time, but didn't get to perform a warm up and seat the clutch,,, so Mike goes out about 200 ft and rattles the tires.

The ESPN crew was there covering this story, but as per the usual, it didn't get aired.

 

[FABMAN]

Little known story that happend on Sat, after the first round of FC qualifying, the Richards/Smith Tire Kingdom car comes back, the motor is serviced, they are about ready to fire and do the warm up, when up comes Dan Olsen and another from NHRA tech.

Sorry Paul, we cannot let you run the car like that, the upgrades are not correct.

Now for the uniformed, the upgrades were performed, and inspected prior to the race and given the OK,,, the car goes through tech, still OK, the car makes the first run, all ok,,,, then just before it's time to warm up, the car is not legal and will not be allowed to run.

The call goes out to Murf and then the thrash begins to cut our bars and reweld sections that have already been welded on,,, to make the car safer mind you.

Oh, they did make it back in time, but didn't get to perform a warm up and seat the clutch,,, so Mike goes out about 200 ft and rattles the tires.

The ESPN crew was there covering this story, but as per the usual, it didn't get aired.

Dale, if it passed tech and you made your first pass what stirred the pot, did someone protest you, and what exactly was done wrong.

 

[coyotedale]

Dale, if it passed tech and you made your first pass what stirred the pot, did someone protest you, and what exactly was done wrong.

You now have two bars that cross over on the top rail where the steering box is attached. The way they were welded/attached was questioned. Bear in mind, NHRA tech came out to the shop and said it was good to go before loading the car up,,, it went through tech once it got to the track on Tues, and was signed off. Only after the first run did someone come by, question how the retrofit was done, then did Dan Olsen come by and say that the car cannot make another run.

Who knows what will come of this, but the call was total crap. The work that Richards and Smith put in to make this race and do a good job for NTB/Tire Kingdom,,, and then get jerked around like that. Total crap is what that was.

 

[luxexpress]

That totally sucks.

 

[Triple Nickel II]

Total crap is what that was.

NHRA

Nonsensical
Harassing
Rulemaking
Association

 

[*******]

NHRA

Nonsensical
Harassing
Rulemaking
Association

And my favorite that somebody else posted weeks ago.......

SFI

(S) Something
(F) Force
(I) Invented

 

[Keith Burgan]

And my favorite that somebody else posted weeks ago.......

SFI

(S) Something
(F) Force
(I) Invented

You wankers are really F....d up if you believe that Force is doing anything more than trying to make these cars safer. John Medlen has worked on the safety aspect of these cars for a year now and Force has more engineering resources at his disposal than every other drag race chassis builder combined. I am afraid the "if it looks right it must be OK" adage no longer applies at the current performance levels
The core issue in this thread has noting to do with the engineering of the cars, it simply relates to incompetency on the NHRA tech front, a problem that we have lived with for years.

Roo

 

[Nitrohaulic]

This is on classicfunnycarboard.

It all started after Gary Densham came over, looked over the car and walked away.

Then Paul added

Within 10 min of him leaving the pit we had the NHRA (never has reasonable answers) parade walk through.
When asked about it, Gary said I only asked if I was allowed to weld the bars in my "back up" car like the one's over there. Why did he wait so long to ask? Are we to believe that with a little over 40 min. to run the LAST session he had to know? Besides , if you are in the 15th spot and 12 gets DQ'd you are now in better position right?
He wasn't the fist to pull that #### and won't be the last.
The real shame is he ran good enough to stay in anyway

 

[coyotedale]

You wankers are really F....d up if you believe that Force is doing anything more than trying to make these cars safer. John Medlen has worked on the safety aspect of these cars for a year now and Force has more engineering resources at his disposal than every other drag race chassis builder combined. I am afraid the "if it looks right it must be OK" adage no longer applies at the current performance levels
The core issue in this thread has noting to do with the engineering of the cars, it simply relates to incompetency on the NHRA tech front, a problem that we have lived with for years.

Roo

Roo, you know i'm not trying to stir the pot, but the way this was handled was just awful. When you have one of the lead tech inspectors come to your shop to approve what was done and sign off on the chassis as "good to go", then go through tech at the track, and get signed off,,, it was just lousy to come around 45 min before you run and say you cannot make the next session as the upgrade was done wrong. The call was questionable, and the timing couldn't have been worse. And when you consider how much money was spent to be there and make the show, it stings that much more. There is no doubt that judgement calls are made by NHRA, but you cannot deny that they lack a level of consistency to suggest a favorable eye for some over others.

They could have at least let them have the time to make the correction and have them run at the end of the session, at least that way the car would have a chance to be properly prepared from both a safety standpoint, and a competition standpoint. If they had more than 2 rounds to qual, this wouldn't be the issue that it became. I'm sure all involved would agree.

 

[Keith Burgan]

Roo, you know i'm not trying to stir the pot, but the way this was handled was just awful. When you have one of the lead tech inspectors come to your shop to approve what was done and sign off on the chassis as "good to go", then go through tech at the track, and get signed off,,, it was just lousy to come around 45 min before you run and say you cannot make the next session as the upgrade was done wrong. The call was questionable, and the timing couldn't have been worse. And when you consider how much money was spent to be there and make the show, it stings that much more. There is no doubt that judgement calls are made by NHRA, but you cannot deny that they lack a level of consistency to suggest a favorable eye for some over others.

They could have at least let them have the time to make the correction and have them run at the end of the session, at least that way the car would have a chance to be properly prepared from both a safety standpoint, and a competition standpoint. If they had more than 2 rounds to qual, this wouldn't be the issue that it became. I'm sure all involved would agree.

Exactly my point Dale. I don't care how Olson found out about Paul's car, he just handled the situation badly in light of the fact that it had been inspected twice by NHRA personnel. The entire tech deal has gone downhill in the last couple of years and the number of incorrect things in the printed rule book is amazing. I guess that they do not have anyone competent to proof read it before it goes to press. I constanly hear of bogus interpretations of the rules by divisional tech guys, some of which put car owners to unjustified expense to rectify something that is not a problem.
Last year I got a call from Dickie Venables regarding the tail lamp opening area on Tony P's Impala. I guess that someone else at the event had complained and we were forced to show the tech guy how to measure something that was not a simple rectangle. The rule says 100 sq inches is legal and we made them just over 99 and they looked larger than the opposition's deal. It all worked out in the end but the team had to show the tech guy how to do his job.

Roo

 

[coyotedale]

then I guess we are on the same page.

I certainly understand how Bill Miller felt during pre season testing.

 

[Ugly one]

If JFR wasn't bending the rules to begin with, we wouldn't be having this discussion now.

Roo, mark this day on your calender, I agree with you. The tech dept must be reading an earlier version of Green Eggs & Ham than must of us.

 

[Keith Burgan]

Since posting yesterday I have called a few people and it seems that the story is a little different under the surface.
Densham had wanted to update his chassis the same way that Paul's was done and when he saw the car at Gainesville he asked Dan Olson why he had not been allowed to do the same thing and that set the debacle in motion.
On the subject of the way Smith's car was done a very senior and well respected crew chief told me that as he understood the situation P Smith had made enquiries as to how to do the upgrade and was told the correct proceedure (bolted at four places). As we know the deal was welded and an evidently green or rookie tech guy signed off on it at the shop. The problem was then compounded when nobody paid attention when the car was teched at the track. I would guess that Olson's reaction to the situation was predicated on the fact that Smith had been informed of the correct and legal way to make the change well in advance of the event.
This is all second hand info but comes from people that I have known for 20 years or more and trust.

Roo

 

[hellfirejim]

Since posting yesterday I have called a few people and it seems that the story is a little different under the surface.
Densham had wanted to update his chassis the same way that Paul's was done and when he saw the car at Gainesville he asked Dan Olson why he had not been allowed to do the same thing and that set the debacle in motion.
On the subject of the way Smith's car was done a very senior and well respected crew chief told me that as he understood the situation P Smith had made enquiries as to how to do the upgrade and was told the correct proceedure (bolted at four places). As we know the deal was welded and an evidently green or rookie tech guy signed off on it at the shop. The problem was then compounded when nobody paid attention when the car was teched at the track. I would guess that Olson's reaction to the situation was predicated on the fact that Smith had been informed of the correct and legal way to make the change well in advance of the event.
This is all second hand info but comes from people that I have known for 20 years or more and trust.

Roo

Assuming that is true and I have no reason to doubt it as it sounds very reasonable, it even more points out the lack of competency of the tech department. If these are the people who are entrusted to enforce the rules then don't you think it would be a good idea to make sure they actually understand them? I am just saying....
jim

jim

 

[Keith Burgan]

If JFR wasn't bending the rules to begin with, we wouldn't be having this discussion now.

Kevin,
this will probably piss you off but I would suggest that you dig a little deeper beyond the sensationalist stories that heve been written on various web sites and boards. There is a lot more to this whole issue than has been printed and most of the articles have been very one sided. It does not take long in a conversation with John Medlen to realize that there are some serious issues in the area of tubing and tires that need to be addressed and I am not talking about the heat treated tubing.

Roo

 

[coyotedale]

Kevin,
this will probably piss you off but I would suggest that you dig a little deeper beyond the sensationalist stories that heve been written on various web sites and boards. There is a lot more to this whole issue than has been printed and most of the articles have been very one sided. It does not take long in a conversation with John Medlen to realize that there are some serious issues in the area of tubing and tires that need to be addressed and I am not talking about the heat treated tubing.

Roo

Roo, I just posted on the classic fc board a reasonable question, from the outside perspective. If you can check it out, and P/M me if you want. I am interested in really knowing what the what/why/when of things reagarding what is wrong with what has been a fairly standard design on the chassis.

 

[Nitrohaulic]

You'd think a "green" or "rookie" tech guy would be one of the sharpest knives?

I've had old tech guys give me the most trouble. An example is one who didn't "like" the amount of rubber heater hose I'd used to route my bracket dragster's water from the pump back to it's radiator. He started quoting, as if out of the rulebook, about "No more than 12 inches of rubber line, for connection purposes only." I finished the quote with "Except for NHRA accepted woven pushlock." The section he was quoting was about fuel lines, not water lines. Instead of an apology for misapplying rules, I got "Well, I can always just DEEM the car to be unsafe." I said "Well, we need to go up to the tower and have a talk with management, because you have a LOT of cars that need to be DEEMED to be unsafe here."

I still ran hard water line on the car just to try to get along. Didn't work.

 

[Ugly one]

Kevin,
this will probably piss you off but I would suggest that you dig a little deeper beyond the sensationalist stories that heve been written on various web sites and boards. There is a lot more to this whole issue than has been printed and most of the articles have been very one sided. It does not take long in a conversation with John Medlen to realize that there are some serious issues in the area of tubing and tires that need to be addressed and I am not talking about the heat treated tubing.

Roo

My skin is alot thicker than that.