Antron OK after round 1 accident

[Al smith]

Like Virgil said... If its cutting through 5- 5/8" studs like butter, what kind of tether is going to keep it on the car with that much energy being exerted tearing it off the car?

And why would the tether need to keep the wheel attached to the hub? Once the wheel studs are sheared the drivetrain is no longer imparting torque to the wheel. All that the tether needs to do is keep the wheel from leaving the wreckage. Anyone familiar with fall protection safety gear can show you a bundled shock absorbing lanyard that plays out during a fall to protect the wearer from a sudden fall arrest injury. You can do something similar with a tether folding and binding it three ply inside the live axle tube. If in the event the wheel leaves the hub the tether can play out 3 or 4 feet and at least keep the tire/wheel going in the same direction the wreckage is. There are families of material available that are in fact stronger than steel


ETA, and as far as the video taken by a spectator, Really, The families don't need to see that. There is really nothing served by broadcasting gore over the internet. You agree to that when you buy your ticket. Read the stub, Just be thankful NHRA doesn't enforce its rights all the time.

 

[J]

NHRA doesn't want to show respect, they want to cover their butts. I've been at this for a fair chunk of time too. I'm also into photography and photographers rights. When I see the NHRA abusing a copyright claim to get a video yanked that pisses me off. The person that shot that vid owns the copyright, not NHRA.

U nailed it the 1st sentence.

 

[Raconteur]

NHRA doesn't want to show respect, they want to cover their butts. I've been at this for a fair chunk of time too. I'm also into photography and photographers rights. When I see the NHRA abusing a copyright claim to get a video yanked that pisses me off. The person that shot that vid owns the copyright, not NHRA.

Brent, please press this "abuse" issue with NHRA Communications Department. I don't care what you think the motives are.

If you are shooting video, which the rights are retained by NHRA and ESPN/Disney, good luck to you unless you are shooting over the fence from outside the property.

I'll leave it at this:

Broadcasts and other rights

The NHRA exclusively and in perpetuity own any and all rights to broadcast, transmit, film, tape, capture, overhear, photograph, collect or record by any means, process, medium or device (including but not limited to television, cable television, radio, pay-per-view, closed circuit television, satellite signal, digital signal, film productions, audiotape productions, transmissions over the Internet, public and private online services authorized by NHRA.

Got Lawyers?

 

[yoda]

Why do they keep saying she died at the hospital?

Because she did Jeremy

 

[Surfer Ed]

NHRA owns the rights to anything I overhear? I bet even having this conversation is a violation of some copyright in their opinion.

 

[yoda]

5" thick steel cable.

 

[Mooseman]

Going back to what I said about the tire and wheel and tension and everything. You would have to look at similer stuff with a tether cable of any kind. Its one thing for a cable to be able to support so and so amount of weight for so and so amount of time on some crane but can it support the inertia of a wheel very suddenly coming off and putting an awfull lot of strain on that cable in a very sudden time.

 

[Al smith]

Going back to what I said about the tire and wheel and tension and everything. You would have to look at similer stuff with a tether cable of any kind. Its one thing for a cable to be able to support so and so amount of weight for so and so amount of time on some crane but can it support the inertia of a wheel very suddenly coming off and putting an awfull lot of strain on that cable in a very sudden time.

http://www.nitromater.com/nhra/24903-antron-ok-after-round-1-accident-13.html#post237658

 

[.]

Brent, please press this "abuse" issue with NHRA Communications Department. I don't care what you think the motives are.

If you are shooting video, which the rights are retained by NHRA and ESPN/Disney, good luck to you unless you are shooting over the fence from outside the property.

I'll leave it at this:

Broadcasts and other rights

The NHRA exclusively and in perpetuity own any and all rights to broadcast, transmit, film, tape, capture, overhear, photograph, collect or record by any means, process, medium or device (including but not limited to television, cable television, radio, pay-per-view, closed circuit television, satellite signal, digital signal, film productions, audiotape productions, transmissions over the Internet, public and private online services authorized by NHRA.

Got Lawyers?

Like I've said several times now, just because NHRA claims they own the copyright does not make it so. The general rule of law, despite what an association, sanctioning body, etc., claims, is that the person who shot the pictures or video is the copyright owner. A blanket statement like NHRA slaps on the back of their tickets is usually laughed at in court. I can claim I'm the president, that doesn't mean I am.

And even if NHRA did own the copyright to a certain video or picture, there's still "fair use" which allows for somebody to use another persons copyrighted work for various reason such as commentary, criticism and/or because it is newsworthy. Antron's crash is certainly newsworthy and it's certainly being discussed, both of which are factors in determining "fair use" of a copyrighted work.

 

[yoda]

And why would the tether need to keep the wheel attached to the hub? Once the wheel studs are sheared the drivetrain is no longer imparting torque to the wheel. All that the tether needs to do is keep the wheel from leaving the wreckage. Anyone familiar with fall protection safety gear can show you a bundled shock absorbing lanyard that plays out during a fall to protect the wearer from a sudden fall arrest injury. You can do something similar with a tether folding and binding it three ply inside the live axle tube. If in the event the wheel leaves the hub the tether can play out 3 or 4 feet and at least keep the tire/wheel going in the same direction the wreckage is. There are families of material available that are in fact stronger than steel


ETA, and as far as the video taken by a spectator, Really, The families don't need to see that. There is really nothing served by broadcasting gore over the internet. You agree to that when you buy your ticket. Read the stub, Just be thankful NHRA doesn't enforce its rights all the time.

I am familiar with fall protection devices Al- we use them in the industry I work in. You are ABSOLUTLY onto something there as far as a teathering system that deploys from the live axle tube. Seriously- get this idea down on paper and present it to SOMEBODY. It's got some merit, and right now, I'll bet there are quite a few more doors open to investigate some good suggestions.

 

[J]

Because she did Jeremy

I beg to differ,witnesses says she was dead at the track,according to people on here that had friends there that confirmed that.

 

[Sean D, shondoo]

Because she did Jeremy

I've actually read it both ways, Martin. What I've heard on more than one occasion over the years from more than one track owner is that in the event of a death, the facility is immediately shut down pending investigation. However, if the individual is transported to a hospital prior to being officially pronounced dead, that particular rule doesn't necessarily apply.

I'm not saying that was the case in this particular situation, but it's not only happened before (not necessarily saying at a National Event), it's also not inconveivable for the brass at NHRA to make sure this was the case for the sake of the event not being stopped.

Anybody else have any solid information on how that actually works?

Sean D

 

[Raconteur]

Like I've said several times now, just because NHRA claims they own the copyright does not make it so. The general rule of law, despite what an association, sanctioning body, etc., claims, is that the person who shot the pictures or video is the copyright owner. A blanket statement like NHRA slaps on the back of their tickets is usually laughed at in court. I can claim I'm the president, that doesn't mean I am.

And even if NHRA did own the copyright to a certain video or picture, there's still "fair use" which allows for somebody to use another persons copyrighted work for various reason such as commentary, criticism and/or because it is newsworthy. Antron's crash is certainly newsworthy and it's certainly being discussed, both of which are factors in determining "fair use" of a copyrighted work.

I suggest that you become the test case for fighting this issue!

Get out your wallet, since posting on an Internet Bulletin Board is not the way to right what you see as an grievous injustice. NHRA's show is NHRA's show, not yours because you purchased a ticket.

Ultimately, it is picking pepper out of rabbit droppings. (G-rated version)

 

[yoda]

I've actually read it both ways, Martin. What I've heard on more than one occasion over the years from more than one track owner is that in the event of a death, the facility is immediately shut down pending investigation. However, if the individual is transported to a hospital prior to being officially pronounced dead, that particular rule doesn't necessarily apply.

I'm not saying that was the case in this particular situation, but it's not only happened before (not necessarily saying at a National Event), it's also not inconveivable for the brass at NHRA to make sure this was the case for the sake of the event not being stopped.

Anybody else have any solid information on how that actually works?

Sean D

As much juice as we believe the NHRA carries, I just don't see them having enough power to be able to get a Medical Examiner or Trama Unit to falsify T.O.D. to prevent it from becoming a criminal case... Too much "real" press got the details from powers that be that WERE NOT NHRA...

 

[Dave]

As much juice as we believe the NHRA carries, I just don't see them having enough power to be able to get a Medical Examiner or Trama Unit to falsify T.O.D. to prevent it from becoming a criminal case... Too much "real" press got the details from powers that be that WERE NOT NHRA...

JFK was pronounced dead 45 mins after his brain was blown out of his head. T.O.D. is negotiable. Darrell Russell didn't "die" until he got to the hospital in St. Louis. Dale Earnhardt wasn't killed as soon as he hit the wall at Daytona, he "died" 40 mins later in the hospital across the street.

 

[The Counterfeiter]

I am familiar with fall protection devices Al- we use them in the industry I work in. You are ABSOLUTLY onto something there as far as a teathering system that deploys from the live axle tube. Seriously- get this idea down on paper and present it to SOMEBODY. It's got some merit, and right now, I'll bet there are quite a few more doors open to investigate some good suggestions.

Yes, Al has some excellent ideas. I doubt anyone else here has detailed knowledge of the materials available. Have several friends who ARE rocket scientists at Honeywell (and huge racing fans) and a customer who has multiple PhDs from MIT and is a consultant on exotic materials for the Dillon Minigun. Should be interesting to see what they think about the feasibility of this concept.

If anyone else has a solution based on facts and science that might work,
I'd love to hear about it.

 

[Sean D, shondoo]

As much juice as we believe the NHRA carries, I just don't see them having enough power to be able to get a Medical Examiner or Trama Unit to falsify T.O.D. to prevent it from becoming a criminal case... Too much "real" press got the details from powers that be that WERE NOT NHRA...

Well, like I said, I'm not necessarily saying it happened in this case.

But what you said does beg the question.........just who is on-hand at a National Event as far as medical people are concerned? Are there actual doctors? You mentioned medical examiners, but I'm curious if there are only paramedics on-hand, are they actually certified/qualified to officially make such a call?

Not trying to stir the pot, I'm just curious because I know this type of thing has happened on the local level. The fact of the matter is, just like Jeremy said, there are numerous folks that reported that she was gone before leaving the grounds.

Sean D

 

[Mooseman]

Hey while on the topic of wheels in other motorsports where they change wheels and tires alot is the single nut hubs and wheels just a thing to make it quicker to change whats the strength differance there?

 

[.]

I suggest that you become the test case for fighting this issue!

Get out your wallet, since posting on an Internet Bulletin Board is not the way to right what you see as an grievous injustice. NHRA's show is NHRA's show, not yours because you purchased a ticket.

Ultimately, it is picking pepper out of rabbit droppings. (G-rated version)

I can't become a test case because it wasn't my video. If you'd been paying attention you'd already know that! That's why I'd love to find out who shot the video and uploaded it so I can put them in contact with the Electronic Frontier Foundation.

It wouldn't cost me anything more than a donation to the EFF. It might be NHRA's show, but it's not their pictures or videos when it's shot by a spectator. The copyright belongs to the person who shot it. That has been decided many times in court cases.

It might be picking pepper out of rabbit droppings to you but it's somebody's rights and property being falsely claimed by NHRA as theirs.


BTW, I just watched a video that was broadcast by ESPN that clearly shows the wreck from a perspective not shown on the ESPN2 broadcast yesterday. It was shot from behind the line and off to the right and looks like it came from a camera on a lift. It shows the full wreck and clearly shows the tire bouncing down the track, into the pits and over the trailers. Is NHRA going to go after ESPN for that one?

 

[jackass]

Like I've said several times now, just because NHRA claims they own the copyright does not make it so. The general rule of law, despite what an association, sanctioning body, etc., claims, is that the person who shot the pictures or video is the copyright owner. A blanket statement like NHRA slaps on the back of their tickets is usually laughed at in court. I can claim I'm the president, that doesn't mean I am.

And even if NHRA did own the copyright to a certain video or picture, there's still "fair use" which allows for somebody to use another persons copyrighted work for various reason such as commentary, criticism and/or because it is newsworthy. Antron's crash is certainly newsworthy and it's certainly being discussed, both of which are factors in determining "fair use" of a copyrighted work.

And thats why after several years TNN went out of the motorsports coverage busines when they were not alowed to air any footage from anyone of any kind on their raceday show from NASCAR events... and why ESPN was regulated back to only photos from the AP wire for their Sportscenter coverage of NASCAR for a few years.... this battle was raged and lost in the NBA and NFL years ago....motorsports is just now becoming mainline enough now that they enforce it in many cases....


you can film anything you like and play it at home for yourself..but you can not rebroadcast it..youtube counts as a rebroadcast.... plain and simple.. pay attention to the end of a NFL or NBA game.... same goes for those in attendance....


Last year a buddy of mines kid was shoved by an NBA player... most of the coverage on the net and tv was all from the AP wire.. when people posted their filmed versions from the game on youtube it was yanked by the NBA as well...(at a Magic game.. all unintentional but some still raised a stink even my buddy)


Also.. ESPN can tell you about both sides of this type deal... ask them about their ban from coverage of NASCAR events for a while... they could cover the events..but they were not allowed to broadcast andy video.. (they used still photos from the AP wire)...