...and they call it ENTRY LEVEL???
- Thread starter Tim5636sc
- Start date
Professor Dave
Nitro Member
Real racers use a brake pedal.
What about guys like Peter Biondo or Dan Fletcher or Jeg Coughlin who can race with a transbrake and a delay box or with a transbrake and no delay box or by foot braking? And that guy who drives my comp car can do all three as well. And I'm sure other people could add some names to this list.
Bob
Nitro Member
We've had this debate before right BOB?
I can't remember Tim. Maybe. Good to see you on the Mater. Hope we can get into more discussions
on this forum.
Bob
Nitro Member
Dave, how many times do I have to tell you that you're way too serious. Calm down. Damn.
You can train a chimp to drive with a transbrake and a delay box.
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Tim5636sc
Nitro Member
- Thread starter
- #49
Back in the good ol days..the expression was "DUCK"...but, with today's cars, the way they react...the LED BULBS...DAMM NEAR EVERYONE CAN GO RED..BY at least a Hundreth!!!! I wouldn't go as far as say that they are UNSKILLED....(ESPECIALLY SINCE I AM ONE). I'm just saying that The Delay box can help make the AVERAGE Driver...GOOD...(AT LEAST ON ONE RUN!) The Key, is IF YOU CAN REPEAT IT! THOSE ARE THE GUYS WHO WIN ON A DAILY BASIS!....See the Video "EDMOND RICHARDSON'S SUPER CLASS BASICS" for Reference!
Are you freakin' kidding!?!?!
Okay, Tim... you go grab any mook off the street and put him the car and try to use the delay box to where they can hit the tree consistently... betcha can't! Why? They don't have the skill or experience.
The reason delay boxes are necessary is because of the quality and advances in technology with regards to tires, converter, track prep, and chassis design.
The biggest area of improvement was in torque converters. Twenty years ago you couldn't buy an off the shelf converter and throw it into your backhalved ladderbar car and cut an .000 light.
Now you can call up any number of good converter manufacturers and order a converter, throw it into your tubed chassis 4-link car or dragster and with a little tuning go -.025 red.
And a blind squirrel can find a nut once in a while too.
That's called skill!!
If you can't hit the tree consistently, you're not a "good" driver... in fact, you aren't even average!!
Tim5636sc
Nitro Member
- Thread starter
- #54
Greg:
I respect you very much, due to the fact that I TOTALLY UNDERSTAND HOW DIFFICULT IT IS TO "CONSISTANTLY" DRIVE A TOP COMP/SUPER ELIMINATOR/COMP CAR, and to win a championship against some of the best racers in the United States in Northern California. However, READ THE ENTIRE PARAGRAPH AND PLEASE THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU JUST WROTE: HERE...I'll help ya!
From Timmah:
"WITH A DELAY BOX, It takes away the "SKILL" and Timing of trying to cut a good light. You adjust your delay box to either your or your cars tendencies. It is very difficult for the human eye to see the light exactly the same way each time, and very difficult to let go of the button EXACTLY THE SAME WAY, but if a driver is consistant, IN THEIR STAGING...and in their Ergonomics of letting go of the button the same way at the same time, and the car reacts consistantly the same way, Then using a delay box WILL make a driver very competitive.
Tell me this...Are you a TOP BULB OR 2nd or 3rd Bulb Driver? I'm guessing that you are like me, and let the transbrake go AS SOON AS YOU SEE THE TOP BULB LIGHT! If that's the case, your simply REACTING to the Instant Flash of the light.
Now, Take your car, and put a 500ci Big Block and run A/DA in comp eliminator. After Years of Driving with the box, and training your EYES, BRAIN, RIGHT OR LEFT HAND, to all react to the INSTANT FLASH OF THE YELLOW LIGHT, without the Box, your gonna go -.130 to -.110 RED EVERY TIME! That's exactly what I was trying to do with John's car a few weeks ago. Try to LEARN how to race a 1000+ HP Dragster without a brake. I've got over 1,000 runs on DELAY BOX'S, and i'll tell you that it is very difficult to cut a "GREAT" lite without the use of the DELAY BOX to help. IT'S "TIMING" that I'm refering to. The TIMING is the issue! THE "SKILL" I am refering to, is the ability to TIME the release of the transbrake Perfectly so that you not only don't go red, but, cut a good light as well. THAT TAKES MORE "SKILL" than simply "REACTING" to a flash. That is why I think guys like RAMPY, TAYLOR, RICHARDSON, FLETCHER, and That Guy who drives Dave Ring's Comp Eliminator car..(which BTW DAVE...If Lee ever wants to walk away..I happen to know someone who will gladly fill in..
)are FREAKIN AMAZING Drivers! I Totally agree with you that SOME "MOOK" could not Consistantly cut good lights in a Top Comp car! But, take away your Personal feelings, and don't defend what you do for just a moment, think outside the box, and ask yourself this question. What is harder to do....React to a "FLASH" and let a timer help slow you down....OR...Do it all by yourself?
Your absolutely right Greg, after 120 Natl. events I haven't learned a F##kin thing about Drag racing! Thanks for setting me straight!
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Tim,... I Totally agree with you that SOME "MOOK" could not Consistantly cut good lights in a Top Comp car! But, take away your Personal feelings, and don't defend what you do for just a moment, think outside the box, and ask yourself this question. What is harder to do....React to a "FLASH" and let a timer help slow you down....OR...Do it all by yourself?
I'm not defending anything. The idea that a delay box or throttle-stop can make someone a good racer is just ludicrous.
I haven't done it in a while but I can bottom bulb race too. It takes getting used to again... kind of like riding a bicycle. Of course if you have never bottom bulb raced its going to take a little longer to get the hang of it. But because you already have the skills to hit the tree, you're going to adapt quicker than someone who has never raced ever could... the problem being you have to slow yourself down... or find your spot.
It is also a matter of having the car set-up differently than you would for a top-bulbing or pro tree racing. You don't have a bottom bulb car set up with a "soft-hit" converter that will reduce your reaction time .020-.030... bigger front tires, a different type of button... or footbraking, using a blinder... so on.
You know what I'm talking about... it's the ones that have never made a competitive lap that think they are experts because they read it in ND and watched from the stand sthat don't know what either of us are really talking about.
Joe,Your absolutely right Greg, after 120 Natl. events I haven't learned a F##kin thing about Drag racing! Thanks for setting me straight!
You take great pictures and you're a true fan. But unfortunately it seems the only thing you know about running a competitive car in one of the "box" categories is what you've read.
As I noted earlier...
The "boxes" haven't really changed since the first ones were installed. Yet the cars have gotten so incredibly consistent. So the idea that "boxes" are the reason is a false one.
Improved effeciency in the engines, torque converters that are light years ahead of what they were just 7-8 years ago, better tire compounds, better chassis designs, and improved track prep have all been the contributing factors to why the cars are so consistent these days... not the delay boxes or throttle stops.
Also, the knowledge level that is available to each and every racer out there is vastly more wide spread than it was previously...
You may think I'm a dick but I'm just trying to pass on some of that knowledge. Ask yourself this, who wrote the article you read in ND and ask yourself how many races they run in a "box" car...
I may be a dick... but I'm also going to give you the straight scoop... no matter what class I run.
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Tim,
One other point to consider in this debate. We're talking about Pro tree racing too...
And you know that Pro Tree and Full tree box racing are exactly the same.
Funny story...
I won't mention who it was to protect their dignity, but a former world champ in one of the fuel categories thought it would be fun to make some laps in a Super Comp car. Here's a guy who made his living driving a fuel car and winning... a great driver. He tried a couple times but was absolutely befuddled on how to get the S/C car staged, up on the converter, and launch the car with any close to a respectable light.
Skills are skill... they just aren't all the same in every category.
One other point to consider in this debate. We're talking about Pro tree racing too...
And you know that Pro Tree and Full tree box racing are exactly the same.
Funny story...
I won't mention who it was to protect their dignity, but a former world champ in one of the fuel categories thought it would be fun to make some laps in a Super Comp car. Here's a guy who made his living driving a fuel car and winning... a great driver. He tried a couple times but was absolutely befuddled on how to get the S/C car staged, up on the converter, and launch the car with any close to a respectable light.
Skills are skill... they just aren't all the same in every category.
Bob
Nitro Member
Tim, I hope you're sitting down because I agree with everything you say. The box will improve your AVERAGE reaction time. Like you, I have run both but I prefer footbrake.
I started drag racing in 1960 and I still manage to win a few events a year so I do have a little experience and this is what I base my opinion on. You're dead on in this thread. My opinion. Good post.
I started drag racing in 1960 and I still manage to win a few events a year so I do have a little experience and this is what I base my opinion on. You're dead on in this thread. My opinion. Good post.
Terry
Nitro Member
A question Tim--do you remember when the late Ben Raymond had that quote "I'm your Huckleberry!" on the rear spoiler of his SG Camaro?...O come on John..."THAT'S JUST MY GAME!"
GOD I LOVE THAT MOVIE!!!!
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