...and they call it ENTRY LEVEL??? (2 Viewers)

[stanman]

...The box will improve your AVERAGE reaction time. ...

Bob,

The box will only improve your average reaction time in one of two ways:

1. Your personal reaction time is already consistent enough that you can set the box accordingly based on your car's reactions time and varying lighting or track conditions.

2. You are a freakin' Houdini and can predict how much your personal reaction time is going to change and make changes to the delay box accordingly.

Number 2 is highly unlikely so you have have to a very consistent personal reaction time in order to use the box as a tool to make your lights consistent.

If someone hits the tree inconsistently, the delay box isn't going to make them more consistent. If you think it will please explain how!?

 

[topdigger]

"The box will improve your AVERAGE reaction time. "



I better send my box back in for servicing. I used to average between a .007 and .015 lights. been havin a bit of a struggle lately with being .00x then being -.00x and then .040+ . That dang box in ruining my averages.

I just went .009 on the PRACTICE tree.I think PRACTICE (perfect practice for that matter) makes for improved AVERAGE reaction times.The box ain't lettin go of the button.

 

[Mike]

Dave, dead on, if they can drive, they can drive. Box or no box, 3 amber or pro, they can drive.

 

[stanman]

Dave, dead on, if they can drive, they can drive. Box or no box, 3 amber or pro, they can drive.

Without a doubt!

The box don't make them a better driver!

 

[Dave]

If the box doesn't make you more consistent and cut better lights, why does everyone invest the money to have one?

How many super class races have been won by someone without a box?

How many super class races will ever be won by someone without a box?

My guess on both of those would be close to zero.

You can just look at racers that run with and without a box, ex. stock and super comp, and see the difference. They are much more consistent and have better lights with the box.

Having said that, I do believe that the good drivers would still excel without the box if nobody had one. Actually, I think they would do better than they do now. I believe the boxes have made marginal leavers into good leavers and have in effect tightened things up on the starting line.

 

[stanman]

If the box doesn't make you more consistent and cut better lights, why does everyone invest the money to have one?

How many super class races have been won by someone without a box?

How many super class races will ever be won by someone without a box?

My guess on both of those would be close to zero.

You can just look at racers that run with and without a box, ex. stock and super comp, and see the difference. They are much more consistent and have better lights with the box.

Having said that, I do believe that the good drivers would still excel without the box if nobody had one. Actually, I think they would do better than they do now. I believe the boxes have made marginal leavers into good leavers and have in effect tightened things up on the starting line.

Dave,

If someone has to answer those questions for you then you really don't understand the cars or how they are set up!

Comparing a Stocker to a Super Comp car is like comparing a Pro Stocker to the a Funny car. Not to mention they run on completely different trees. The reason the lights are more consistent is because the of the car, not the box.

I give up...

You guys with your preconceived ideas about delay boxes don't care about the facts or the differences in the cars or the advances in other areas that have improved things. You just want some other reason to bash the guy and guys that drive cars with delay boxes... some excuse other than the car and the driver for why things are so competitive.

... I believe the boxes have made marginal leavers into good leavers and have in effect tightened things up on the starting line.

Just what do you consider to be a good leaver?

Because a marginal leaver in most bracket and super category racers' opinions is someone who can't hit the tree the same every time to save their life. And a delay box can't make you more consistent!!

Why is that point so hard to grasp?

 

[Mike]

Dave, everyone has one because most guys and gals can go red no problem with todays cars and equipment. Make the driver perfect? No.

 

[stanman]

English understands... and all he does is sit in the annoucers' booth and run his mouth all day long... LOL

Who loves ya, Mikey? Will we see you at Thanksgiving where all us marginal drivers will be extraordinary because we have a delay box?

 

[Earl]

Well I would welcome all the SC/SG guys if they threw away the boxes and joined us lowly Pro "Bottom Bulb" racers. Having said that, Pro racing is getting to where if you have a fast reacting car, you have to have a "Delay Transbrake Button" to be consistant. So I guess it never will end until NHRA does away with all that stuff. But we all know that will never happen, whole industries have been built on it.

Anyway, I am proud to be a "Bottom Bulb" racer. It is a challange for me. I know better than to try to compete with guys like SR. They are the best at what they do. The racing might not be that fun to watch, but understanding the skill level and car set up it takes to run like that is something to be appreachated.

Bottom Bulb Earl....

 

[stanman]

Earl,

I'd love to have another "bottom bulb" car and have been toying with the idea of building something... I just can't afford it right now. Plus I don't have room for another car... LOL

 

[Mike]

Earl, I'd take that bet. I started bracket racing in the late 60's and I've got no problem with bottom bulb. I didnt become a button racer till 87(LOL)




Greg, I'd buy 2 boxes(LOL) Probably wont be there. My Mom had a stroke last month and she is living with us. Barbara is her caretaker(thank you to my wonderful wife) so the chances of getting away arent real good.

 

[Earl]

Remember guys, you can go faster racing in Pro than you can in SC/SG... Plus it is all out until the 1000' mark. Almost like real drag racing

Earl

 

[Joker]

Well since racing with boxes is so easy and everyone can cut a .000 light and run dead on, I think everyone should buy one and set there car up with a box and go to the next bracket race and see how fast you get your ass handed to you and then let us know just how easy it was afterall.

 

[Husky]

You can say the same thing about your beloved fuel classes. Take the clutch timers and data recorders and computers away and just where would they be? HUM

You're comparing WWII with a spat with the Mrs's.
Like the man said, 3 races and time for a beer run! Super classes are only fun for the racers who participate.

 

[Mike]

Mike, that is true of most sportsman class........

 

[Bob]

Bob,

The box will only improve your average reaction time in one of two ways:

1. Your personal reaction time is already consistent enough that you can set the box accordingly based on your car's reactions time and varying lighting or track conditions.

2. You are a freakin' Houdini and can predict how much your personal reaction time is going to change and make changes to the delay box accordingly.

Number 2 is highly unlikely so you have have to a very consistent personal reaction time in order to use the box as a tool to make your lights consistent.

If someone hits the tree inconsistently, the delay box isn't going to make them more consistent. If you think it will please explain how!?

You answered your own question Greg. And if you don't think a box will improve your average reaction times that's OK with me.

 

[scotty]

A lot of good points and information here. There are 2 parts to this picture that are being debated. I feel the consistency of the cars are definitely due to the advancements Greg stated. I can remember when running "dead-on" was huge. Now it seems much more frequent than 10 years ago in the Super categories and Stock/SS. I used to consider myself a decent "bottom bulb" guy but that was when "good" winning packages were 0.030 s. Now they are 0.010 or LESS!! I can't begin to imagine what the setup of the cars are now for those who consistently go in the money.

However, on the reaction time debate, I feel the delay box does help those who do not understand their car's setup intimately. For FULL tree racing, the adjustability of a delay box can help a racer find a staging/launch procedure that helps make them more consistent than they would be otherwise. Granted you still have to release the button, pay attention to temps, burnout, etc., but the box can help you find a method that works for you. I say this from personal experience where I had a friend who was a terrible bottom bulb racer. His car was set up well but he couldn't cut a light when under the gun...never. He got a delay box, learned how to use it, and after 2 races, bingo...he went to at least the semi's every race after that for the year. INSTANT hitter. When I asked him about how the delay box helped, he told me that leaving off the top bulb was so much easier for him than finding his "spot" on the tree. And if he was slower on a particular day, he didn't worry about adding air to his front tires, or trying to stage deeper, he just rolled the numbers of the box and went racing. He didn't win em all, he still had to learn to drive the stripe, but he said it definitely helped. He even figured out that as he got later into rounds he cut slower lights because he realized he staged the car shallower from nervousness. So the box enabled him to start becoming a better leaver/racer whereas he might never have been without it. Also once he started going rounds, he became more confident, and others started to fear him so there was that whole thing going on as well.

I don't know how much the box helps on pro tree racing, but full tree, I think it can help if you don't have the means to science out your staging process. It doesn't make your physical reaction time any more consistent (you are still you), but it can help make your staging/leave process more consistent. It won't make you a great racer like Rampy, Helms, Fletcher, Biondos, DeFranks, Richardsons, etc. but it can make you competitive and maybe that's all you need.

 

[Mike]

Scott, when Orange County 1st opened they had reaction times, nothing like todays but reaction times none the less, and the worst light it showed was a .019 so a lot of guys like myself would never even talk about anything worse than a .010 because you were late. In fact, if you didnt have a light that was double 0 something odds are you were going home.


Your friend is a good example of someone who just cant get the hang of the 3 amber tree and a box will help him but for the most part if you can race, you can race.

 

[scotty]

Your friend is a good example of someone who just cant get the hang of the 3 amber tree and a box will help him but for the most part if you can race, you can race.

Good point Mike. Great racers are great racers no matter what you stick them in. I remember when Jimmy Hughes was racing his 65 Chevelle (Betsy) and it ran 10.80s. He was in a lot of finals even back then, just like he is now, and I don't ever remember seeing a box in that car until he stepped up to Super.

 

[Bob]

A lot of good points and information here. There are 2 parts to this picture that are being debated. I feel the consistency of the cars are definitely due to the advancements Greg stated. I can remember when running "dead-on" was huge. Now it seems much more frequent than 10 years ago in the Super categories and Stock/SS. I used to consider myself a decent "bottom bulb" guy but that was when "good" winning packages were 0.030 s. Now they are 0.010 or LESS!! I can't begin to imagine what the setup of the cars are now for those who consistently go in the money.

However, on the reaction time debate, I feel the delay box does help those who do not understand their car's setup intimately. For FULL tree racing, the adjustability of a delay box can help a racer find a staging/launch procedure that helps make them more consistent than they would be otherwise. Granted you still have to release the button, pay attention to temps, burnout, etc., but the box can help you find a method that works for you. I say this from personal experience where I had a friend who was a terrible bottom bulb racer. His car was set up well but he couldn't cut a light when under the gun...never. He got a delay box, learned how to use it, and after 2 races, bingo...he went to at least the semi's every race after that for the year. INSTANT hitter. When I asked him about how the delay box helped, he told me that leaving off the top bulb was so much easier for him than finding his "spot" on the tree. And if he was slower on a particular day, he didn't worry about adding air to his front tires, or trying to stage deeper, he just rolled the numbers of the box and went racing. He didn't win em all, he still had to learn to drive the stripe, but he said it definitely helped. He even figured out that as he got later into rounds he cut slower lights because he realized he staged the car shallower from nervousness. So the box enabled him to start becoming a better leaver/racer whereas he might never have been without it. Also once he started going rounds, he became more confident, and others started to fear him so there was that whole thing going on as well.

I don't know how much the box helps on pro tree racing, but full tree, I think it can help if you don't have the means to science out your staging process. It doesn't make your physical reaction time any more consistent (you are still you), but it can help make your staging/leave process more consistent. It won't make you a great racer like Rampy, Helms, Fletcher, Biondos, DeFranks, Richardsons, etc. but it can make you competitive and maybe that's all you need.

I'll tell you a story Scott. I drive a dead stock Corvette. I do run DR's, bottom breather and I do my own tunes. The car runs within .01 consistently. I mean within .01 of my dial. I love the sandbaggers in the brackets. My point is that the electronics in a stock car is all you need these days. It does take a lot of practice to get the tune setup.

A .000 light is a .000 light. Doesn't matter if you come off a box or not. Takes a lot of seat time regardless of how you do it. Not many guys can cut consistent .005 lights off the brake. I see a lot of guys on the box do it consistently.