...and they call it ENTRY LEVEL??? (2 Viewers)

[Bob]

I knew it... can't argue the facts from an actual race so you disparage the racers.

BTW... those guys in Super Gas that had "a real problem" included a couple former World Champs and a few perrennial Top 10 players.

If they're cutting .030 lights they have a problem, don't care who they are. If you can't average .020 in footbrake you may as well stay home.

 

[stanman]

Are you coming to Fonata this weekend?

Nope... you know I don't travel for NHRA stuff anymore!

 

[stanman]

If they're cutting .030 lights they have a problem, ...

But the delay box is suppose to make everyone so much better!?!?

 

[Bob]

But the delay box is suppose to make everyone so much better!?!?

Greg, we have a difference of opinion. I have mine and you have yours. And I'm sure between us we probably have more time at the track than we would care to admit.

MY OPINION is that if I run a box and get enough seat time to set it up I'll average .005 or better. You go to any track and watch Super Pro or whatever the locals call it, and the final eliminations they'll both cut better than .005. I see it all the time.

 

[stanman]

The starting lines at the tracks out here aren't that consistent... not when your 60' times are changing .03-.04 from run to run. And it ain't the car or the way you stage...

 

[Reese]

Then let's compare the 3rd round of Super Gas and Super Stock from this last weekend's divisional at Hebron, OH...

Super Gas... a .030 average
Super Stock... a .029 average

What do you think of that!?!?

BTW... Super Comp was only a .024 average.

I am willing to bet that most of the Super Stock racers were using a long throw transbrake button, which is a delay device. Hopefully they will outlaw them next season.
I don't remember who said it but the best thing to happen to bracket racing is the torque converter.
I think a delay box will help even the average racer cut a light because it adjusts the way you look at the tree. I know 2 racers that drive the same car and all they do to adjust the car for each is change the numbers because 1 see the tree later than the other. Without the box, 1 driver have to leave when the bulb comes on and the other when the bulb goes off. That's just my opinion.

 

[stanman]

I don't remember who said it but the best thing to happen to bracket racing is the torque converter.

That would have been me!

You're the first person to acknowledge that fact. Torque converters are the biggest reason by far as to why today's cars are so much more consistent and are able to hit the tree so consistently too.

In the "old days", small changes in the density altitude could affect your reaction time because even the slightest change in hp/torque so greatly affected the way the torque converter worked.

If not for the torque converters it wouldn't matter what you did with the box, you'd be all over the place.

I'm torn on the long throw button issue...

On one side I can accept that it is a delay device.

But on the other it is a mechanical device that is still directly controlled by the driver... that's to say, when the driver lets go of the button the car launches. There is nothing delaying the launch once the button is released.

 

[Reese]

But on the other it is a mechanical device that is still directly controlled by the driver... that's to say, when the driver lets go of the button the car launches. There is nothing delaying the launch once the button is released.

You are right, it is a mechanical device and that is why the long throw button is legal.
A lot of racers believe that getting rid of the button would stop some racers from winning often. I don't think that would solve the problem(just like they thought that getting rid of deep staging would do but the drivers that deep staged are still winning).
To see just how important torque converters are, just look at their 60' times, I don't care when you let go of the button, they will be the same. But just like you said, if you had a junk torque converter, the best delay box in the world would not help you be consistent.

 

[Bob]

I think some people think you can react quicker with your thumb or finger. I've never tried it and I don't know if they're right or wrong. We'll have that decision made for us.

 

[stanman]

... A lot of racers believe that getting rid of the button would stop some racers from winning often. I don't think that would solve the problem ...

You got that right! The people who are getting their asses kick on a regular basis and bitching about the long throw buttons now, are the same ones that were getting their asses kick before... they just have something new to bitch about now.

There are groups of people who complain about the same people winning all the time. They go out and they get some new innovation or the rules changed that they think will "even" the playing field for them. Then when they continue to lose and the same people keep winning they blame the new innovations or the new rules... instead of themselves!

 

[Mike]

Ditto what Greg said.

 

[Dave]

Then let's compare the 3rd round of Super Gas and Super Stock from this last weekend's divisional at Hebron, OH...

Super Gas... a .030 average
Super Stock... a .029 average

What do you think of that!?!?

BTW... Super Comp was only a .024 average.

I just ran a few numbers. A little bigger sample than yours taken from various divisional and national events I was at this year.

SG - 2047 runs
SC - 2218 runs
STK - 1634 runs
SS - 1756 runs

Average RT including red lights:
SG - .028
SC - .028
STK - .038
SS - .038

Ave RT excluding red lights:
SG - .029
SC - .030
STK - .048
SS - .046

Redlights per class, ave red light and percentage
SG - 44 -.029 2%
SC - 184 -.022 8%
STK - 229 -.035 14%
SS - 251 -.035 14%