Alternative tracks for Winters and Finals (1 Viewer)

[Jon Asher]

This is probably long after everyone’s forgotten this thread, but nevertheless…

I don’t think VMP is destined for a national event at any time in the near future. The regional audience is now “confused” by having attended NHRA races with their superstars. They were then treated to a far less professional show – without Funny Cars – under IHRA sanction. And now they’re back to NHRA. It also doesn’t help that the area is severely financially strapped.

Regarding Karl’s statement about bringing money to Pomona when the neighbors hate us, the reality is that those bedroom communities were actually there before the drag strip. Yes, not before the Fairgrounds, but before they began racing there. And today’s cars are considerably louder than they were back in 1960, so at least part of their ire is understandable.

During the Finals I had breakfast a couple of miles from the track and was amazed at how loud it was – with sportsman cars.

Technically, Russell Vest is right about the town thing, but maybe we should also think about something else. Remember when NHRA made a very big deal about how much money a national event brought in to the local economy? They no longer do that. Why? Because the sportsman racers who once filled area hotels to the bursting point, who forced hour-long lines at restaurants and sometimes even ate a local McDonald’s out of burgers, no longer do so. They’re all out at the track in their motorhomes, which is a far better deal for them than hoteling it ever was. But the bottom line is our impact on local markets isn’t what it once was. The major beneficiaries of a national event these days are gas stations, convenience stores and local grocery stores.

Sadly, Jay Eshbach, you (and me too!) are no longer the ideal demographic for drag racing. Unless we can find some way of enticing younger fans out to the track the sport is destined for a slow, lingering death. It won’t be because no one wants to race or no one wants to watch. It will be because not enough people will be willing to buy tickets – because they’re so darn old they can’t even remember why they drove to Pomona in the first place.

Yeah, they’ll be the ones saying, “Did I drive out here or did someone give me a ride? Does anyone know where I live?”

DeVallion, this issue may no longer be an issue.

Jon Asher

 

[D]

I hope so, it would be silly to see more transporters on low boys.

S/F
D

 

[PiPPi]

The big shows for me now are CHHR and March Meet.

And of course Santa Pod

Regards
PiPPi
http://HarleyDrags.com

 

[Dry Hop Doc]

Re: J. Asher's post ...

All good points, Jon. But how in Hades do we get the young'uns to show interest in drag racing?

I know I've failed.

I've sat perplexed as five nephews sniffed condescendingly at my attempts to drag them out to the digs. You'd have thought I was trying to get them to do algebra or something. And I can only come up with these two answers: waaay too many other distractions, and a huge change in the way kids view cars in general.

Cars are now simply conveyance, something that used to only apply to the ladies back in my day. Second, the "always on" nature of the Web and cellphones, etc. have infected nearly everyone under the age of 25 with a raging case of ADHD.

Another thing I've noticed with younger citizens is they'd rather "play" a sport on an XBox or a computer as opposed to actually learn how to do the thing the game emulates. Which, to me, is the epitome of laziness and lack of engagement.

You couple the above with the worst economy any of us have ever seen, and you can see why the sport is headed for extinction.

So what the heck can we do? I'd ask all interested Maters to throw their suggestions into the ring. Let's see what we can come up with folks.

Doc

 

[clwill]

Marc, I disagree with your characterization of kids. While it's not to the same level as it was in the 50s and 60s, kids do like cars, and they are still working extra shifts at McDonald's to put money into their cars. There are hundreds of thousands of kids street racing, and drifting, and watching the Fast and Furious. Those kids are reachable.

IMHO, we have to start by moving in their direction, not by demanding they come to us. Here are some ideas:

• Absorbing and then squishing the import drags was a bad thing. We need to find a way to get them back. As exhibition classes at national events to start with, maybe, but we need to get them back.
• Take the "don't race on the street" message out stronger. They are out there racing on the street. Work with the police to have them chase the kids to the track. Like Wally did back in the beginning.
• We need to update the rules in some of the classes to allow these cars to be competitive. All the emphasis on carburetor, push rod, big block V8s is completely lost on kids who only know EFI, OHC, inline 4s with turbos. There are two kinds of cars in TAD, is that a model that will work for some of these cars?
• We all have to stop turning our collective nose up at the "ricers" and need to find the cool in their cars. No they aren't rear wheel drive big blocks, and they sound funny, but some of them are pretty trick.
• Some of the stars need to get on board with getting these kids involved. Have John Force and some other stars do promos with these cars, have them do a side-by-side race in a couple and genuinely show interest.

Plain and simple: people love what they grew up with. Kids today aren't growing up with big classic Detroit muscle. It's Honda and Mitsubishi. You may not like them, but they do. And they race them, just not at NHRA races. That's a shame.

 

[DrRocket]

I agree with Christopher. We have to get past our innate dislike of "rice burners."

My oldest son owned a '90 Eclipse that was VERY heavily massaged. He ran it on E85, and it made LOTS of power.

It was a rocket ship. I've got a picture of the engine here somewhere.

Ah! Here it is!

Bigger turbo. Huge intercooler. Bigger injectors. He built his own engine management system.

I helped him quite a bit, plus I painted that valve cover for him.

This thing was bada$$!

Rockfalls Raceway, Al Corda's strip has regular "Imports only" weekends.

 

[my friends call me Zappy]

Yer right, we need to welcome these cars if we expect to win their owners.

 

[Dry Hop Doc]

Marc, I disagree with your characterization of kids. While it's not to the same level as it was in the 50s and 60s, kids do like cars, and they are still working extra shifts at McDonald's to put money into their cars. There are hundreds of thousands of kids street racing, and drifting, and watching the Fast and Furious. Those kids are reachable.

IMHO, we have to start by moving in their direction, not by demanding they come to us. Here are some ideas:

• Absorbing and then squishing the import drags was a bad thing. We need to find a way to get them back. As exhibition classes at national events to start with, maybe, but we need to get them back.
• Take the "don't race on the street" message out stronger. They are out there racing on the street. Work with the police to have them chase the kids to the track. Like Wally did back in the beginning.
• We need to update the rules in some of the classes to allow these cars to be competitive. All the emphasis on carburetor, push rod, big block V8s is completely lost on kids who only know EFI, OHC, inline 4s with turbos. There are two kinds of cars in TAD, is that a model that will work for some of these cars?
• We all have to stop turning our collective nose up at the "ricers" and need to find the cool in their cars. No they aren't rear wheel drive big blocks, and they sound funny, but some of them are pretty trick.
• Some of the stars need to get on board with getting these kids involved. Have John Force and some other stars do promos with these cars, have them do a side-by-side race in a couple and genuinely show interest.

Plain and simple: people love what they grew up with. Kids today aren't growing up with big classic Detroit muscle. It's Honda and Mitsubishi. You may not like them, but they do. And they race them, just not at NHRA races. That's a shame.

Christopher ... well stated, my man. You make some very cogent observations. I guess I just ended up with a half dozen lazy nephews.

Although I agree with some of what you say, how exactly are we going to do what you describe? What I mean is this: if we start catering to the four-banger set, aren't we going to lose us old guys with our taste for Detroit muscle? I, for one, cringe like someone's put fingernails to a chalkboard every time I hear one of those flatulent little cars fire up or launch. I need to work on that.

I guess the problem to overcome is the fact that drag racing will never be the way it used to be. It's going to take us old guys letting the new guard in, and the youngsters showing respect for the way things used to be.

That's going to be a tall order to fill. But I hope that everyone's love for things automotive will overcome this. If we can pull that off I believe drag racing will continue to grow for decades to come.

Doc

 

[clwill]

People already hate it when the Super class cars pull up, the haters are all over the place (even here). People complain about "coasting" and it not being real racing. But those classes are by far, the largest participant classes in NHRA. SC brings out well over 100 entries at most national events. There are haters for all forms of non-all-out racing (any kind of brackets), it's not "real racing", some of those haters are here on the Mater. There are haters for the Alky classes, they are rich guys toys. And so on.

I don't like the sound of the four-bangers that much either, but I'm 55 and the kids love them. And they put a lot of work into these cars. If you look them over, some are darn impressive. We have to get people to try to understand -- on both sides.

What I'm suggesting is that we get them out there. We try our damnedest to welcome them. Maybe a separate class, maybe just open up Stock or other classes and try to find them a home. Some people will welcome them, some (maybe you and me) will leave the area when they run, and others will surely hate. But we need to have them inside the tent pissing out, rather than outside the tent pissing in.

 

[Jon Asher]

Chris, the BBC, of all things, recently published the results of a survey of American young people, and the results were not encouraging when it came to their cars. I’ll be writing something on it shortly.

Please, everyone, try to remember the demographic of this board, which I continue to believe is not the demographic drag racing needs.

I’m not mad about four cylinder imports, but that’s what the young people are driving, so we need to welcome them and find a place for them to compete, if there isn’t already one out there.

This problem is exacerbated by the fact that almost everyone in management at NHRA is also outside the ideal demographic. For many of those individuals, making a real connection with the young people we need is all but impossible. That was evident with the fiasco that was Sport Compact racing. It was a short-lived phenomenon to begin with, but it wasn’t helped by the fact that the NHRA people in charge simply didn’t know, or bother to know, who they were dealing with. Guys wearing “polished” clothing and NHRA shirts just don’t mesh with kids with multi-hued hair, body piercings and tattoos.

They saw the NHRA people as unable to connect with who they are, and they were usually right. I overheard more than one NHRA person involved with that program make disparaging remarks about their own customers, so how could we be surprised when it failed?

We make a big deal out of a wheelstanding ’65 Coronet when it comes to the line – a car that’s almost 50 years old. And there are maybe 300 of them you might find in scrapyards around the country. What kid today can identify with a car like that? He can’t. He never saw one when it was new, and everything about it, from its engine to its suspension system is hopelessly out of date.

And yet, when a front wheel drive import comes to the line (I can’t even remember seeing one in the last year or so), it’s ignored, yet the performance it puts out might be really special. Too bad no one knows about it.

Chris is so right about our antiquated technology, and our antiquated thinking about cars with what we consider to be “small” engines. Unless you’re buying a “special” Camaro or Dodge, what you’re going to find is usually a four- or six-cylinder powerplant, so accept those, embrace those, and get those people out to the track.

Even the advertising used for the national events is outdated and even quaint. It no longer works. Kids have been hearing those same ads for years, and they don’t care and don’t respond.

The mention of the Super categories is also interesting, because they’re an audience-killer if I’ve ever seen one. This is not about disrespecting those racers. It’s about the show that they don’t put on. Do you think anyone wants to watch a car do a pathetic burnout, then launch for 30 feet and then “coast” so far down the track that when the engine comes back “on” no one even knows it?

Now, if you’re insulted by that, I’m sorry, but you can’t argue with facts, and the fact is that no one but the participants gives a rip about those classes because they are terminally boring to watch. The advent of throttle stops and timers did nothing to enhance the competition. All it did was line the pockets of the aftermarket people smart enough to come up those emotion- and fun-killing items.

Every single Super racer I’ve spoken with has admitted the cars are boring to watch, and has also admitted that he’d be happy to race without throttle stops and the other gizmos, but he can’t be competitive unless everyone removes that stuff. And it’s not going to happen, so we end up with cars going down the track that no one cares to watch.

If you were a 20-something guy with a slightly hopped up Honda, and were convinced to come out to the track, and the first thing you saw were the Super cars, how enthused would you be? And in today’s world, there’s no point in that guy waiting to see cars like his race, because they don’t, period.

When most of us started racing we thought, “Wow! That Chevy’s just like mine. I can make mine fast too.”

Yeah, well, where’s the Honda/Toyota/Nissan/BMW/Mercedes/Fiat/Volkswagen examples for that 20-something to emulate? They’re not there, and until those cars are racing – and a lot of them – we’re not going to get their automotive “peer group” out there as fans.

But hey, what do I know? If I knew anything I’d be in Glendora!

Jon Asher
Senior Editor
CompetitionPlus.com

 

[D]

Well said Mr Asher, I often thought that people missed the point with the import/sport compact folks. When gen X/Y came of age the last remaining pony cars were out of their reach because of high car payments and insurance premiums. They could afford to get a civic and build on it as their budget allowed. The Honda VTEC et al are they small block Chevy of the 90's and 00's.

S/F
D

 

[clwill]

Jon, please don't feel you're hurting the feelings of SC racers, because we've heard it all. We fully know and understand that we're "audience killers". Though you clearly have some misconceptions about the Super classes that I would like to straighten out some time, (such as it hasn't been about competition but only lining the vendors' pockets), that's not the issue here.

A large part of the issue is the conflict between audience and participation. Are we talking about increasing the size and age diversity of the fan base, or do we want to increase participation?. The two are NOT the same, and one does not automatically follow the other. I know both from personal experience and in talking with most of the people I race with, that the more you race yourself, the less interested you are in the NHRA traveling circus.

A part of this conflict is that NHRA is unique among sport (that I can think of) where amateurs and professionals compete on the same field, at the same event. You don't see them stop an NFL, MLB, NBA, game or even a golf or tennis match and say "We'll be back to the pros in a minute, but now here's the AA Everett Aquasox, followed by the Pee Wee league". I guarantee you, if you did, the stands would empty (except for the parents) and the concession stands would be lined up 10 deep.

Trust me, everyone I know who races in SC/SG/etc and lines up by the 100s at national events is not there because of the audience. We do not pay hundreds of dollars, wait through days of runaround, and take the terrible treatment dished out by the NHRA to us at national events because we have some fantasy that includes "and the crowd goes wild". We do it on the exceptionally slim chance that, at the end of the weekend, they'll hand you this gold/pewter thing with a guy standing next to a slick. Period.

NHRA is unique in having the largest participation in all of motorsport, with (they just edited the rule book to claim) 40,000 licensed participants. If what we are talking about here is increasing that participation, especially to a younger group, we need to be far more responsive and inclusive of those racers. We need to make classes that they fit in, we need to go out to the street races with emissaries that look like them and encourage racing on the track, and we need to welcome them (even if some have to hold their noses).

If, on the other hand, what we're talking about is increasing fan attendance and lowering that age demographic, we have to fix "the show".

• There has to be WAY more education about what's going on. The members here and all the gray-hairs in the stands understand what's going on. Anyone new hasn't a clue. Loud and fast for three seconds is cool, but if I don't understand the sport part of it, I won't get engaged.
• There needs to be WAY more attention paid to the big screen, and what's on there. Don't just show the same tired ads over and over, but have tons of new content. Educational (see above), games (not the geico idiots), stats/lineups, pit interviews live, that kind of thing. Go to any other arena sport and they have a whole staff dedicated to making the big screen entertainment first class. NHRA's sucks. The other sports have recognized that media like that helps attract and retain the younger audience.
• The show needs to move along faster. You can't have 75 minutes between rounds -- no other sport has an intermission that lasts over an hour let alone three of those in one day. It needs to be more like 30. Maybe that means the pros can't rebuild after every round. Bummer, change the engine combo so you can.
• There have to be people around who look like and understand the younger demographic. Younger drivers, younger personalities, younger people in the advertisements even.
• The show has to have cars people can imagine driving themselves. They have to see something that looks like something they enjoy. Jon's Coronet example is spot on.

In either case, whether you're looking for participants or audience, there need to be more people who fit the target demographic in the room when NHRA decisions are made. I don't think I know an NHRA employee under 40 (except the Geico clowns), and the board is all in their 60s or older, no? That can't help. You can't serve an audience you don't know.

Chris