Nick Name
Nitro Member
I didn't say it was the first. He stated no otherbtrack in Cal could you feel what drag racing was like 40 years ago.
I believe you feel it more at Bakersfield than Pomona.
Alternative tracks for Winters and Finals (1 Viewer)
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I believe you feel it more at Bakersfield than Pomona.
d'kid
Nitro Member
RE: The Parking Lot...
I grew up in So-cal as most know. Never, I repeat NEVER, did I remotely have a desire to attend the winternationals. Carlsbad, Fremont, Bakersfield, OCIR, Lions, The 'Dale, OMS... Heck, I ran at both The County on Wednesday Nights and Lions on Sunday... I do miss the Four Race winter series at The County, heck, I miss all the big independent Shows across the Country.
The Winters could be held at Any Track along the Southern Belt of the Country. The World Finals Should be held on a rotating basis at any Track. No track should have more than One National Event a Year...
And, I feel it's a Conflict of Interest of the NHRA to own Any Track and hold a National Event there...
d'kid
Karl Stalcup, why do you feel it’s a conflict of interest for NHRA to own a track?
All of the NASCAR Cup tracks are owned by two entities, Bruton Smith’s operation, and NASCAR’s, and they seem to operate pretty smoothly.
I don’t know whether or not this will mean anything, but decades ago Wally Parks told me the story of what happened to the original Dallas International Motor Speedway, the one that was located on the north side of Dallas right off, I believe, I-35.
Anyway, after the track was completed some people from the SCCA got in touch with the owners and convinced them that they’d make big money by building a road course to go with it. They assured the owners, who knew absolutely nothing about SCCA club racing, that fans and competitors would pack the place for every event. The trouble was that SCCA club racing was pretty much like bracket racing in that you’d have very enthusiastic participants and a rabid pack of fans. Unfortunately, those fans consisted of family members and a few friends. No one else ever bought a ticket.
Regardless, they went ahead with building a gorgeous road course (which was dynamite for shooting car features during the drags!).
Pretty quickly the track was in bad financial trouble, and Ben Parks (no relation to Wally), called NHRA and asked if Wally would fly down for a face-to-face. He did. Ben Parks wanted NHRA to take a financial stake in the track and help bail them out.
Wally told me he said, “We aren’t in business to be in competition with our track operators. It was a big mistake, because within six months we began getting into the track ownership end, but by then the track had gone to IHRA.”
It ended up closing after a horrendous jet car accident took the lives of three people, including the most popular TV sports guy in the city and two kids who were working the finish line time slip booth.
If you see this as a conflict, which I can’t see at all, what would happen to the races in Gainesville, Atlanta, Indy and Pomona?
When you suggest rotating facilities, almost any track operator will tell you that in order for a race to be successful it has to take place on the same weekend for at least three straight years. That “educates” the fans, who then begin planning on going to “their” race every year thereafter.
Your contention that no track should have more than one national event per year has some validity, and history has proven that most tracks who did have two races couldn’t make both successful. Vegas 2 is far better than Vegas 1 at the gate, for example. Joliet, Dallas and Houston couldn’t support two races per year.
Jon Asher
All of the NASCAR Cup tracks are owned by two entities, Bruton Smith’s operation, and NASCAR’s, and they seem to operate pretty smoothly.
I don’t know whether or not this will mean anything, but decades ago Wally Parks told me the story of what happened to the original Dallas International Motor Speedway, the one that was located on the north side of Dallas right off, I believe, I-35.
Anyway, after the track was completed some people from the SCCA got in touch with the owners and convinced them that they’d make big money by building a road course to go with it. They assured the owners, who knew absolutely nothing about SCCA club racing, that fans and competitors would pack the place for every event. The trouble was that SCCA club racing was pretty much like bracket racing in that you’d have very enthusiastic participants and a rabid pack of fans. Unfortunately, those fans consisted of family members and a few friends. No one else ever bought a ticket.
Regardless, they went ahead with building a gorgeous road course (which was dynamite for shooting car features during the drags!).
Pretty quickly the track was in bad financial trouble, and Ben Parks (no relation to Wally), called NHRA and asked if Wally would fly down for a face-to-face. He did. Ben Parks wanted NHRA to take a financial stake in the track and help bail them out.
Wally told me he said, “We aren’t in business to be in competition with our track operators. It was a big mistake, because within six months we began getting into the track ownership end, but by then the track had gone to IHRA.”
It ended up closing after a horrendous jet car accident took the lives of three people, including the most popular TV sports guy in the city and two kids who were working the finish line time slip booth.
If you see this as a conflict, which I can’t see at all, what would happen to the races in Gainesville, Atlanta, Indy and Pomona?
When you suggest rotating facilities, almost any track operator will tell you that in order for a race to be successful it has to take place on the same weekend for at least three straight years. That “educates” the fans, who then begin planning on going to “their” race every year thereafter.
Your contention that no track should have more than one national event per year has some validity, and history has proven that most tracks who did have two races couldn’t make both successful. Vegas 2 is far better than Vegas 1 at the gate, for example. Joliet, Dallas and Houston couldn’t support two races per year.
Jon Asher
yoda
Nitro Member
yeah... I see that Super Bowl stuff isn't workin' for them at all...
What owner of ANYTHING wouldn't want it to come back on a repetitive basis to be able to know how their books are going to balance, or at least have a bit of the pie at the end of their business year? Of course they are going to say that it takes three years of consistancy to build a fan base.
News flash- WE ARE THE FAN BASE.... Pander to us- we are the best representatives of the sport, and we aren't even on the payroll..
WE are the ones that bring our kids and neighbors to their first drag race- much more than the cheesy advertising that is done by any of the HRAs.
We are the ones that consistently pay the ever increasing gate fees. The ever increasing concession costs. The ever changing rules that make this sport nothing like those of us "old Fcks" remember it to be why we liked it in the first place.
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I have been there a couple times running Comp Elim. I really don't think it would be feasible to move the Winters or Finals to Famoso.
One minor change/addition to Jon's story on DIMS. I was the VP/GM of the place for the 1971 NHRA Springnationals. Ben Parks was out of the loop by that time...the owner, Bill Benedict was the head man calling the shots.
He made it known prior to the Springs that he was going to sell, lease, rent...whatever necessary to remove him from continuing financial losses incurred by the road course and two very large financial failures in their previous efforts at promoting major road racing. One was a victim of heavy rains which flooded the place.
B.B. offered the right of first refusal to NHRA. Because I had been involved with national event announcing for them for ten years, I was quite well known by W.P. and the rest of the NHRA leaders at the time. We met numerous times, I tried to explain the plans I had come up with for a continuing growth in the successful drag racing portion of the business, leaving the road course available for guaranteed rental operations only, no track promotions.
As hard as I could, I tried to convince them it was a financially feasible deal...but as was correctly noted...they did not want to get into the race track ownership business and compete with their member tracks.
The property alone was several hundred acres, with I-35 running through a portion which gave you double freeway frontage. The smaller portion, across the road from the race track site, is now the largest regional shopping mall in Texas...according to their promotional material.
In Wally's later years, my wife and I became even closer friends with W.P. and Barbara...and several times over dinner, Wally admitted to me that not doing the D.I.M.S. deal was his biggest mistake.
Just imagine what the land value alone is today. Staggering.
Didn't mean to go on so long...but those discussions and meetings, held in 1971, are in my head for keeps!
To all...have a great Thanksgiving and stay well.
MaC
He made it known prior to the Springs that he was going to sell, lease, rent...whatever necessary to remove him from continuing financial losses incurred by the road course and two very large financial failures in their previous efforts at promoting major road racing. One was a victim of heavy rains which flooded the place.
B.B. offered the right of first refusal to NHRA. Because I had been involved with national event announcing for them for ten years, I was quite well known by W.P. and the rest of the NHRA leaders at the time. We met numerous times, I tried to explain the plans I had come up with for a continuing growth in the successful drag racing portion of the business, leaving the road course available for guaranteed rental operations only, no track promotions.
As hard as I could, I tried to convince them it was a financially feasible deal...but as was correctly noted...they did not want to get into the race track ownership business and compete with their member tracks.
The property alone was several hundred acres, with I-35 running through a portion which gave you double freeway frontage. The smaller portion, across the road from the race track site, is now the largest regional shopping mall in Texas...according to their promotional material.
In Wally's later years, my wife and I became even closer friends with W.P. and Barbara...and several times over dinner, Wally admitted to me that not doing the D.I.M.S. deal was his biggest mistake.
Just imagine what the land value alone is today. Staggering.
Didn't mean to go on so long...but those discussions and meetings, held in 1971, are in my head for keeps!
To all...have a great Thanksgiving and stay well.
MaC
NHRADeuce
Nitro Member
Over the years I have gotten used to disagreeing with Jon Asher on most things NHRA, but this is dead on in every way.
Seriously? The most popular sport/sanctioning body by a large margin, second only to soccer in the entire world, with hundreds of millions of fans compared to NHRA? They could have the Super Bowl at an outdoor high school field in 3 feet of snow in Ontario Canada with nosebleed seats selling for $1500 and it would still sell out.Registered member said:
d'kid
Nitro Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Thomas
yeah... I see that Super Bowl stuff isn't workin' for them at all...
Seriously? The most popular sport/sanctioning body by a large margin, second only to soccer in the entire world, with hundreds of millions of fans compared to NHRA? They could have the Super Bowl at an outdoor high school field in 3 feet of snow in Ontario Canada with nosebleed seats selling for $1500 and it would still sell out.
Thanks Martini....
I see sarcasm not workin' with some people
Thanks Jon...
The 'first' Dallas strip was 'state of the art' for the times... and I was happy they held the 'World Finals' there the first year... but by then, too many bad things had happened during the season... including round one at the spring nationals, then losing John because of what happened at Indy...
I think after the 69 season was the first time I stopped really paying attention to what the NHRA was doing, except what showed up in Drag News. There were Major Independent Race that mattered as more to me, along with Jim T and the AHRA... Even while I was overseas in the mid-seventies, I might have got the "News" a little late, but I still knew what was going on via the good old US Mail... and my SS/DI... and Drag Racing USA.
But, getting back to it... Pomona, why, in the heck bring money to a town where the neighbors Hate you? More to the Point, and this applies to a lot of tracks, Why in the heck would someone buy a home near enough to a race track to hear it, and then ***** about the noise?
And one last Question, when the heck are we going to get a N/E back at VMP????? Okay, from my Front Door, to the Track is 102 miles (about a drive across town in LA, time-wise), in a Navy Town, with what I would think would be a Great Target Audience... Yet, next to NO local promotion for anything that happens there... even during the last batch of 5 'Va. is for Lovers' N/E we only heard promo's the last 4 to 5 days before the event... by which time, most people already have their weekend plans set...
I don't buy a reserve seat, stand at the fence about 700 to 800 or so feet out... far enough down track where I don't hear the tee-shirt guys... score board has times... so, I don't hear Bob's same jokes I've heard the other 20 plus events a year...
sorry to ramble on
d'kid
Originally Posted by Martin Thomas
yeah... I see that Super Bowl stuff isn't workin' for them at all...
Seriously? The most popular sport/sanctioning body by a large margin, second only to soccer in the entire world, with hundreds of millions of fans compared to NHRA? They could have the Super Bowl at an outdoor high school field in 3 feet of snow in Ontario Canada with nosebleed seats selling for $1500 and it would still sell out.
Thanks Martini....
I see sarcasm not workin' with some people
Thanks Jon...
The 'first' Dallas strip was 'state of the art' for the times... and I was happy they held the 'World Finals' there the first year... but by then, too many bad things had happened during the season... including round one at the spring nationals, then losing John because of what happened at Indy...
I think after the 69 season was the first time I stopped really paying attention to what the NHRA was doing, except what showed up in Drag News. There were Major Independent Race that mattered as more to me, along with Jim T and the AHRA... Even while I was overseas in the mid-seventies, I might have got the "News" a little late, but I still knew what was going on via the good old US Mail... and my SS/DI... and Drag Racing USA.
But, getting back to it... Pomona, why, in the heck bring money to a town where the neighbors Hate you? More to the Point, and this applies to a lot of tracks, Why in the heck would someone buy a home near enough to a race track to hear it, and then ***** about the noise?
And one last Question, when the heck are we going to get a N/E back at VMP????? Okay, from my Front Door, to the Track is 102 miles (about a drive across town in LA, time-wise), in a Navy Town, with what I would think would be a Great Target Audience... Yet, next to NO local promotion for anything that happens there... even during the last batch of 5 'Va. is for Lovers' N/E we only heard promo's the last 4 to 5 days before the event... by which time, most people already have their weekend plans set...
I don't buy a reserve seat, stand at the fence about 700 to 800 or so feet out... far enough down track where I don't hear the tee-shirt guys... score board has times... so, I don't hear Bob's same jokes I've heard the other 20 plus events a year...
sorry to ramble on
d'kid
VMP will never get another National until it is sold to someone else!!!!
When the Texas Motorplex had their Spring Natl. Event for what 3-4 years? They changed the date every year, and the attendance was pathetic! NASCAR and the NFL can get away with that, NHRA obviously can't!
smokemasterJ
Nitro Member
But, getting back to it... Pomona, why, in the heck bring money to a town where the neighbors Hate you? More to the Point, and this applies to a lot of tracks, Why in the heck would someone buy a home near enough to a race track to hear it, and then ***** about the noise?
You've got your towns wrong. Even though it's called Pomona the track is in La Verne. NO racer spends his or her money in La Verne. La Verne is the home of all the bad neighbors. The racers take their money to Pomona or Claremont or San Dimas.
You've got your towns wrong. Even though it's called Pomona the track is in La Verne. NO racer spends his or her money in La Verne. La Verne is the home of all the bad neighbors. The racers take their money to Pomona or Claremont or San Dimas.
DragFan2
Nitro Member
Karl, you're too old to be calling yourself d'kid! LOL
I too got my drag racing fix thru those mags back in the 60's and 70's.
And you may be tired of Bob Frey's jokes for the past 20 years, but that's probably cuz you listen to the audiocasts every race. He isn't on the ESPN2 Pro shows so the only time I get to hear him is when I attend a race which is once a year, twice on a good year, so I never get tired of Bob's jokes.
d'old man
Mad Mark
Nitro Member
Thanks for the insight DMac. And Jon!
Nick Name
Nitro Member
I was born and raised 40 miles from Pomona and have never been to a winternationals.
I only started to go to the finals when I became involved in the PSB contingency program (back when motorcycle companies were involved in PSB), and I received free passes.
Why...When we had at least one fuel show every weekend between Lions, OCIR, and Irwindale plus San Fernando on Sunday. I was not about to drive to Pomona and pay money to see super stock, etc.
As for big shows, for me it was the PDA events, Manufacturers 64 car funnycar events, etc.
As a west coast nitro junkie, I simply had no use for any of the rest of it.
No that I am no longer involved in PSB program, I don't go to Pomona. The big shows for me now are CHHR and March Meet.
This past finals weekend, I flew to Valdosta Ga. to watch 240 mph top fuel motorcycles, and 600 other drag bikes including 207 mph "street bikes" race.
I only started to go to the finals when I became involved in the PSB contingency program (back when motorcycle companies were involved in PSB), and I received free passes.
Why...When we had at least one fuel show every weekend between Lions, OCIR, and Irwindale plus San Fernando on Sunday. I was not about to drive to Pomona and pay money to see super stock, etc.
As for big shows, for me it was the PDA events, Manufacturers 64 car funnycar events, etc.
As a west coast nitro junkie, I simply had no use for any of the rest of it.
No that I am no longer involved in PSB program, I don't go to Pomona. The big shows for me now are CHHR and March Meet.
This past finals weekend, I flew to Valdosta Ga. to watch 240 mph top fuel motorcycles, and 600 other drag bikes including 207 mph "street bikes" race.
D
Nitro Member
Let's get back to the original issue, which isn't Pomona/SoCal drag racing history, but CalTrans/CHP messing with the pro and some sportsmen teams over trailer length when they enter/exit California. This affects Pomona1, Sonoma & Pomona 2. If California isn't going to give the same motorsports exemption as other states based on the federal one, then viable changes to the schedule need to be seriously looked at. Having been to both Pomona races several times, there are a few things being glossed over in the haze of nostalgia, parking is way expensive, as mentioned before the local town that affects the track doesn't get as much of the revenue generated as its neighbors, LaLaland isn't as secure from a theft and crime aspect as a lot of other venues on the tour, Mr Asher already mentioned LA traffic and while the Fairplex isn't the hardest track to access it isn't the easiest either.
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Huge
Nitro Member
Isn't Ca the only state that will not sell a permit? I havn't seen any other states shipping a trailer out of their state on a trailer.
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Huge
Nitro Member
Mike, I didn't hear anything about Idaho. The first that I heard was when Bob Tasca's hauler had problems going from Sonoma to Seattle.
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Original Message -----
From: Graham Light <[email protected]>
Sent: Thu Oct 27 19:23:08 2011
Subject: California 56' trailer law
As most of you are aware, California Highway Patrol (CHP) has indicated they will actively be enforcing the maximum 53’ trailer law. The problem first surfaced when Bob Tasca’s transporter was cited in route from Sonoma to Seattle. At that time it was believed that an over-length permit could be obtained through Caltrans (California Department of Transportation). On September 28, Bob informed us of the following – “Our permit was rejected in writing and I was told that under no circumstance will they allow a 56 foot trailer into CA. They also made it clear to me that there is no permit available. The head of the DOT was very nice to me but made it clear that the Motorsports law would have to be amended. Since the NASCAR community uses 53 foot trailers they are unaffected. He told me that a trailer caught will be impounded at the scales and have to be loaded on a low boy trailer and truck out of the state.”
Since that time, V Gaines has been working with the National Truckers Association in a lobbying effort to seek a Federal exemption for motorsports. V has made some positive headway, however obtaining a Federal exemption can be a lengthy process, one that certainly will NOT be obtained prior to Pomona (or for that matter, probably not the 2012 Winternationals). Also, there are NO guarantees that obtaining an exemption is even possible.
NHRA has been in communication with the head of the Commercial Division for the CHP and Caltrans, plus has recruited assistance from Joe Sheehy Legislative Director for Congresswoman Grace Napoliano and the Southern California Auto Club (AAA). Congresswoman Napolitano is extremely supportive and has discussed with the Commissioner and Assistant Commissioner of the CHP. The Auto Club’s Tom McKernan, their transportation staff and their Sacramento lobbyist have been very helpful in communication with California legislators, the CHP and Caltrans. We have also solicited assistance from Infineon Raceway and Auto Club Speedway at Fontana in contacting the CHP, Caltrans and State Legislators expressing the importance of the issue as well as how these races benefit the local and state economy. Additionally, the Fairplex at Pomona has also been actively pursuing a resolution to this matter.
In a conference call Tuesday with the head of the CHP Commercial Division, three of his officers and myself, I was alarmed to learn how knowledgeable they are about our activities:
1. They are aware that the NHRA teams are currently in Las Vegas this weekend.
2. They are aware these teams will be travelling to Pomona for the event two weeks later.
3. They identified certain teams that use legal 53’ trailers, and also named others that have 56’ trailers.
4. They are aware that most teams are based in Indianapolis.
5. On Monday, they were on a conference call with the Indiana State Police regarding enforcement of over-length trailers in Indiana. ,
Our efforts to this point have been an attempt to arrive at a short term solution for the Auto Club NHRA Finals. Unfortunately, despite everyone’s efforts, a resolution to the matter has not yet been reached.
• Caltrans is the agency that creates and issues permits. They have made it very clear that permits do NOT exist for this purpose and, at this point, are unwilling to consider creating a permit.
• The CHP’s position is that it is their responsibility to “enforce the law” and the teams responsibility to “comply with the law”. Their opinion is that the law was revised in the late 90’s to accommodate motorsport transporters and there is little willingness on their part to further amend a long standing law (the same law that exists in most other states). They also expressed they are “not supportive of exempting longer trailers”. We do not have a sense as to how aggressively they plan on enforcing this law.
While there is no immediate resolution, the CHP suggested transporting race cars and support equipment in rented legal length trailers - then contract with a transport service to haul the 56’ trailer on a lowboy (permits do exist for this purpose). Another suggestion was to investigate the possibility of shipping the trailers and contents by rail from Las Vegas to Pomona area.
Anything your team could do to use your influence and/or connections to assist in this matter could be beneficial.
Thanks,
Graham
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D
Nitro Member
This is an old issue from around '99 or '00, there is a federal DOT exemption for motorsports transporters and most state will sell a permit based on the federal exemption, California was uncooperative back then as teams were heading to Sonoma. NHRA and V got something worked out and its held up up until this year obviously.
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