140 degree track in Norwalk...

[T.Smith]

You lost me on that one.... Where does it say you are running under different conditions???
All cars are on the same track, at the same time. Under the same conditions. What could be more fair???
They all get 4 shots period.

If you run the 13th quickest ET, ANY time Fri. it means NOTHING.
Now Sat comes. First pass you smoke. Second pass you break a belt.
The 19th qualifyer (from Fri.) makes a fair pass, it counts. he didn't go as quick as you did Fri. Yet he is in, you are not. You call that fair??

So NO, the 12 rule does NOT get the 16 quickest.

My God....did you read anything I wrote earlier?

Most do not give a sh*t about your sacred top 16 anymore, because of how sensitive the cars are to track temps. Everyone has figured out how to haul ass on night runs, so much so that at some races it can make Saturday irrelevant because of the difference in track temp.

You need to look at both sides of the rule, not just the part you want to rant and rave about.

 

[Toejam]

My God....did you read anything I wrote earlier?

Most do not give a sh*t about your sacred top 16 anymore, because of how sensitive the cars are to track temps. Everyone has figured out how to haul ass on night runs, so much so that at some races it can make Saturday irrelevant because of the difference in track temp.

You need to look at both sides of the rule, not just the part you want to rant and rave about.

Tony your right, it's pretty easy to Turn up the wick on an 80 degree track at night, but if you can't learn to race during the day it's all for naught.

 

[clwill]

This (interminable) argument ignores a crucial consideration. People who buy tickets for Saturday's show see nothing but a snore-fest of either tire smoke or people with no chance to make the field. The "12 Rule" at least puts four spots up for grabs -- so that those who pay large money to see a show on Saturday see at least something...

 

[my friends call me Zappy]

Exactly my point. Everyone can, so why not count 25% of the Fri. runs??

 

[Wayne]

This (interminable) argument ignores a crucial consideration. People who buy tickets for Saturday's show see nothing but a snore-fest of either tire smoke or people with no chance to make the field. The "12 Rule" at least puts four spots up for grabs -- so that those who pay large money to see a show on Saturday see at least something...

Well said Chris!!!

Good luck tomorrow/Sun in Woodburn!

 

[my friends call me Zappy]

I disagree, to me thats what qualifying is all about. To produce the best, (quickest) cars to race on Sun. If we have to bend the rules to get the slower cars in..........may as well just draw names out of a hat.

If you pass tech, the scales, and the fuel check after a run, IT SHOULD COUNT. It shouldn't mater if its day or nite / Fri. or Sat. A legal pass, is a legal pass.

If ya can't run with the big dogs.........

 

[e]

Going on memory here (yeah, that's always bad !!!), but if I remember right, the NHRA first came up with the Friday night sessions for the fans to see what might be great runs and times.....Seems like most of the crew chiefs at first didn't like the idea because they knew that the race day conditions would be completely different.....After a bit of haggling they realized that those Friday "night" runs were basically for the fans and they begrudgedly at first went along with it.....Then NHRA realized that with the usually much better Friday night conditions sometimes the fields were completely set and if someone missed or had a "bad" run they usually didn't have a real chance to make it in on the Saturday "regular" condition runs.....They then came up with the "top 12" runs in the so called "good" conditions and decided to leave 4 spots open for those who might not have been able to make those "good" runs and still leave them with a chance to get in.....In theory they would all be equal on Sunday, but of course those who ran great on the Friday night session still ended up with the better lane choice..............................e

 

[my friends call me Zappy]

Yer memory seems just fine sir.

 

[Shaggy]

I'm sorry I agree with Paul on this one... I can see the point about the show for the fans, but that is as far as it goes... The main thing I see is it gives the high dollar teams a chance to get in the field and screw a low dollar team that got it right Friday night when the high dollar team didnt...


Perfect way to rectify this top 12 rule and night sessions and reduce costs all at the same time... Eliminate Saturday qualifying and run eliminations Saturday afternoon/night...

 

[T.Smith]

I disagree, to me thats what qualifying is all about. To produce the best, (quickest) cars to race on Sun. If we have to bend the rules to get the slower cars in..........may as well just draw names out of a hat.

If you pass tech, the scales, and the fuel check after a run, IT SHOULD COUNT. It shouldn't mater if its day or nite / Fri. or Sat. A legal pass, is a legal pass.

If ya can't run with the big dogs.........

Your entitled to your opinion, even if it's wrong.

 

[Paul]

Your entitled to your opinion, even if it's wrong.

Exactly........

 

[rollingthunder]

friday night for me was always going to see them run under the lights.
header flames and the low times. If i don't make it for friday night and they don't have a night session. I don't got at all. I have pretty much done that whole time i have went to the races.

 

[Jeff]

I think by definition an opinion can't be wrong. Paul wants an extremely high penalty for a failed run Friday night (under the premise that if this rule were to change, the teams who swing for the fences Friday would not adjust to the new rule). Not sure I follow his logic.

The problem with throwing out Saturday entirely (e.g. moving Sunday to Saturday) is that it results in a 1/3 (or more) decrease in the revenue for the track owner and decreases the exposure all sponsors would get. I'm just a bean counter, but I don't see that math working well.

 

[MM]

I'm sorry I agree with Paul on this one...

You realize the two people arguing here are both named Paul right?

 

[T.Smith]

I think by definition an opinion can't be wrong.

You know what Jeff?...your right, nice catch. I will rephrase my comment.

 

[T.Smith]

I disagree, to me thats what qualifying is all about. To produce the best, (quickest) cars to race on Sun. If we have to bend the rules to get the slower cars in..........may as well just draw names out of a hat.

If you pass tech, the scales, and the fuel check after a run, IT SHOULD COUNT. It shouldn't mater if its day or nite / Fri. or Sat. A legal pass, is a legal pass.

If ya can't run with the big dogs.........

Your entitled to your opinion, even if it makes you sound silly and ignorant.

 

[Nitrohelper]

Just to throw out another thought - set the 16 qualified cars based on an average of their three best times...
That would reward consistency, and allow for their worst run to be thrown out...
Then they could eliminate the 12 car confusion for the casual fan and stick& ball sports writers,
plus maybe have a better bumping show on Saturday pm...

 

[my friends call me Zappy]

Just to throw out another thought - set the 16 qualified cars based on an average of their three best times...
That would reward consistency, and allow for their worst run to be thrown out...
Then they could eliminate the 12 car confusion for the casual fan and stick& ball sports writers,
plus maybe have a better bumping show on Saturday pm...

I could live with that system. It sure beats tossing out over a quarter of the best runs on Fri.

 

[my friends call me Zappy]

You realize the two people arguing here are both named Paul right?

Yer right sir. Between Songas - Flores - Miller - myself, and probly several other Pauls, Mr. White needs to be more clear on who he sides with.

 

[T.Smith]

Just to throw out another thought - set the 16 qualified cars based on an average of their three best times...
That would reward consistency, and allow for their worst run to be thrown out...
Then they could eliminate the 12 car confusion for the casual fan and stick& ball sports writers,
plus maybe have a better bumping show on Saturday pm...

I know that has been discussed before. I'm not sure how you figure that format would be less confusing than the current format, especially when you start considering how it is going to presented to everyone at the track and at home watching it on TV.