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"Zippy" Zips... (2 Viewers)

Registered member said:
You had limited info on previous deals but placed blame and judgement with no problem then.

C'mon, Doc, admit it!

Go back to the Bernstein/Walsh thread and read all of your comments.

www.nitromater.com - Is Ray Alley still the crew chief?

How does that same judgement not apply to Force?
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This is my exact point to my earlier post, Bernstein took a beating for luring a crew chief with a verbal agreement. Force has done the same thing here and everyone is turning their head because it is team Force. I defended Bernstein, and I will defend Force because Zippy did not have a signed contract for next year, but Zippy did have a verbal agreement with Schumacher for 2008. Hey Karl, are you going to stop supporting Castrol now? I am seeing a bunch of "flip flopper's" on this deal only because of which team this is dealing with.
 
Registered member said:
Has anyone considered that Mike Neff himself may have tested the waters elsewhere? There's lots of finger pointing that I have to believe is based upon speculation since neither JFR nor Zippy himself has openly stated. I've read every word of Don's statement as well as the rumors printed about this scenario and I just can't place a lot of blame on anyone given the limited information.

Everyone has a right to move on, especially if they deem such a move would be a move up.
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You did not think this way earlier this year when Walsh had a chance to move up. Why do you have a change of heart? To quote you, is it alright for John to "buy anything"?
 
Registered member said:
This is my exact point to my earlier post, Bernstein took a beating for luring a crew chief with a verbal agreement. Force has done the same thing here and everyone is turning their head because it is team Force. I defended Bernstein, and I will defend Force because Zippy did not have a signed contract for next year, but Zippy did have a verbal agreement with Schumacher for 2008. Hey Karl, are you going to stop supporting Castrol now? I am seeing a bunch of "flip flopper's" on this deal only because of which team this is dealing with.
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There is a difference between working for one team Monday morning and another team Wednesday afternoon, and working for one team in 2007 and another team next year. It doesn't have anything to do with who did it. It is all time-frame related.
 
This is comparing apples to sour grapes!

I'll openly admit my displeasure with Bernstein as well as my lack of concern with JRF/Zippy. May I qualify my remarks, however?

* Walsh was stolen right out from under Tuttle's nose while JR was in contention with Bernstein's son. This was done as a stealth sniping, mid-season in the heat of a points battle. Tuttle had to scramble, with no time to prepare a replacement whatsoever to maintain his hard-earned position in the points.

*Zippy's deal, on the other hand comes at the end of the season when his driver's departure has already been made public. The team owner, now has 7+ months to restructure a team that is already broken up. To my knowledge, there has been no statements made whatsoever that say John approached Mike Neff and that leaves the possibility that Mike approached John first? All we know is that they have spoken about it and agreed. Walsh and Zippy operated under the same verbal contract but only one is finishing his season-long obligation.

Now Mr. Flores, I admitted it as you requested. Will you also be willing to admit your position in this matter comes partially from the fact that you are anything but a JFR fan or should I post a number of your derogatory statements there as verification?

I doubt such an explanation will satisfy Paul Miller's concern given his responses to most of what I post however.
 
I'll try again. Let's say someone from JFR with intimate knowledge of the tune-ups from all 4 cars gets lured away to some other team half way thru the season. Just like this deal with the qualifiers you listed.
Would that be "awesome" as you said earlier?

Shoe stated Mike was "worked on, worked on, worked on" by Force after having given his word and shaking on the deal.






Will you also be willing to admit your position in this matter comes partially from the fact that you are anything but a JFR fan or should I post a number of your derogatory statements there as verification?
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EVERYONE knows I don't cheer for JFR.
No qualms about anything I've ever said on here.

But getting back to the point:
Just looking for some consistency from you Mr. Miller.
 
Registered member said:
I'll try again. Let's say someone from JFR with intimate knowledge of the tune-ups from all 4 cars gets lured away to some other team half way thru the season. Just like this deal with the qualifiers you listed.
Would that be "awesome" as you said earlier?
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I'll refer to Kevin Poynter leaving JFR and saving JR Todd's points and position for Tuttle's Team a couple months ago after a mid-season sniping occurred. I guarantee he had the intimate knowledge of which you speak and since it's quite recent most will openly remember. For those with a more distant memory, I'll refer to Dickie Venables defecting with Tony and the Q deal.

I applauded both for "stepping into the dark" (figuratively speaking) and trying the independent team deal knowing full well that they left a very stable position in a winning organization.


Registered member said:
Shoe stated Mike was "worked on, worked on, worked on" by Force after having given his word and shaking on the deal.
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Have you heard from John Force or Mike Neff as yet? I'll not discredit Don's statement and from his point of view, that may be the complete story but I believe there will be much more to know about the decision when all the principals have spoken.

Paul, I have no intention of swaying your opinion and I believe we'll agree to disagree as we have done many times before. I only wanted to clarify how I see the two crew chief's departures very differently.
 
Paul and Bobby,
you don't know the background behind the Walsh--Bernstein--Tuttle deal so leave that one out of this arguement.There was more going on there than has been told.

Roo
 
The Bernstein deal and this one are different. Even though I thougth it sucked for JR I still didnt throw Kenny under the bus back when that deal went down and I wont throw John under it now. And like it has been pointed out, this is for next year its not like Zippy left and went the next day to JFR. I dont blame anybody for trying to make there race team better nor do I blame a driver/crew chief for bettering his situation. Its not like DSR isint a really good team but JFR is the pinnacle of the sport.

Ofcourse I am happy to see him join JFR. I think it will be a welcomed addition to an already awesome team. If Scelzi were to come too (which I dont think is going to happen) that would be awesome as well. Its hard for me to root against DSR anyways except for when they run a JFR car b/c I really Scelzi, Beckman, and Capps is ok too. They got rid of Blaze so I really dont have anyone to root against over there anymore.
 
I am sure DSR has some home grown talent among it crews. Didn't Todd Okuhara spend some years under McCulloch?
 
Ok, I haven't seen this mentioned yet, so I'll quietly throw my two cents into the pot.

I tend to think that maybe, possibly, Zippy could have approached The Don about driving. And....(this will start some trouble, but) I'm curious to know what Zippy was offered to stay at DSR. In all fairness, I wonder what Kevin Poynter, etc., was offered as well. But, I do know that when you are a crew chief-in-training, most of the time you will HAVE to leave to earn that position. Your mentor is not going to give up his job just because he trained you. John Medlen did an excellent job of training two very good crew chiefs. This is how our sport grew.

Much like Ron Capps leaving DPR, we'll probably never know the finer details of the agreement (or disagreement). I will also be the first to admit that this was one of the weirdest set-ups I've ever heard. More power to all of them...they are probably sitting back laughing at us... :D
 
Good points. While we are mentionings things not often discussed, I think deep down, most crew chiefs would like to drive. Hard work and perseverance (and talent) can lead to a position of crew chief more often than leading to a seat. That seems to require $$$$. Jim Head and Warren Johnson?? are notable exceptions to the "rather drive" theory.
 
We don't need facts :D



Oh and he better not refer to his car as Zippy the Wonder Slug. I already own those naming right :D
 
Okay, I guess I'm good with this... zippy's a free agent at the end of the season, boy wants to drive, not like he's being hired as a CC... and it does open a slot over at DSR...
 
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