WJ's comments on EFI in Pro Stock

[Ponyhntr]

Was wondering if you maters could help me out.

I seem to remember reading somewhere (article, interview, etc.) where WJ expressed his comments/thoughts on electronic fuel injection in Pro Stock.

Does anybody know where I might find it on the web? Links?

Your help is much appreciated!

 

[fizzle]

Here ya go

price of progress: EFI revisited, The National Dragster - Find Articles

 

[Ponyhntr]

Thanks Jason!

 

[Wife's Name]

http://competitionplus.com/2006_02/efi_carbs.html

 

[Ponyhntr]

http://competitionplus.com/2006_02/efi_carbs.html

Welcome to the Mater Frank! That's actually the article I was thinking of, but I had read the other one too, but forgot about it.

Thanks!

 

[Mooseman]

Why don't they just allow mechanical fuel injection .

 

["Dr. Dirt"]

Mechanical fuel injection is as prevalent on factory cars as carburetors are?
It's got to evolve to EFI to at least step up to ten+ year old technology of these factory cars.

 

[Mooseman]

Why do they keep comparing pro stock to cars that come out of the factory , If I am not mistaken the only car in pro stock that actually comes out of the factory with a v8 is the pontiac gto (go the holden monaro in american form) and none of them come out with big blocks . I agree with what Barry Grant said in that comp plus article , the pro stock cars are nothing like the factory cars and as he said when you go to a hotrod meat 90% of hotrods are carburated . Plus carbs make more power .

 

[Rocketman 207]

Why do they keep comparing pro stock to cars that come out of the factory...I agree with what Barry Grant said...the pro stock cars are nothing like the factory cars...Plus carbs make more power .

I'll second that!

 

[DrRocket]

Why do they keep comparing pro stock to cars that come out of the factory ,

Because "they" (NHRA) keep referring to them as the "Factory Hot Rods." With all due respect to Mr Grant, he sorta has a vested interest in keeping carbs around, I would think. It seems to me that's one of the reasons the Sanctioning bodies are sticking with carbs for now. The other reason is that they're terrified these crew chiefs will use the EFI systems for things other than just fuel delivery.


The key to EFI is flexibility. With it, you can control the tune up with a lap top. By changing the settings, you can go from econo-cruiser, to everyday driving, to banzaii. The reason I think you still see a lot of carbs on hot rods? Well, at last summer's "Back To The Fifties" meet here in St. Paul, there were a lot of carbs in use, and lots of grey hair on the users. These guy know carbs. They've used them all their life. They're used to them. They don't know much about EFI. They don't (For the most part.) know much about computers. My son, on the other hand, who's hod rodding an Eclipse GSX Turbo isn't afraid of any of that. I've been to some of his car shows, and these guys are making some awesome horsepower with half the cubic inches. I honestly don't think they'd be making it with carbs. Once rodders using V8's start getting used to playing with EFI, and learn how to tweak the settings, you'll see more and more V8 rodders switching. (By the way, he's also working on an S10/350 V8 convewrsion. And plans to use EFI on it.)

 

[headporter]

I have talked to WJ myself about EFI and it was interesting.

The real problem with EFI in pro stock is simple. It's a BIG PROBLEM for NHRA to comprehend. lol

Truth is THEY can't police it good enough at this point because Like F1. they would have to Hire some one who was Unbiased to read calmaps and data and know about all the sensors on the cars. Plus looking at all the wires and what not and the BIG DEAL is Traction Control. Since you would have a drive shaft sensor you could reduce power for a split second and drive through tire shake via the computer. And how can they figure out who is doing it or not. They would have to go look see after every run the graphs and or down load the data themself at the end of a run. Not to mention retain computers from time to time to see what is happening with the programing.

All in all like the Past NHRA Tech guy who now works for a funny car team. Wich team is going to allow some one to HAVE the computer turned over to NHRA and say well who is copying our Engine control data. Even though Head flow, cam profiles, headers , intake parameters, engine rpm, engine load, temp, and on and on are all too much for them to comprehend. IMHO.

But I will say this.. I have Ported many sets of heads and intakes. And I think I know more then the above average joe about porting and Engine dynamics. The root of this EFI problem is Reversions in the Intake. I will Quote WJ form our Convo. " the cross talk is not as good with EFI as with carbs and the engine made about 20-25 hp Less with it on there" ..

This is not ment to be a class on EFI but just some imput on what I have seen on the dyno myself.. However let me explain one thing before you all give me S**T about this.

In normaly asperated engines the reverse flow "cross talk" that happens in the running engine for most people can not be comprehended. In a micro second when the valve closes. the air is reversed to a point of astronomical impact. And I will let you folks do the Math on how many times a SECOND it happens @ 10k rpm.

If you want a mental exersize. do it if you can. Basic info swept volume + air flow + engine effency + rpm - cam shaft speed = valve event time + RUNNING air flow @ MPH down the track at What point + hood scoop efficency + header under car placement for Negative pressure increase = Have fun figuring it out.. Hence thats why Flow Benches don't race on the drag strip.

In a turbo or super charged App. this is not a problem. For the simple reason is that the intake valve is under constant pressure. hence not much reversion. So YES EFI does in this case make more power.

I could keep going but this should give you some thing to ponder for a few minutes.

One last thing is about BB V8's in pro stocks is like anything else. If you slow the cars down by say making them run SB engines you might as well watch comp. They need a fast door slammer class. and promods wich I love personally are not the answer to what is called FACTORY SUPPORT $$$$ like Pontiac Mopar and Gm they put alot of money into the prostock class.. and pro mods will not sell a cobalt or a 57 or 63 no more. Hence Pro stock it is. For now any way.

Enjoy the debate.