Rocketman 207
Nitro Member
Speaking of WJ, I heard that Greg Anderson kid is gonna quit and start his own team, I bet he'll fall flat on his face
Darn! You beat me to that one!
WJ/Toliver incident? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Rick
- Start date
Darn! You beat me to that one!
Rocketman 207
Nitro Member
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Nitro Member
WTF?
I don't follow P/S too closely, but WJ and Kurt are my faves in that category.
AJ is my buddy and neighbor. He'll cut me a way better deal on a toyota body.
I'm sure you would sell me a "toy Yoda" like this:
(click, then scroll down)
State: Dream car is a 'toy Yoda'
I'll tell you how sharp Toliver's guys were. Word I get is,when WJ started backing the motor home out of his parking space,he damn near ran it over. He and Arlene had to get out and move the body. Maybe if he had ran it over,the debate would be over. I'll tell you something else,track personnel was on the verge of sticking a forklift through it and hauling it to the dumpster before the parts were removed. So I guess WJ's crew wasn't the only ones who thought it was junk,which it was. Yep,real smart guys leaving it behind a motor home.
club
Nitro Member
Assuming what Toliver said is true and Johnson said he would "make good" on the body then that puts him in the middle and possibly liable. It's doubt full the police would have impounded the entire truck, they probably would have arrested the suspects, recovered the stolen property and assuming there was another crew member(s) to drive the truck(s), they would have let them go on.
As someone said earlier, if I were the judge I would hold each party is 50% liable. Both sides did dumb stuff to lead to what happened so I can't see either side being completely blameless or at fault.
Next Case Please! (insert sound of gavel here)
"Dr. Dirt"
Nitro Member
As I get older, I'm learning that everything that goes wrong is not always "someone's" fault. There are times that it's just circumstances that lead to situations. Here's a perfect opportunity for the onlookers to take sides. For me, I happen to revere both parties with a great deal of respect. It's a complete shame that this happened at all.
Far worse damage has been done with no finger pointing on the track where a competitor has lost control and ruined the entire car of another without any need for blame, we all pick up our own pieces, thank God nobody was seriously injured and go home and repair or replace things saying "That's Racing." It seems a shame such a miscommunication ends up in court to settle differences when worse damage on track would have brought the competitors possibly closer as Allen/Kortesky's tragic incident did with little or no finger-pointing at all?
Such is life, I guess.
Far worse damage has been done with no finger pointing on the track where a competitor has lost control and ruined the entire car of another without any need for blame, we all pick up our own pieces, thank God nobody was seriously injured and go home and repair or replace things saying "That's Racing." It seems a shame such a miscommunication ends up in court to settle differences when worse damage on track would have brought the competitors possibly closer as Allen/Kortesky's tragic incident did with little or no finger-pointing at all?
Such is life, I guess.
I don't get why WJ has to pay anything. I know my boss would not and should not pay if I screwed something up like this. I think it was a nice offer he made.
As someone who oversees a shipping department and deals with Roush I know you mark and label anything that is being shipped.
Since it sounds like the track workers were going to junk it soon too, I wonder if Tollliver would have went after them. I would think WJ's offer would be good enough and Tolliver should be thankful for that.
Hopefully it ends soon before Tolliver looks even worse and looses fans
As someone who oversees a shipping department and deals with Roush I know you mark and label anything that is being shipped.
Since it sounds like the track workers were going to junk it soon too, I wonder if Tollliver would have went after them. I would think WJ's offer would be good enough and Tolliver should be thankful for that.
Hopefully it ends soon before Tolliver looks even worse and looses fans
Bullet
Nitro Member
Never has a truer word been said, Bobby.
The problem with society today is that for some reason, people do not want to take responsibility for their actions, they want someone else to take the blame.
An example, I got a ticket the other day for speeding, a combination of passing someone, going a little too fast and not concentrating. One of my good mates, is telling me to fight it in court as I might get off. My take on it, and how I have been brought up, is that if you do the crime, you do the time. Simple terms, I screwed up, why should I try blame someone else.
As they say, SH!T HAPPENS, sometimes people just need to accept it.
club
Nitro Member
The only reason is because he is supposed to have said he would "make good" on it. Otherwise he wouldn't have anything to do with it other than some guys that worked for him did it.
Nitrohaulic
Nitro Member
If Warren's crewmembers are there as his employees, I think that does make him somewhat legally responsible for what they do. I'm not saying I agree with it, but I think it does. You can't hit me as an employee of McDonald's, and then have that store get out of it by simply saying "We didn't tell them to do that."
I noticed some of the statements in the article seem a little weird.
It doesn't matter whether or not an officer leaves a case "open." It matters how long the statute of limitations are in that state. It's not up to an officer's decision.
The word "or" seems strange. Something can be criminal AND civil. Ask O.J.
I know in Tennessee the statute of limitations are one year for criminal, two for civil. If you hit me, I can press criminal charges 364 days later and take out a warrant for your arrest. I can still sue you for money for up to two years after.
I actually think there's a chance that a good attorney might get Warren and company somewhere in this. Jerry says it was still his property, even though he left it on someone else's property. Saying what everything on or in it was worth doesn't keep it from fitting the definition of having been abandoned. I don't notice him saying that anyone told anybody so much as "We're coming back to get that." Sounds like he ASSUMED people would think that.
I noticed some of the statements in the article seem a little weird.
It doesn't matter whether or not an officer leaves a case "open." It matters how long the statute of limitations are in that state. It's not up to an officer's decision.
The word "or" seems strange. Something can be criminal AND civil. Ask O.J.
I know in Tennessee the statute of limitations are one year for criminal, two for civil. If you hit me, I can press criminal charges 364 days later and take out a warrant for your arrest. I can still sue you for money for up to two years after.
I actually think there's a chance that a good attorney might get Warren and company somewhere in this. Jerry says it was still his property, even though he left it on someone else's property. Saying what everything on or in it was worth doesn't keep it from fitting the definition of having been abandoned. I don't notice him saying that anyone told anybody so much as "We're coming back to get that." Sounds like he ASSUMED people would think that.
yoda
Nitro Member
Not that I know anything, but I would guess that if a truck was being sent to pick up the body, there would be some record of WHEN that truck was hired to do that... At that point, it would establish a moment when Jerry would be able to prove that he didn't abandon the body, even though any time between the time the transporter left the track up until the call arranging the truck (IF it happened in that sequence, and not the other way around) would put the body in the limbo that there was no owner (even though Jerry's name was still on the body
)...What is left behind at the track is trash or junk unless it is marked. If the clean up crew had got there first it would have been in the dumpster. Toliver has no case. No one in there right mind would leave a FC body on the ground with out marking it or moving it to a safe place. This is no different than anything else left in the pits when you pull out.
Nitrohaulic
Nitro Member
Nitrohaulic
Nitro Member
Not that I know anything, but I would guess that if a truck was being sent to pick up the body, there would be some record of WHEN that truck was hired to do that... At that point, it would establish a moment when Jerry would be able to prove that he didn't abandon the body, even though any time between the time the transporter left the track up until the call arranging the truck (IF it happened in that sequence, and not the other way around) would put the body in the limbo that there was no owner (even though Jerry's name was still on the body
Seems to me like you would need to notify the owners of the property that you're temporarily leaving it on, or at least one of their employees. Would have changed the entire picture if one track worker had been able to say "Hey, they said they're coming back for that." Jerry seems to act like everyone is stupid for not knowing what he ASSUMED.
Nitrohaulic
Nitro Member
Like has been said before, it's supposed to be worth umpteen thousand dollars, but you don't leave one guy behind to keep an eye on it. How many parts HAVE been stolen by fans in the past? Just seems to me that for every act of ignorance Jerry's accusing Warren's people of here, he's guilty of at least one. Not leaving someone and not notifying anyone just seems to support Warren's guys, IMO.
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What if it was a complete super comp dragster? Would it be OK to load it up in your trailer or pick it clean? Do you think the clean up crew would have crushed it and put it in a dumpster? One of those is approximately the same value as a FC body.
Nitrohaulic
Nitro Member
I keep hearing people say that there had to be something wrong with Warren's people for thinking that the body was abandoned.
Does anyone REALLY think they thought anything like "Hey, Jerry's left that body here and will probably be having it picked up. Let's hurry up and STEAL the tree for the titanium tubing and hack off whatever other parts we can before they get back." Just who does this malicious intent make more sense to?
If the body was as complete and intact as the super comp dragster example given above and someone had bad intentions, they'd steal the whole car! For however incorrect they may have been, I do think they thought they were stripping a junk, abandoned body.
What we're debating here are intentions, and that's what Jerry's arguing. He and others here seem to be saying that nobody should have been able to to think that the car was abandoned, that whoever did what they did, did it knowingly with bad intentions.
I think the only people who can speak for their intentions are the ones who did it, and that whatever they say, when and if they do, is what you have to go on unless you can prove otherwise. Whether they would still be found to be liable in a criminal or civil court?
Does anyone REALLY think they thought anything like "Hey, Jerry's left that body here and will probably be having it picked up. Let's hurry up and STEAL the tree for the titanium tubing and hack off whatever other parts we can before they get back." Just who does this malicious intent make more sense to?
If the body was as complete and intact as the super comp dragster example given above and someone had bad intentions, they'd steal the whole car! For however incorrect they may have been, I do think they thought they were stripping a junk, abandoned body.
What we're debating here are intentions, and that's what Jerry's arguing. He and others here seem to be saying that nobody should have been able to to think that the car was abandoned, that whoever did what they did, did it knowingly with bad intentions.
I think the only people who can speak for their intentions are the ones who did it, and that whatever they say, when and if they do, is what you have to go on unless you can prove otherwise. Whether they would still be found to be liable in a criminal or civil court?
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The truth is WJ doesn't pay his employees or feed them. They were hungry and saw an opportunity to make a little extra change stripping the car. As somebody previously posted,intent,intent,intent is the question. I think this is the question that will decide this IF it ever makes it to court. How is it going to look when the track employee testifies that he too thought it was abandoned and was on the verge of putting in the dumpster. I'm not saying the best of judgement was used by WJ's guys but it's far from criminal intent. Beat this horse all you want,it's a moot point.
As somebody previously posted,intent,intent,intent is the question. I think this is the question that will decide this IF it ever makes it to court. How is it going to look when the track employee testifies that he too thought it was abandoned and was on the verge of putting in the dumpster. I'm not saying the best of judgement was used by WJ's guys but it's far from criminal intent. Beat this horse all you want,it's a moot point.Similar threads
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