Also shoe sales have to be insane numbers, not to discount world wide live coverage, that’s some serious ROI
Why Not Us? (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter TopFuel@Lions
- Start date
lets say nhra became only (2) pro classes. TF and FC. only 16 cars show up at each race. there are NO non-qualifiers. everyone qualifies and races on sunday.
pay structure as follows
(8) first round losers @ $15k each = $120,000
(4) second round losers @ $25k each = $100,000k
(2) third round losers @ $35k each = $70,00k
(1) runner up @ $45,000
(1) winner @ $60,000
that is $395,000 paid out per nitro class (x2 classes) = $790,000 per race paid to two pro classes.
if you want to include PS and/or other class/es in your pro program, then price goes up.
pay structure as follows
(8) first round losers @ $15k each = $120,000
(4) second round losers @ $25k each = $100,000k
(2) third round losers @ $35k each = $70,00k
(1) runner up @ $45,000
(1) winner @ $60,000
that is $395,000 paid out per nitro class (x2 classes) = $790,000 per race paid to two pro classes.
if you want to include PS and/or other class/es in your pro program, then price goes up.
glofria
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And that my friends are why they run other classes like SG and SC at the national level. Do the math on the entry fee for the sportsmen classes and the car counts and you'll start to get a better understanding of the operation.
I'm willing to bet that most of the event sponorship money goes towards the expenses for the weekend.
I'm willing to bet that most of the event sponorship money goes towards the expenses for the weekend.
TopFuel@Lions
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Greg pretty much nailed it but here are my answers.
1. Rules are very, very close with the 2 major Late Model Series.
2. 3 to 4 hours of racing an evening.
3. Most stay, a small portion leaves after the Late Models.
4. Must show up even before track packing and hot laps.
5. On huge events it can be 1, 2, 3, 04 four division shows. Weekly 5 to 7.
6. Usually from 20 minutes to 40 minutes depending on yellows and clean up.
7. Around 50 to 70 dollars.
8. From 25 to 40 clams.
9. Oh yes, the live streaming platforms are big, you have the king in my eyes, Flo Racing, then there is Lucas Oil Tv, Dirtvision, Speed 51, Dirt Digest and others.
10. For the most part it is smaller companies, engine, chassis, tire, speed shop, local business that feeds the dirt scene.
There is a multi-component that short track speedways, dirt or asphalt do well with, in no order. The back gate, you have your entry fees, not all tracks, and you have your adult and child pit passes. Figure in like at my track Talladega, you have 100 to 150 cars with drivers, then the crew pit passes and the non crew pit passes. Then you have your front gate admissions, adult, senior and child prices. Our track, 9 and under are free. Our weekly show is just $10.00. Then you have your concession stand, that folks is where your best profit margin is. Out prices at Talladega are fair, $3.25 for a cheeseburger, $3 for regular, grilled hot dogs for $2.00, fries $2 and all 16oz drinks are $2.00. You have 2 sources of concession income, the grandstands and pits. When all those come together you have a profitable track. We have large and free parking, you can bring in any size cooler just no glass. Beer, booze, wine, food and drinks all welcome at out track, we make it easy.
TopFuel@Lions
Talladega Announcer
1. Rules are very, very close with the 2 major Late Model Series.
2. 3 to 4 hours of racing an evening.
3. Most stay, a small portion leaves after the Late Models.
4. Must show up even before track packing and hot laps.
5. On huge events it can be 1, 2, 3, 04 four division shows. Weekly 5 to 7.
6. Usually from 20 minutes to 40 minutes depending on yellows and clean up.
7. Around 50 to 70 dollars.
8. From 25 to 40 clams.
9. Oh yes, the live streaming platforms are big, you have the king in my eyes, Flo Racing, then there is Lucas Oil Tv, Dirtvision, Speed 51, Dirt Digest and others.
10. For the most part it is smaller companies, engine, chassis, tire, speed shop, local business that feeds the dirt scene.
There is a multi-component that short track speedways, dirt or asphalt do well with, in no order. The back gate, you have your entry fees, not all tracks, and you have your adult and child pit passes. Figure in like at my track Talladega, you have 100 to 150 cars with drivers, then the crew pit passes and the non crew pit passes. Then you have your front gate admissions, adult, senior and child prices. Our track, 9 and under are free. Our weekly show is just $10.00. Then you have your concession stand, that folks is where your best profit margin is. Out prices at Talladega are fair, $3.25 for a cheeseburger, $3 for regular, grilled hot dogs for $2.00, fries $2 and all 16oz drinks are $2.00. You have 2 sources of concession income, the grandstands and pits. When all those come together you have a profitable track. We have large and free parking, you can bring in any size cooler just no glass. Beer, booze, wine, food and drinks all welcome at out track, we make it easy.
TopFuel@Lions
Talladega Announcer
Mark and Greg, thanks for the seriously good answers! This isn't an easy topic for discussion and I've already spent too much time trying to determine proper suggestions for improving the sport of drag racing and a way to pay racers properly.
When I was typing my normal long winded answers to each point and after reading it over, I realized most on here wouldn't like where I see a way to improve anything and that just means my ideas stink.
I thought I could be an asset in this discussion but I was wrong. So... until I can come up with anything better... I'll shut up.
When I was typing my normal long winded answers to each point and after reading it over, I realized most on here wouldn't like where I see a way to improve anything and that just means my ideas stink.
I thought I could be an asset in this discussion but I was wrong. So... until I can come up with anything better... I'll shut up.
Cliff
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Phil, I'd worry if you did NOT comment. You add to the discussions, Bro.
Jim
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I think this is the key. People know they can bring their families and have a nice evening of entertainment for a reasonable price. Bringing kids to watch 8 hours of drag racing can be a grind. 3 to 4 hours is ideal.
6-8 hours at an nhra nat. event is where the value is.....you are getting a LOT of hours of entertainment for a reasonable price.
just break the day up. half the day in the stands. half the day in pits/midway/concessions/souvenirs.
just break the day up. half the day in the stands. half the day in pits/midway/concessions/souvenirs.
Luke Nieuwhof
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But most people don't see it that way. A casual fan wants to believe they have got the full experience, without having to spend their entire day at an event. They will pay the same for a three hour ball game versus an eight hour drag race. The amount of time isn't important, it's the value of those hours.
To the casual fan, who might have only a passing interest in attending an event, an hour in the pits is more than enough (especially with a family in tow). Then they want to sit down and see action.
They would missing the magic of seeing the crew between rounds, I think mixing in more throughout the day is a more of a complete experience for any fan
Jim
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No, 6-8 hours is not where the value is for the casual fan who thinks going to a drag race might be a fun thing to do with their kids and spouse.
To a racer or devoted fan, longer may be better. But for the average fan, 3-4 hours is the perfect length.
Jim
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I've been at Norwalk for a Lucas Oil race and BIll Bader packs the stands on Saturday night. He does it by running all the stock and .90 classes during the day. Then they take a break and restart the program at 7 pm. The evening program featured Top Sportsman, Top Dragster. Top Alcohol Funny Car, Top Alcohol Dragster, wheelstanders, and jet cars. It is a 3-4 hour show that is full of action. The stands are empty during the day but filled for the 7 pm start. Bader knows the fans want 3-4 hours of great entertainment and don't want to spend another 4 hours walking the pits.
Jim
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Less is more!
We've raced a few times at Bradenton, FL's annual Night of Fire where we stayed at the track in our motorhome for a couple nights. We enjoyed our long days of getting tech'd, making time trial passes, then qualifying and eliminations plus watching the other classes. Long and busy weekends. One year we happened to be pitted close to the spectator parking lot entrance and just like Jim Samuel stated above, the bleachers were empty all day and around 6:30 to 7PM, the fans started pouring into the place. Since we were pitted right behind their bleachers, we ended up sitting with them after we both tanked second round. They saw a great show in about 3 hours and left smiling and happily talking about what they had just seen. It was obvious that the spectators sitting all around us were coming back again.
Compare that to the 8 years when I got free, full weekend, pit tickets to the Gatornationals. I took as many newbies as I could each year and I never got anyone to go twice. (Yes, I had showered.) Even with free great seats on the pit side. To a man, these were car guys. Just not the "hardcore" drag racing-car guys. They were Street Rodders, NASCAR fans, car show guys and mechanics who did know the names of the NHRA stars. None of those I took wanted to be rude so they always hem-hawed their way out of going the following year for another long but free day. (Well, except for my son, but he had no chance as he was hooked as a toddler and my wife didn't want to baby sit or go.)
Seriously, the day IS too long for the "average spectator" and NHRA has to find a new "average spectator" audience every year . It's my guess that if you were able to track all the ticket buyers at a major drag race for a couple of years, you would find that only about 30% return the following year. That number may be too generous. If all the folks that attended a major race came back the next year and only 25% brought a new friend, the tracks would have to add bleachers every couple of years. That is not what's happening. In business, it's always cheaper to keep the customer you already have than to develop new ones. We hardcore will "BE THERE!" Unfortunately, there are not enough hardcore left to support the expenses that have become the norm for the faster classes of drag racing.. The length of the day is why the bleachers are almost empty for final rounds at most all drag races.
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I agree with with you both that the average new fan can be burned out with to much time, my suggestion is to bring them the track with enough time to take a short look thru the pits and enough time to get in stands for final Elemanations with a least one visit to pits between rounds, back in stands for rest of rounds, I have had success with newbies that come back useing this format, only us hardcore junkies can take the long days
Cliff
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I'm reading all the posts. I keep thinking of Lions & OCIR, typical Sat night show. Started at either 6 PM or 7 PM and would go to around 11 PM or midnight in some cases. I remember thinking that we SoCal fans were spoiled; that we were getting basically a Nat'l event show on a Sat night. The night racing was important cuz 1. it was cooler 2. got to see the nitro flames. Never can figure out why NHRA won't run night races. Anyhoo, a show like I'm talking about, even once per month, was great entertainment. Stands were packed, so people knew they were getting value for money paid.
I do like the idea of running Sportsmen during the day and "the show" at night. If it was me running the night show, might make it all heads up classes (including alky) and maybe T/D & T/S (not heads up but they are fast). Well, just my 50 cents.... usta be 2 cents, but with inflation.....
I do like the idea of running Sportsmen during the day and "the show" at night. If it was me running the night show, might make it all heads up classes (including alky) and maybe T/D & T/S (not heads up but they are fast). Well, just my 50 cents.... usta be 2 cents, but with inflation.....
However... We still haven't addressed this thread's real topic: "Increasing the money paid out at drag races."
To increase the purse, the promoter’s income stream must also increase and the following is the only areas I can think of where it possibly could. Can you add a logical additional income stream to this list?
To increase the purse, the promoter’s income stream must also increase and the following is the only areas I can think of where it possibly could. Can you add a logical additional income stream to this list?
- Increased ticket sales.
- Increase advertising income.
- Increase ticket prices.
- Increase racer entry fees.
- Increase the gross and/or the net of concession and t-shirt type sales.
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This just came up this morning for me and is on topic as it pertains to what makes folks go or not go to a "promoted" drag race.
My son asked me to go with him tomorrow to watch the finals at the 50th Snowbirds at Bradenton.
My immediate response was "yes". Then after I hung up, I thought of what it's going to cost me. No, not in ticket cost. The price wasn't in the first 7 items that would really make my decision to go or not.
Here they are in no order of importance:
1. It's a two hour drive in crappy I-4 and I-75 traffic to get there. that's four hours round trip. Probably my gas and SUV.
2. I like the facility, but its still a heck of a long walk from the middle (or worse... the back) of the spectator parking lot to the bleachers and pits. (Hey, I'm old...)
3. The bleachers are backless, old, nasty wood, uncomfortable and low sloped so its sometimes a crappy view.
4. Bradenton's bleachers seem to always have some big morons who stand up in front of you for the all the stuff we really paid to see.
4. Our day at the track will be really long as it takes a minute for each pair in every eliminator to play their "John Force staging ritual" and I have to decide if I want to do that or just watch the classes I want to see on Flo Racing in the comfort of my home.
5. The concessions are just average for a drag strip which means the line will be long when I'm hungry/thirsty. ($$ isn't the issue. Quality food/drink and quick service is.)
6. The Pro Mods and other heads up classes are always great entertainment and educational. (Some show us what not to do.)
7. Bradenton is a track that typically caters to the racers over their spectators and when we were racing there, we loved that. But as a spectator, I don't love it so much as I know that 25% of our time will be either watching track prep or climbing up and down the crappy bleachers to either hit the port-a-potty, stand in the concession line or just possibly totally enjoy talking with some "friendlier" people in the pits. The other 75% will be spent waiting for the tree to come down while listening to hopefully good announcing (but sometimes not so good announcing).
8. Man, I sure have gotten crabby as an old guy. As a 20 year old I would have been there. Tomorrow... still not sure...?
(Drag strips need more 20 year olds... but they are probably looking at their cell phone in their mom's basement.)
I wonder what the ladies of any age would put on a list like this? What would anyone of any ticket buying age put on a list spouting their honest reasons why they would buy a ticket and go... or why they wouldn't?
Ignoring both #1 The drive and #6 The quality action on the track... The rest of the this list is exactly what I feel promoters have to overcome to draw larger paying crowds which would allow them to justify paying bigger purses to their drag race winners.
My son asked me to go with him tomorrow to watch the finals at the 50th Snowbirds at Bradenton.
My immediate response was "yes". Then after I hung up, I thought of what it's going to cost me. No, not in ticket cost. The price wasn't in the first 7 items that would really make my decision to go or not.
Here they are in no order of importance:
1. It's a two hour drive in crappy I-4 and I-75 traffic to get there. that's four hours round trip. Probably my gas and SUV.
2. I like the facility, but its still a heck of a long walk from the middle (or worse... the back) of the spectator parking lot to the bleachers and pits. (Hey, I'm old...)
3. The bleachers are backless, old, nasty wood, uncomfortable and low sloped so its sometimes a crappy view.
4. Bradenton's bleachers seem to always have some big morons who stand up in front of you for the all the stuff we really paid to see.
4. Our day at the track will be really long as it takes a minute for each pair in every eliminator to play their "John Force staging ritual" and I have to decide if I want to do that or just watch the classes I want to see on Flo Racing in the comfort of my home.
5. The concessions are just average for a drag strip which means the line will be long when I'm hungry/thirsty. ($$ isn't the issue. Quality food/drink and quick service is.)
6. The Pro Mods and other heads up classes are always great entertainment and educational. (Some show us what not to do.)
7. Bradenton is a track that typically caters to the racers over their spectators and when we were racing there, we loved that. But as a spectator, I don't love it so much as I know that 25% of our time will be either watching track prep or climbing up and down the crappy bleachers to either hit the port-a-potty, stand in the concession line or just possibly totally enjoy talking with some "friendlier" people in the pits. The other 75% will be spent waiting for the tree to come down while listening to hopefully good announcing (but sometimes not so good announcing).
8. Man, I sure have gotten crabby as an old guy. As a 20 year old I would have been there. Tomorrow... still not sure...?
(Drag strips need more 20 year olds... but they are probably looking at their cell phone in their mom's basement.)
I wonder what the ladies of any age would put on a list like this? What would anyone of any ticket buying age put on a list spouting their honest reasons why they would buy a ticket and go... or why they wouldn't?
Ignoring both #1 The drive and #6 The quality action on the track... The rest of the this list is exactly what I feel promoters have to overcome to draw larger paying crowds which would allow them to justify paying bigger purses to their drag race winners.
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well we can agree to disagree about how much time at an event is too much, too little, or just right. IMO it seems like the time a 'fan' wants to spend at an entertainment
event, whether sports or other, has maybe decreased over the years? but youth still flock to music festivals that last all day or multiple days, just as an example of something over the 3-4 hr. timeframe.
the overriding factor i still see is that money spent to enter an event should not be the end of spending. ...... i wonder if nhra has studied buying habits at nat. events?
once a fan enters, how much on average can be expected to be spent on food, beverage, and souvenirs?
to use round numbers, if a national event attracts 50k people over a 3 day event at average GA ticket price of $50, that is $2.5 million.
how do you get each fan to keep spending once in the event? do the math. spend another $50, it's another easy $2.5m gross. spend more. make more.
you can't spend sitting on an aluminum bleacher.
event, whether sports or other, has maybe decreased over the years? but youth still flock to music festivals that last all day or multiple days, just as an example of something over the 3-4 hr. timeframe.
the overriding factor i still see is that money spent to enter an event should not be the end of spending. ...... i wonder if nhra has studied buying habits at nat. events?
once a fan enters, how much on average can be expected to be spent on food, beverage, and souvenirs?
to use round numbers, if a national event attracts 50k people over a 3 day event at average GA ticket price of $50, that is $2.5 million.
how do you get each fan to keep spending once in the event? do the math. spend another $50, it's another easy $2.5m gross. spend more. make more.
you can't spend sitting on an aluminum bleacher.
