Who got screwed by the countdown? (1 Viewer)

[Jay]

I feel the worst for the teams 9th and on they never got the chance to move up .

I haven't been keeping track of the old points (I know someone on here has...) but it seems, without looking at it, that Melanie got really f@ck#d on this Countdown deal...Anyone know? She was coming on strong after Indy...And maybe would have been even stronger had she had a reason to be...

 

[Sully]

We have a Top Fuel "Champion" who lost in the first round at more than half of the races in 2007 and lost in the first round in three of the four "Countdown to Four" races. He shouldn't have even been in the viewfinder. Bad system - I don't recall a weekend at the races when I hated being there more than I did last weekend - it was a farce.

 

[turbo ken]

IMO the only things that got me excited after they cut down to the top 8 was when Miss Force made the F/C final in Vegas, if only she had a better light, and if only the blower belt would have stayed on Robert Hight would have been the F/C world champ this year, plus seeing 2 JFR cars in the Pomona final.

 

[Dave]

We have a Top Fuel "Champion" who lost in the first round at more than half of the races in 2007 and lost in the first round in three of the four "Countdown to Four" races. He shouldn't have even been in the viewfinder. Bad system - I don't recall a weekend at the races when I hated being there more than I did last weekend - it was a farce.

I agree Larry. Now I know I'm gonna catch Hell for this, but I feel it needs to be said. When this Countdown thing was announced at Indy last year, there were many opinions and comments to be sure. However, one comment stuck with me throughout this season to see how it would turn out. After NHRA made the announcement, Shirley Muldowney stated that she thought (as she put it) "Some Leaker" could win the championship under this system. Fast-forward to 2007. Having first round losses in more than half of the events is not what I would call a championship season. I would suspect if you asked any of the other drivers that had as many first round losses as "The Sarge", I doubt they would feel they deserved to be World Champion. I'm not going by past season performances, previous championships, past event wins, and/or past national records. Just going by 2007 round by round results in Top Fuel, I think Shirley might have been right.

Dave

 

[SAS]

I agree Larry. Now I know I'm gonna catch Hell for this, but I feel it needs to be said. When this Countdown thing was announced at Indy last year, there were many opinions and comments to be sure. However, one comment stuck with me throughout this season to see how it would turn out. After NHRA made the announcement, Shirley Muldowney stated that she thought (as she put it) "Some Leaker" could win the championship under this system. Fast-forward to 2007. Having first round losses in more than half of the events is not what I would call a championship season. I would suspect if you asked any of the other drivers that had as many first round losses as "The Sarge", I doubt they would feel they deserved to be World Champion. I'm not going by past season performances, previous championships, past event wins, and/or past national records. Just going by 2007 round by round results in Top Fuel, I think Shirley might have been right.

Dave

In 2007 a leaker did win it , when The Army team was told to shut off on the line because of a Leak ..... Alan Johnson paid no attention, and ran anyway
resulting in a Leaker winning.

 

[headporter]

well I had to think about this subject for a day to let it sink in..

First of all. whats really hard to understand is when Your new TF champ says on TV many times during the Telecast. that the Team reguarded this season as a BAD season.. now this was before the finals.. After watching and seeing all this unfold on TV.. what I think was LOST in all this was WHO actually won the RACE. Hardly a Mentions in any Press report I seen did it say WOW 2 JFR car in the final and won the race.

Ok so sure Army wins race and crown just like last year. wow AJ even put up a good number to make it look good. wow how exciting it was to LAST week see them ***** out and make idiots of themself on TV and then go on to win.


How did you like the look on Garys face when they asked him about the Championship.. Ya like that was your normal Gary. NOT.

Same as Jegs (btw Congrads Jeggy) who won PS.. not much mentioned.

And well again Congrads to Tony P. for the FC Crown.. he went rounds all season. as he said he was under the radar. and he had it almost in the bag in Vegas.

The worst thing about the TV coverage was all the up back sideways talk for the WHOLE show every second about what IF's.. the actual race it self had no meaning. They did FAR less blow by blow comentating on the actual runs being made. Like no one said once Brandon B. put out a cylinder in his race.

Nuff said..



Now for MY Idea on next years Run for the count down..

I am a Paying sponser of a Drag car... Ok MR Don P. or DSR or Mr Budwiser or Mr Ship it UPS or MTS..

Heres the Plan... after watching all season of the progress you have made as a team. Very good job and all and we will be happy to Pay you 2-3 million for running our Name on your car.. However we are now in better position to see how NHRA has screwed the fans on tv with Improper TV times and also LACK of TV our Target is looking for.. Heres the deal..

We will pay you the Price your asking for the year.. BUT we are only going to PAY you IF you get to the final 8 countdown.. so for the whole begining of the year.. we don't need our name on your car. Because even as MR UPS said he got NO tv coverage before things started moving for him.. so we can't waste time with nonsense. so when you get your car in the countdown we will cut check 1.. make it 4 we cut a really big check for the final couple races.

Enjoy the races people. I am sure the people who pay the Bills sure don't like this NONSENSE.

Last but not least. I wonder IF the track was sprayed in front of CERTAIN RACERS with a certain compond to lose traction so they DIDN'T WIN this year. Has any one ever collected track coating samples to see the variance in it during a race... LOL gee good Idea Bob I wonder if Lanny will be Bagging sample scrapes of the track during the season next year. Now theres your 20 cents worth to type about for the winter BS sessions.

 

[Nitrohaulic]

Nobody got screwed. They all knew the points system changed going in. Those that don't like it can always move over to IHRA.

I will once again refer to Frank Oglesby (who builds a darned nice flowbench according to Austin Coil).

Your other point--NO one has to do this-- your memory is pretty short as here is how the deal went down----Kenny Bernstein at PRO was the ONLY RACER to know about this before hand and KEPT THIS TO HIS SELF while serving as the head of PRO---Bernstein should be tarred and feathered and ran out of the sport by his fellow racers as what he did was inconceivable.
ALL the Nitro teams by the time they even heard of this deal HAD THEIR PLANS IN PLACE FOR THIS YEAR and were basically coerced into putting a "Happy Face" on this years fiasco.
We will see how this all plays out in the future but remember the biggest balance of power change in Drag Race history took place when HD bought the PRO part of nhra.
With out the PRO TEAMS they basicly paid 121M for about 40M worth of real estate.
For the record I had been a member of nhra about 35 years before Tom Compton saw his first drag Race so no one has more respect for Drag Racing than I but I still won't drink the coolade.
Frank

iB::Topic::CAPTURE THE COUNTDOWN!

 

[merc49]

I'm gonna wait until P.J. tells me what's what! P.J., are you out there? Help?

 

[Nitrohaulic]

I'm gonna wait until P.J. tells me what's what! P.J., are you out there? Help?

Ha! ( whoops, it says I have to have at least ten characters here. Where will I find ten characters when that's all I want to say? Won't those other ten characters be "token" characters? Doesn't that cheapen the post? I mean.... )

 

[downtime]

Nobody got "screwed".

This year the qualifications for becoming the champion were different than in previous years. Basically it was a different game with different milestones and different variables. Every champion fully deserved their title and to those who did not win it was more heartbreaking than usual, but it was a different game with different rules and that is just how it worked.

I remember when the champions were crowned at the World Finals, a one race shot to determine the champion, before the modern points era. When the points came into being it was hailed as a good thing by the racers.

This time NHRA decided on a format that actually did not synchronize with a system that has been successfully in existence for many years. That was the only mistake, in my opinion.

Had the new format been executed in a manner consistent with the old points system, nobody would be complaining.

The failure, in my opinion, is simply the lack of integrity that has been introduced to the concept os "season champion".

Unlike the baseball or football playoffs, the system introduced by NHRA allowed teams not involved with the championship to continue to compete (I know they felt they had to do it this way), and that factor undermined the credibility and integrity of the Countown.

The problem was purely mathematical and I believe rests fully on the shoulders of the people responsible for determining the format and deciding on its implementation. It should not take a rocket scientists to have figured out the odds of something like this happening.

That said, I want everyone to know that the professionals who were crowned 2007 Champions are evry bit as worthy as those who some may say "should" have been champs. It was a different game and those who won played it better and more successfully than their competitors.

This should not be a whining or argumentative discussion, in my opinion, but a conversation about how to improve the Countdown concept to the benefit of all concerned, Racers, Fans, and the NHRA for the betterment of our sport.

 

[BlueStangGT]

In 2007 a leaker did win it , when The Army team was told to shut off on the line because of a Leak ..... Alan Johnson paid no attention, and ran anyway
resulting in a Leaker winning.

Huh? What incident was this?

 

[Paul]

Huh? What incident was this?

I think he is referring to last year. I was hoping no one would notice so we don't have to go down this road again. He must fail to remember the incident occurred in qualifying and Tony smoked the tires anyway, so the incident had no impact to last years title.

 

[PJ]

The only way to accept the countdown is to accept that the nhra championship is no longer about who has had the best season, basically it no longers means greatness. They've taken the competition out of racing and made it an entertainment contest. Lets just go the monster truck route and let fans in the stands hold of signs assigning points. It would have as much menaing as a coutndown champion.

Shoe, Tony P and Jeg each would have finished 3rd


People who lost out by the system (place they would have finsihed then were they did)
Melanie 7th (9)
Doug K 8th (10)
Fuller 1 (2)
Dixon 2 (4)
Todd 5 (7)

Hight 1
capss 2
Del 8

Greg 1
Connolly 2
Stevens 7
v gaines 8


People who were helped by the countdown place they finished vs were they would have been

Tony S 1 (3)
Tony p 1 (3)
Herbert 6 (out of top 10)
Jeg 1 (3)
Bazemore 8 (10)
WJ 8 (10)
Larry Morgan 7 (9)
Head 8 (9)
Scelzi 3 (4)
Vandergriff 5 (6)

 

[Nitrohaulic]

Nobody got "screwed".

This year the qualifications for becoming the champion were different than in previous years. Basically it was a different game with different milestones and different variables. Every champion fully deserved their title and to those who did not win it was more heartbreaking than usual, but it was a different game with different rules and that is just how it worked.

I remember when the champions were crowned at the World Finals, a one race shot to determine the champion, before the modern points era. When the points came into being it was hailed as a good thing by the racers.

This time NHRA decided on a format that actually did not synchronize with a system that has been successfully in existence for many years. That was the only mistake, in my opinion.

Had the new format been executed in a manner consistent with the old points system, nobody would be complaining.

The failure, in my opinion, is simply the lack of integrity that has been introduced to the concept os "season champion".

Unlike the baseball or football playoffs, the system introduced by NHRA allowed teams not involved with the championship to continue to compete (I know they felt they had to do it this way), and that factor undermined the credibility and integrity of the Countown.

The problem was purely mathematical and I believe rests fully on the shoulders of the people responsible for determining the format and deciding on its implementation. It should not take a rocket scientists to have figured out the odds of something like this happening.

That said, I want everyone to know that the professionals who were crowned 2007 Champions are evry bit as worthy as those who some may say "should" have been champs. It was a different game and those who won played it better and more successfully than their competitors.

This should not be a whining or argumentative discussion, in my opinion, but a conversation about how to improve the Countdown concept to the benefit of all concerned, Racers, Fans, and the NHRA for the betterment of our sport.

NHRA's first nitro funny car champ lives about five minutes from me. While it's something I love to point out about him, I also realize it was in the "national championship" infancy of the sport and, I believe that going to what we now call the "traditional" method of determining a champ was a good change. I wonder what the online debates would have been like at that time if there'd been an internet?

Yeah, I'm sure we'd all HATE to see nitro funny cars brought back to the divisional races. It wouldn't do ANYTHING for the attendance numbers.

 

[Alan]

second round loss (Hines - possible malfunction?).

No malfunction.....I hope no one tried that as a reason for Hines to lose. The bike rolled out of the beams.

 

[Bullard Anderson]

As long as the stats were calculated correctly I guess no one got screwed.
After all, I'm pretty sure each driver left the line in Round 1 of qualifying in Pomona back in February knowing what they had to do to earn a title.

 

[stanman]

... Nothing worse than half the championship in-the-bag by Maple Grove.

Kindly remind us when that happened last!?!?

 

[Nick Name]

The only way to accept the countdown is to accept that the nhra championship is no longer about who has had the best season, basically it no longers means greatness. They've taken the competition out of racing and made it an entertainment contest. Lets just go the monster truck route and let fans in the stands hold of signs assigning points. It would have as much menaing as a coutndown champion.

Shoe, Tony P and Jeg each would have finished 3rd


People who lost out by the system (place they would have finsihed then were they did)
Melanie 7th (9)
Doug K 8th (10)
Fuller 1 (2)
Dixon 2 (4)
Todd 5 (7)

Hight 1
capss 2
Del 8

Greg 1
Connolly 2
Stevens 7
v gaines 8


People who were helped by the countdown place they finished vs were they would have been

Tony S 1 (3)
Tony p 1 (3)
Herbert 6 (out of top 10)
Jeg 1 (3)
Bazemore 8 (10)
WJ 8 (10)
Larry Morgan 7 (9)
Head 8 (9)
Scelzi 3 (4)
Vandergriff 5 (6)

OK, there you go. This is what I was looking for when I started this thread. So basically all of the pro cars got the shaft, what about PSB?Jay

 

[Jim]

Here you go....

http://http://www.nitromater.com/nhra/11439-countdown-poll.html

Jay,
I wasn't able to follow that link.

However, a poll taken on Nitromater could hardly be considered scientific or statistically significant sampling of ALL NHRA MEMBERS.

BTW: I did review the poll posted after the Finals and, just the way the question was posed "The CRAPDOWN" ?? was just a tad biased. Wouldn't you agree?

 

[Rajunz]

We all have, and are certainly entiltled to our opinions, Rich....With the polls showing 80%+ of fans NOT liking the countown, thats tough to ignore...

Lance....If you don't have something nice to say, then don't say anything...I don't believe anyone asked for you to post a comment here, did they?

I dunno Jay, according to your post yesterday, we're NOT all entitled to our opinions!

I wonder how many less World Championships Garlits would have won under this system.

Or how many MORE he would have won??? He was usually hot at the end of the season!

..............I believe that going to what we now call the "traditional" method of determining a champ was a good change. I wonder what the online debates would have been like at that time if there'd been an internet?

Probably not nearly as bad as when the NFL decided to go to a playoff system in 1946 to crown their Champions..............I'll bet they had many PJ's back then!