War of Words In Charlotte

[Bobby Bennett]

To get back on topic, this has been stewing for a while --

May 14, 2011 report

GREASE ‘EM UP - If the squeaky wheel gets the grease, Pro Stock Motorcyle rider Shawn Gann, who rides a Buell, is ready to make more than his fair share of noise regarding the Harley-Davidson combination.

Suffice to say Gann isn’t a fan of the domination Harley-Davidson has shown in the first two races of the 2011 season.

“They come out of the trailer with their chest poked out like they are the s*** when everyone else in the class has their hands tied behind their backs,” Gann erupted. “You can really be the s*** when you’re racing like that. That’s a real fair a**whipping contest.”

Eddie Krawiec and Andrew Hines have won the first two events of the sixteen-race Full Throttle Series. In qualifying, a Buell [Gainesville] and Suzuki [Houston] have paced the fields.

“They have the most technologically advanced bikes on the property while the rest of us are still mowing the grass with our 1941 John Deere lawnmowers.”

Gann doesn’t take kindly to the advice of those who suggest the other combinations need to work harder.

“That’s the biggest bunch of bulls*** I’ve ever heard,” Gann exclaimed. “That’s a clam. Hide behind that bs they let you hide behind. They can do what we can’t. It’s all covered up in the rulebook. If you let a Ford do what they did and not a Chevy, there would be a fistfight in the pits. Because it’s a motorcycle and Byron [Hines[] it’s okay.”

RACERS BELIEVE PARITY IS OFF AGAIN
http://www.competitionplus.com/drag-racing/news/15571-psm-riders-fear-class-parity-off-again 9-18-2011

TERRY VANCE RESPONDS
http://www.competitionplus.com/drag-racing/news/15611-terry-vance-responds-to-allegations 9-23-2010

 

[Dave]

Simple solution? Nobody else shows up. Let's see how long NHRA will run the PSM class with only 2 Harley's competing every week. If you come to race you basically are saying I don't agree with the rules but... I don't have anything else to do so I'll come race. Don't like it then just don't do it! There are plenty of other venues to go race at. Form your own Anti-Harley drag association.

 

[.]

TERRY VANCE RESPONDS
TERRY VANCE RESPONDS TO ALLEGATIONS 9-23-2010

And, the fact most Pro Stock Motorcycle racers are still mainly in the 6.90-second range is something Vance addressed.

“I think that you have to remember that it is NHRA’s goal, I believe, to keep the bikes somewhere close to where they are for safety reasons and also performance reasons,” Vance said. “I think you also have to remember that we’re using a 10-inch tire and we always have. So, you can make a little bit more power and maybe push it a little bit harder at the other end, but if you only have 10 inches to leave the starting line, you’re only going to have 60-foot times that are so good. It also takes a lot of power to make a difference on a motorcycle as far as elapsed times go.”

That's funny, because the guys in the the Pro Street class are running 7.0's - 7.10's at 200+ mph on a DOT street tire a lot smaller than 10" without a wheelie bar and doing it safely.

 

[my friends call me Zappy]

One min. weight + 0ne max cu.in. = parity solved.

 

[funny1]

Leaving Facebook... | Facebook

 

[Lisa]

Just two examples:


There are many others I personally witnessed when doing top end interviews for TV. The fact is, when drivers get frustrated enough about the lack of performance and consistency in their cars, they will speak their minds. That's not a bad thing. The fans, the media, the crew, and anyone with any appreciation for the pressure that goes along with the job would understand.

Your original point was that they wouldn't say anything to offend or insult their crew--regardless of whether they owned the team or not. I've seen hired drivers lose their cool when things aren't going well. My point is there's a way to express those frustrations in a manner that's honest without sounding like a disgruntled cry baby.

So true! I asked my husband if it would bother him if his driver said something like that on TV. His response...as a crew member...."No way. If the car is running like crap it is. It wouldn't be a big secret." These guys have pretty thick skin...which is why they can do what they do day after day.

I am all for the honesty in interviews. I want to see a driver have passion and I want to see them WANT to win. Not for sponsors or owners or anyone else besides themselves. No one likes losing and in those situations with so much on the line why should their emotion be watered down? Heck I know how upset I get when they don't win....I can't imagine being a driver and feeling like I have to reign in that emotion. I can't wait to see more of it on TV.

 

[Mooseman]

Richard Tharp once said something that I think is still relevant to this day regarding racing and winning.

He said "Winning isn't everything but losing is nothing" I think theres alot of truth there, you don't have to win every race but there is no joy in losing.

 

[Bobby Bennett]

If you didn't listen to WFO on Tuesday, you missed this little gem.

http://www.competitionplus.com/drag-racing/news/19087-free-lunch-one-stipulation-say-it-to-my-face

FREE LUNCH, ONE STIPULATION - SAY IT TO MY FACE

 

[sdwarf36]

My take on things:
Does V+H have an advantage over the rest of the field? Sure-anything they do or any changes they make are pre-approved by NHRA. Where anyone else who tried to step up the game was told to "bring us the witches broom!" ( Gann with the billet head-Schumacher stopped dead in his tracks over the 'busas tranny-etc.)
Are the V-rods really quicker? They certianlly should be. V+H have been at the top of their field forever. Lets not forget they won last years championship-with a Suzuki. Matt Smith was *itching about their big back 1/2 numbers years ago.
Whats in it for V+H? Well they already lease out most of the Suzuki motors in the field-and I'm sure HD stipulates all "interlectual property" belongs to them. If they pulled their money out tomorrow, V+H would be stuck with a cow-and wouldn't be able to sell any milk. I'll bet they thought this in advance and are getting well paid for their services. (Lets not forget they were once sponsored by Suzuki-and anything they learned on their dime they are still making money off of.)
So why is this back in the news now? Good question. My money is on a slow news day so to speak. This is OLD news-its been around far longer than Jerry S. But its easier to call someone a poo-poo head than win races to get you mic time. Whats the most shown hilight of drag racing over the last 10 years? Force vs. Pedregon shove-fest.
Is this made up-or do the racers really dislike each other? Oh--i'm sure the discontent is real.
So who wins? 1: I would say Harley. For the few of us that care, we know this is as far removed from a stock bike as can be-but to "Bubba", he is hearing everyone wants a Harley becuase they are soooo fast.
2: The class. As much as I hate the drama, others here on 'mater have said that they never followed PS/B close till now. And look-its Friday and we are still talking bikes-rather than just the haters wanting Pro Mods instead. And I bet ESPN is already planning follow ups for this week -to be shown on Sat AND Sun.. (Note: Besides last week, when was the last time you saw a show START with PS/B?)

 

[Rajunz]

......I appreciate your passion, I really do. But George is spinning it his way. I’m not calling him a liar but he isn’t telling the whole story either. If Harley won’t approve his design, that is a Harley issue, not an NHRA issue.........
Alan

Actually, if Harley won't approve his design, it really is an NHRA issue. They are the rule makers, they need to stand behind the rules and enforce them........

 

[Bobby Bennett]

http://www.competitionplus.com/drag-racing/news/19064-hines-the-critics-can-chew-on-crow

HINES: CRITICS CAN CHEW ON CROW

 

[.]

http://www.competitionplus.com/drag-racing/news/19064-hines-the-critics-can-chew-on-crow

HINES: CRITICS CAN CHEW ON CROW

And not one mention from him on why he and Eddie are the only two that can run Harley's. He says nothing about why parts aren't available for other racers. Maybe he should get a job in government, he's good at spinning.

 

[4g63rwd]

Ordinarily I don't take too much interest in anything V-Rod because I'm a 4 piston fan to the heart, but NHRA's silence and what Vance and Hines ISN'T saying has officially piqued my interest in this whole situation. Is there a leader of the Pro Stock Motorcycle riders who basically speaks for the whole class when dealing with the NHRA? If so, what's being done by that individual to ensure that certain teams don't have a monopoly on certain parts? I thought that whatever parts are used to make these things tick had to be available to EVERYONE? I mean, even if they just sell a blank 4 valve head (without all their secret tricks inside) to everyone else, that would be more acceptable than not allowing anyone else to use one at all! I think the non-Screamin' Eagle riders in the class deserve some answers!

 

[sdwarf36]

" We play by what the NHRA gives us. I don't see anything in the rulebook that says we have to sell our stuff. We're just out here doing what we do."

Nor is there anything in the rule book that say a 160 cu in Vtwin with dohc 4 valve engine is an acceptible combo that anyone else can run....

Anyone else remember when VHR started with HD? (right after HD became the official bike of NHRA) They said right off the motors would be available "after they finished R+D" Think they're done yet?

 

[twostep]

Does everyone here still feel the same now? Now that the Harleys got their walking papers in round 2 and a Suzi won the race?

Say it to my face, eh? That's always easy to say when your adversary ISN'T saying it to your face. As for the smack talking in general, I'm down with it....PSM needs a steroid shot anyway.

 

[Johnny Mopar]

That's funny right there.....this is the 4th page of a thread about PSM...go back to sleep.

That's funny Mark. I realize that it appears that I follow PSB, but I don't. I was attracted to this thread by it's title..."War of Words in Charlotte". For me, the class is still a snoozer. I would submit that until the stands fill up with people watching the class, whatever is happening in the class isn't of much concern. That's why people get up, leave, and go get a hot dog and a coke when they run.

 

[Crash]

I don't have a current NHRA rulebook, so I can't look for myself. I will ask for the 3rd time in this thread....does the rulebook say that only V&H can run a Harley? If I showed up with a Harley that met the rules and passed tech, would I be allowed to run?
Is the problem that Harley only grants "OE" part numbers to V&H parts? That way V&H has the monopoly without NHRA having squat to do with it. You can't use a GM block that you cast yourself, unless GM has granted you a part number....same deal here, right? You can submit a part to Harley for approval, but if they say no, for whatever reason, you are SOL. Seems the HARLEY/V&H group is operating within the rules. I don't think it is the best sportsmanship, but it is using the rules to your advantage....

 

[twostep]

I'd say everything is pretty even, a lot closer than the parity nightmare that went on for years in TAD. So far in 2011, it's HD 6, Suzuki 6. The quickest pass ever for a Harley is 6.81; Suzuki, 6.82. Both brands have run 197MPH. And the all-time quickest pass in history comes from a Buell.

I'm all for the different combinations. I'd like to see it in other Pro classes. I'd sit up and pay attention to Larry Morgan running a blown 5.4 Mustang, wouldn't you? Or a nitro car running an LSX-based engine?

 

[James]

I want to thank James for what he wrote about reading my posts. I also want to thank his mom, dad, and family for raising such a great person. Ya know, there are a lot of really great people out there who read this board but James is really one of the better ones and I take my hat off to him. I can't say enough about the job he does and I have a lot of respect for him.

Now THAT'S acting!

I don't get it? was suppose to be a compliment to ya,but whatever.

 

[.]

I don't have a current NHRA rulebook, so I can't look for myself. I will ask for the 3rd time in this thread....does the rulebook say that only V&H can run a Harley? If I showed up with a Harley that met the rules and passed tech, would I be allowed to run?
Is the problem that Harley only grants "OE" part numbers to V&H parts? That way V&H has the monopoly without NHRA having squat to do with it. You can't use a GM block that you cast yourself, unless GM has granted you a part number....same deal here, right? You can submit a part to Harley for approval, but if they say no, for whatever reason, you are SOL. Seems the HARLEY/V&H group is operating within the rules. I don't think it is the best sportsmanship, but it is using the rules to your advantage....

V&H and Harley have to approve anything, without their approval you can't run it. According to George Bryce just the body is on back-order for the next 10 years. If George Bryce had to have Buell engine parts available (he sold 67 complete engines and 16 bikes) to the public for sale then why doesn't V&H have to do the same? Since V&H are the only ones that can currently run a Harley how do we know they're not sandbagging? We can't, until somebody else is allowed to run one and see what they'll really run when the throttle-stop is removed.

I'd say everything is pretty even, a lot closer than the parity nightmare that went on for years in TAD. So far in 2011, it's HD 6, Suzuki 6. The quickest pass ever for a Harley is 6.81; Suzuki, 6.82. Both brands have run 197MPH. And the all-time quickest pass in history comes from a Buell.

Your Harley vs. Suzuki numbers seem fair until you realize that there's only 2 Harley's running against several Suzuki's, and V&H is building many of the Suzuki engines. Another team should be able to run a Harley to see what they'll really run without sandbagging.