War of Words In Charlotte

[PDQ]

I thought when NHRA changed some rules a couple of years back Vance and Hines got some parts grandfather in that no one else could use. I thought that is what George Bryce was upset about. Was it the 4 valve head design or do the Buells run 4 valve heads also?

 

[Rat]

But it's a mute point. NHRA does it's best to even competition, but again it's a mute point. You can buy AJPE parts but are you getting the same as what they have? of course AJ releases it after he's run it and has the upper hand. You cannot buy DSR stuff. Everyteam has there own developments that other teams just cannot buy or get. People said the same about Force being the only team running ford body years ago, it was never the body that gave him the wins. I think teams need to stop thinking guy A has a secret or breaking rules and just work more on their stuff

 

[Billy]

I think yer right Norm. Just a pittyfull atempt to generate interest in the bikes. Note I don't call them pro, it's been a handicap class for years.

Hope Mr. Stephans is happy with the drama. I can see it now in the spring:
new TV show...REAL BIKE RACERS OF NHRA".

Here's what I'm happy about. Racers opening up to not hiding behind the politically-correct facade with which they have been shielding their true feelings wih for a long time. The only premise which my seminar and subsequent input had promoted has been to get the professional racers to be MORE HONEST, not less. As has been pointed out by others, the controversies in PSB have been going on since I began covering the NHRA in 1994 and before. Weight breaks, 2-valve, 4-valve, 2-stroke, 4-stroke, Steve Johnson's disqualification at Indy several years ago, cylinder heads, Harley vs Buell vs Suzuki, etc.

The racers have now been encouraged to be racers, not PR choir boys. They have been urged to express whatever disagreements and issues they've been unwilling to reveal in the past. The NHRA has taken the same stance, to a degree, as NASCAR in the sense, "Have at it, boys." Don't get physical, don't assault or threaten an NHRA official, don't get obscene. But the expression of emotion, agitation directed at other racers in the heat of battle, and keeping it real are all on the table.

Drag racers are not actors. Neither are NASCAR drivers yet their issues and conflicts have been spilling over at almost every race. Are their confrontations genuine and the ones in the NHRA fabricated? There isn't a drag racer I know who would try to create some phony dustup at the expense of his credibility.

This discussion is proof that when racers have a beef with each other, it causes a buzz and fans take sides, defend their position, and are willing to defend it. Are you fans who are on this board just faking it? Are you just trying to whip up a controversy? Are you just hyping up your comments or are you really expressing your feelings and emotions?

 

[Mooseman]

Why is it whenever anything like this happens in any class, people call it "scripted" and "hype" and compare it to wwf. I mean seriously I have forgotten how many times on here where I have read threads where people want less corporate political correct sponsor naming drivers but then when drivers or in this case riders do say their oppinion this happens.

 

[Shoefan]

Kudos to Alan Reinhart for giving us the truth. I wish everyone would stop bashing the Screamin' Eagle Team. Looking at 2011 wins, HD has 5, Suzuki has 5 and Buell has 2. Seems like the guys complaining about HD are running Suzuki motors. They have just as many wins, and up until yesterday they had more wins than Eddie and Andrew did! If anything, I would think the Buell guys should be complaining.

 

[TR]

Drag racers are not actors? You mean professional or amateur? There are a couple out there that are auditioning quite a bit, if they aren't actors.

Rick

 

[James]

Here's what I'm happy about. Racers opening up to not hiding behind the politically-correct facade with which they have been shielding their true feelings wih for a long time. The only premise which my seminar and subsequent input had promoted has been to get the professional racers to be MORE HONEST, not less. As has been pointed out by others, the controversies in PSB have been going on since I began covering the NHRA in 1994 and before. Weight breaks, 2-valve, 4-valve, 2-stroke, 4-stroke, Steve Johnson's disqualification at Indy several years ago, cylinder heads, Harley vs Buell vs Suzuki, etc.

The racers have now been encouraged to be racers, not PR choir boys. They have been urged to express whatever disagreements and issues they've been unwilling to reveal in the past. The NHRA has taken the same stance, to a degree, as NASCAR in the sense, "Have at it, boys." Don't get physical, don't assault or threaten an NHRA official, don't get obscene. But the expression of emotion, agitation directed at other racers in the heat of battle, and keeping it real are all on the table.

Drag racers are not actors. Neither are NASCAR drivers yet their issues and conflicts have been spilling over at almost every race. Are their confrontations genuine and the ones in the NHRA fabricated? There isn't a drag racer I know who would try to create some phony dustup at the expense of his credibility.

This discussion is proof that when racers have a beef with each other, it causes a buzz and fans take sides, defend their position, and are willing to defend it. Are you fans who are on this board just faking it? Are you just trying to whip up a controversy? Are you just hyping up your comments or are you really expressing your feelings and emotions?

When i read what you write,i read it in your voice,lol.

 

[Mark]

It's not a stupid argument, it's a fact. Yes you can buy a DRCE casting and machine your own head, but you can't but the finished part that Greg and Jason run. The V&H parts are billet, but yourself a chunck of iron or aluminum and make your own. Nobody "Made" George sell anything, George was was always in the engine business and the S&S project was no exception.

You also can't buy the heads the JFR makes, or DSR that has an exclusive deal with a manufacturer, but you can buy aluminum blanks and make your own.

Nobody ever made Bob Glidden, or WJ sell engines, and there were people with BIG checkbooks that wanted to buy them.

If you want a Harley that bad, read the rulebook, make the investment and build your own. That's what V&H did.

Alan

Alan, you know I love you man and yes Pam did get my shirt off the sales rack at Kohls but your dead wrong on this issue.
Your right in that Greg and Jason don't have to sell their engine to anyone, I don't have to sell my finished product to anyone either. But if I was an approved manufacturer for mandated parts for use in NHRA Pro Stock/ Pro Stock Motorcycle I'd have to make those parts available to anyone that wanted them.
This is out there but maybe you'll see my point, Lets say Greg and Jason designed a 750 CI all billet aluminum, double over head cam 4 valve engine that was bad to the bone and were able to talk NHRA into letting ONLY them run it against the cast iron 500 inch push rod engines........I might be wrong but I don't believe you or anyone else would see the fairness in that.
We need the diversity in brand.....it would be even better if we had more, Honda, Kawasaki, Victory but I can't see any OEM wanting to come out here and play given the current rules and absolute lack of marketing opportunity for them.
Blake Gann built a really nice 2 valve billet head for our Suzuki application, NHRA shot it down......this was 2008 I believe, the head's that are approved for us to run were approved in 1998.....same head that we ran on the 92 inch motor when all this BS started.

 

[Billy]

When i read what you write,i read it in your voice,lol.

I want to thank James for what he wrote about reading my posts. I also want to thank his mom, dad, and family for raising such a great person. Ya know, there are a lot of really great people out there who read this board but James is really one of the better ones and I take my hat off to him. I can't say enough about the job he does and I have a lot of respect for him.

Now THAT'S acting!

 

[.]

Here's some from Matt and Angie:
*courtesy HighSide Media

[vbtube]vYeNamIj9VU[/vbtube]

Angie is hot

 

[mike]

I want to thank James for what he wrote about reading my posts. I also want to thank his mom, dad, and family for raising such a great person. Ya know, there are a lot of really great people out there who read this board but James is really one of the better ones and I take my hat off to him. I can't say enough about the job he does and I have a lot of respect for him.

Now THAT'S acting!

OK...but what's my post worth?

 

[.]

Alan Reinhart, I guess you're basically calling George Bryce a liar?

The following are direct quotes from George Bryce (owner of Star Racing, for those that don't know), somebody who I guarantee knows his **** about bikes:
https://www.facebook.com/george.bryce/posts/2399241871467

Tom, I offered to buy one..so did several others here...They do not want Star Racing or Hector or Smith to have one to show others how fast they will really go. They have control of the class even more now...They have a good running Buell, a good running Suzuki and the ONLY Harleys...watch and see how this plays out in the next few races..it is scripted...sorry IMHO..OBTW..I am NOT mad at Eddie...he has a good job.

James, everyone can run a Pontiac...even you can have one and win with it...the NHRA ruels have it so ONLY VHR can have a Harley..YOU cant have one James even if you won the lottery

We were told by Harley and NHRA and VHR that we can NOT build a Harley!!!! ONLY VHR can have a Harley....James, IF Greg Anderson's team was the ONLY one that have or run a Pontiac...then you would understand...I am sorry you dont get it.

WE did build the Buell to race VHR in 2004 and we beat them with it....then they Lobbied NHRA to get the ultimate advantage..no pushrods...and 4 valves per cylinder..and we asked for the same...and we did not have enough money to buy the rules...truth hurts man!

Listen....this is my day job..this IS my life..we SOLD 67 S&S Buell engines to the public...PER NHRA rules...we sold 16 turnkey Buell race bikes...to grow the class...it worked!!!! I just wish they would sell 1 or 2 of the Vroids to someone NOT controled by VHR

We were TOLD that we could NOT race, unless we SOLD them to ANYONE...Harley and VHR are the ONLY ones in ALL of NHRA that is NOT required to sell the bikes, bodies and engines to others...All Pro Stock teams, cars or bikes, MUST use the same bodies, blocks and heads...BUT VHR!!!!!! Sorry it is TRUE..argue, disagree...it is true.

This not sour grapes.....sorry if it looks or sounds like it...I think it is fair for all of the NHRA fans to know the REAL deal....instead of what is put out there on TV...We raced NHRA for 20 years Straight and we won 78 National events..when we pulled out..NOT one person from NHRA wrote or called and asked "whats up?" NONE

We were told we HAD to sell "Numbers" of them and to NOT price them out of reach...Sorry it is true...I said what about VHR? I was told that is a rule that was "Grandfathered" in. And that this was the new rule! IT IS TRUE!!!!!!

I am not mad with Eddie, good job keepin your cool and drivin good today, Eddie..I want a bike like Eddie has..or at least a chance to build one like it...BUT Harley and VHR wont let us!!!! KB racing is winning alot too...but at least Mike Edwads can have one to work on.

Okay, good enough...Just understand...As smart as Byron is and the budget they have...If you think that VHR Suzuki customers will run better than them.....AND that we ran several 6.8s 5 years ago with a pushrod 2 valve S&S production engine..that Byron cant go faster than the current 2 valve, 11 inch long pushrod engine, in the Buells,...with his 4 valve..no pushrod double overhead cam engine...then you are new to this game...and I am not...

Alan, you get it yet?

 

[.]

And a good quote from PSM crew chief Mark Peiser:

If we really want to blame someone for these rules issues, you could throw your rocks in a lot of directions. NHRA most of all for letting this happen, HD for creating the situation and V&H for cashing the checks. I feel 100% that V&H got into this wanting to sell engines and parts, somewhere along the way HD decided they only wanted 2 of them, NHRA for what ever absurd, idiotic reasons agrees to it and V&H after realizing their not going to be able to sell what they produced says OK but we'll still cash your checks and race the bikes. V&H are way to smart to think they could do this and no rocks would be thrown, their also way to smart to need an absurd rules advantage to win races, they've won on anything they decided to race straight up with equal rules. Their playing by the rules, problem is they have a big hand in writing the rule book......believe that. I don't blame Andrew or Eddie, their doing what their paid to do, Andrew actually won some rounds on a Suzuki before he jumped on the Harley, I've ridden dirt bikes with Andrew and he's got skills, Eddie never qualified on a Suzuki, won the PSB Lottery and got a ride with V&H, he's doin a good job now after years of coaching.....IMHO he wouldn't be able to get it done on a Suzuki......and with out looking up the numbers I doubt any other pro class racer cut a .088 light in the semis and won the round. I'm sure with the Cubic inch and tourqe of the HD you can miss a few shift points and still be fast......can't do that on a Suzuki.....you've got to drive it right to get a good ET.

I like his shot at big mouth Eddie K.

 

[PJ]

Kudos to Alan Reinhart for giving us the truth. I wish everyone would stop bashing the Screamin' Eagle Team. Looking at 2011 wins, HD has 5, Suzuki has 5 and Buell has 2. Seems like the guys complaining about HD are running Suzuki motors. They have just as many wins, and up until yesterday they had more wins than Eddie and Andrew did! If anything, I would think the Buell guys should be complaining.

Watch what they do now though. Regular season wins don't matter, why show off then.

 

[Dave]

Did a harley win the championship last year?

 

[none]

Brent,

I appreciate your passion, I really do. But George is spinning it his way. I’m not calling him a liar but he isn’t telling the whole story either. If Harley won’t approve his design, that is a Harley issue, not an NHRA issue.

The same has happened in Pro Stock. At one point DART heads were legal to run. They were being run, and winning races and championships. They were “Accepted by the manufacturer” then someone at GM, no doubt with urging from the factory backed racers decided that you could only run a GM part # and all the Maskin/DART engines were outlawed overnight. That was NOT an NHRA decision, it was GM.

Mark, I understand what you’re saying as well, but if the starting point is a piece of billet, what would you want them to sell?
P.S. Loved the shirt! LOL

If V&H was so bent on world domination (at least in PSM) why would they still be selling engines that are capable of beating them? Why wouldn’t they just do as some have in the past, sell an engine that would qualify, but not one good enough to outrun mine.

And Mark, you know that happened for a number of years.

Alan

 

[Billy]

OK...but what's my post worth?

On a scale of 1 to 6 with 1 being perfect and 6 being hopeless, I'd have to give it a 1-minus.

 

[robslob]

Harley-Davidson VRSC - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I think this should bring enlightenment ....Isn't Pro Stock anything based on factory engine architecture ?

 

[Crash]

Brent,

I appreciate your passion, I really do. But George is spinning it his way. I’m not calling him a liar but he isn’t telling the whole story either. If Harley won’t approve his design, that is a Harley issue, not an NHRA issue.

The same has happened in Pro Stock. At one point DART heads were legal to run. They were being run, and winning races and championships. They were “Accepted by the manufacturer” then someone at GM, no doubt with urging from the factory backed racers decided that you could only run a GM part # and all the Maskin/DART engines were outlawed overnight. That was NOT an NHRA decision, it was GM.

Mark, I understand what you’re saying as well, but if the starting point is a piece of billet, what would you want them to sell?
P.S. Loved the shirt! LOL

If V&H was so bent on world domination (at least in PSM) why would they still be selling engines that are capable of beating them? Why wouldn’t they just do as some have in the past, sell an engine that would qualify, but not one good enough to outrun mine.

And Mark, you know that happened for a number of years.

Alan

Alan,
Is there or is there not a rule that only V&H can run these bikes?
If there is, that is moronic. If there is NOT, then this argument is....

 

[Johnny Mopar]

But the real question is, will anyone notice? I skipped over all of it with my DVR to see what happen in Pro Stock.

Agreed....I can't get in to PSM and neither can anyone at the track. Just look at the stands when the class is run.

It's a snooooooozer!