Top Fuel Dragster evolution. Morphing Top Fuel and F1 (7 Viewers)

[ironpony]

i've always thought a sustainable model would involve the team owners and nhra in business together and sharing
in the expense and reward, but i don't think there is enough money circulating on the professional level for that to happen,
hence the separation of the nhra and it's professional racers. i do like the idea of additional money being available at certain events
if certain sponsors want to enhance a particular event over and above the nhra/mission foods purse.
i like the idea of a two day event for the pros, if the pros felt that it was a good idea, if even once a year.
if FC and TF went 300mph at whatever e.t. that would be, the burnouts were longer, and they raced to 1320 again. i would love that.
if they even did one of those three things i would be happy.
that being said, i think if a fast doorslammer class started doing long smoky burnouts regularly, that class could become popular.
the traxxas girls picking up flipped over cars by rc guys jumping them was also a very good distraction during downtime.

Yes if you look back, which some do not like to do, Alan, the nitro classes have gone faster and faster, gotta exponetially more expensive and everything else on the midway has disappeared. Sponsors are gone too.

 

[Nitro Bass!]

OK so here is how I would run the new IPRA, (IronPony Racing Association)
As far as cars and combos change nothing at all, tracks stay the same too.
Budget Cap of 1 million per car, minus drivers salary, period. That would open it up to make it affordable for more teams.
You decide to blow it up too many times, you park it. The outcome is totally in the teams control. You need to skip a race to stay in budget that is on you. Maybe the team has to travel in motorhomes to reduce hotel costs and stay at the track. Possibly everyone goes to jeans and t shirts again.
I would venture to say it would be easy to find sponsors at that budget and the self funded teams might be able to justify the expenditure at that point as advertising.
Now I realize 1 million might not work but we could come up with a number that is reasonable not just unlimited keep throwing money at it. Be more like the old days when guys ran their own show out of their garage and sometimes had to make the tough decisions to stay home.
Also with the welfare system, countdown, you could realistically get in missing a couple of races. Other sports, racing series have done similar to try and control costs.
Flame away.

No flames here. If anything, you're reinforcing the point by throwing ideas out there.

Get 20 Top Fuel crew chiefs, owners, and drivers. Get 20 Funny Car crew chiefs, owners, and drivers. Get as many track owners as possible, put them in a room with NHRA, and don't let them leave until they've hashed out a path forward. If that takes days, so be it.

The goal should be to evolve the sport while never forgetting why we all fell in love with nitro drag racing during its glory years in the first place. Find that happy medium together so there's buy-in from as many people as possible.

To me, that doesn't sound unreasonable. You'll have every perspective in the room—liability, safety, tires, insurance, shutdown lengths, track infrastructure, costs, and everything else that comes with running this sport.

And it's impossible to ignore the fan experience. Without the fans, there's most likely no professional nitro drag racing. We as fans need to feel good about the next chapter, too. The best solutions are usually the ones that the people with the most at stake build together.

 

[none]

I love throwing ideas around, but when the meeting is over SOMEBODY has to make a decision.
I wonder if you guys know how many times Don Schumacher and Connie Kalitta disagreed?

I believe it was Lee Beard that said if you asked 20 crew chiefs the best way to slow the cars down you will get 20 answers, and every crew chief will suggest something that he/she already has a plan to overcome.

Alan

 

[none]

No flames here either. The budget idea is interesting, but
A: How would you enforce it?
B: What (If anything) would be deemed an exception?

Alan

 

[Litefoot]

Mark,

I didn't leave NHRA on bad terms, we simply couldn't agree on a new contract. And money wasn't the issue.

I'm disappointed that my shot as VP of IHRA didn't work out, as I did have some things I wanted to do differently. And I'm sure that some would have liked what I did and some would have told me I was an idiot.

I do enjoy a respectful discussion/debate I learn a lot from speaking with people who have different ideas or approaches to a problem. And believe it, many times I have thought someone was crazy only to watch that person show me they were right all along.

Alan

Alan, I felt it was their mistake to let you go, I was disappointed in AHRA also, was looking forward to some great things I felt you were going do there, I was told by Bill Carter that you never dismiss ideas or custom styles because that’s were the next great things come from, he called it food for thought, the way you were posting about this subject brought back those lessons he taught me, they have helped over the years, you have a blessed day

 

[mick]

what is indy car doing that nhra is not? they have a televised race series with ratings that i don't think are much
better than nhra's, maybe on par with nhra. they are heavy into B-2-B and hospitality, nhra is too.
i think each indy car team (multi-car) is independent of penske entertainment who runs the show.
indy is spec cars. nhra is pretty much the same. fox bought into the nnt indy car series, something nhra definitely does not have.

 

[Nitro Bass!]

I love throwing ideas around, but when the meeting is over SOMEBODY has to make a decision.
I wonder if you guys know how many times Don Schumacher and Connie Kalitta disagreed?

I believe it was Lee Beard that said if you asked 20 crew chiefs the best way to slow the cars down you will get 20 answers, and every crew chief will suggest something that he/she already has a plan to overcome.

Alan

I'm guessing it would be the sanctioning body's ultimate decision as they are the ones whose sandbox we all get to play in. I just hope that any sanctioning body will listen to everyone in that room and make the wisest decision. Being armed with knowledge is a very good thing. I would imagine PRO would play a big part as well, or am I missing something? I'm just a fan and am not up on a lot of current goings on behind the scenes.

 

[Nitro Bass!]

I started this thread wanting to see Top Fuel evolve into something even more bad ass with modern aerodynamics, essentially Top Fuel 3.0. To me, the rear-engine dragster was Top Fuel 2.0.

After reading the wise and experienced words of my friend Alan Reinhart about the reality of what Top Fuel is today, and the fact that they've already been slowing these cars down for years, it changed both the direction of this thread and my own thinking.

To me, that's a beautiful thing. We all learn something when we're willing to listen.

That's really been my point all along. The sanctioning body should gather as much knowledgeable input as possible from the people who live this sport every day and use that collective experience to make the best decisions possible. In many ways, this chat room mirrors that process. Different opinions, different experiences, and sometimes those discussions change minds.

Sorry for the thread drift, but reality is reality. That's why I called it a crossroads.

 

[ironpony]

No flames here either. The budget idea is interesting, but
A: How would you enforce it?
B: What (If anything) would be deemed an exception?

Alan

They have to document every expense and be ready to submit to an audit at a moments notice which based on the type of parts materials used and limited suppliers should be easy to verify.
Well, maybe a new rig, shop equipment clutch grinder NOT new clutch plates or such expense that would not directly influence car operation budget .
Testing time would be a budget item, wind tunnel if any, ........
Love to hear ideas and IMO this is a decision that would need to be made by the NHRA NOT a committee.
Also the budget might be higher than any small teams but low enough to restrict spending by a larger team which just keeps bringing out new bodies, chassis and engines.
OR
What might get their attention more if you need to change a block -xx points, a body -xx points, blower -xx points, so as to solve the issue of running bad parts as was discussed before if you limit the number of parts allowed. Sure you can change it BUT it will cost you xx points
OR
if you change XXX part after qualifying you get bumped down 2 spots which really isn't much of a deterrent as close as every body is running now and rarely more than 16 cars. EX: if you run Q4 and qualify you can only do normal maintenance before round one. You can not switch block, blower, chassis, body, rear end etc without incurring the penalty. EX 2: you run Q4 get in at #2, push the rods out, bang the blower, send the body into the stands, sure you can rebuild the car but now you will start at #16.
To me thinking out loud here I would implement all 3 over a 5 year period.

 

[Axman]

How about 1/8 mile nitro classes only. Run 2 qualifying laps on Friday, 1st round after the other racers qualify on Saturday meaning maybe a nighttime round 1, then finish up on Sunday.
Less runs, less money spent, still have 3 second, maybe high 2 second run, still have nitro and flames. More lower budget teams could run.

 

[Nitro Bass!]

How about 1/8 mile nitro classes only. Run 2 qualifying laps on Friday, 1st round after the other racers qualify on Saturday meaning maybe a nighttime round 1, then finish up on Sunday.
Less runs, less money spent, still have 3 second, maybe high 2 second run, still have nitro and flames. More lower budget teams could run.

It's not that I wouldn't go to an 1/8-mile nitro race, but it would sure feel anticlimactic. The move to 1,000 feet was challenging enough because the race is over so quickly. Making 1/8 mile the standard for the sport? I think that would be a tough sell for a lot of us.

That said, maybe the answer isn't one size fits all. NASCAR races on tracks of different lengths and configurations. IndyCar does the same. Maybe drag racing eventually has to adapt in a similar way, especially at facilities with shorter shutdown areas. But that would be a pretty significant change for the sport and a tough sell.

The funny thing is, when I watch an old 1,320-foot race now, it seems incredibly long. How messed up is that?