Top Fuel Dragster evolution. Morphing Top Fuel and F1

[Nitro Bass!]

Well they have evolved over time and that is why NHRA always does things to slow them back down. It all comes back to safety in all forms of motorsports. INDY cars were faster 15 years ago compared to today. Also stopped going to tracks like Vegas because they were just unsafe to race on. I would rather have the restrictions we have now than having evolution that eliminates racing at Pomona because the shutdown is too short.

I love the time you have put into the chat GPT nitro car. Pretty cool if that could exist. Is it worth it to run the same as what they currently do? Probably not because cost involved. Unfortunately we love a sport with niche fan base and sponsors not lining up to spend 30 million a year. We’re fortunate to have the sponsors we do and the people willing to spend what they do to have a 20 races across the country.

I’m sure at some point in the future we will be like Australia or Europe. They both only have a handful of cars in both nitro categories. Fortunately the fans still come out and support the

You just hit on it. I don't think IndyCar racing is any less exciting to watch today than it was when the cars were faster. The racing is close, exciting, and the driver skill is second to none. I don't think the fan experience has changed much either.

Of course, we all want to see cars go quicker and faster, but there is no way on God's green earth I'd want to be going over 340 mph if both parachutes failed at Pomona.

I'm not a racer, I'm just a fan. I'm happy to let the smart people in this sport figure it out, but they have to figure it out. If that means changing the A/Fuel or Top Alcohol classes, or making other significant changes, then do what you have to do to preserve the incredible nitro experience and keep growing the sport.

I like a lot of different kinds of racing, but as I have stated many times before and I know we all feel the sane which its why we are here, is that there is no other experience on planet earth like a blown nitro car. That's what separates Drag Racing from any other kind of racing.

 

[none]

There truly has to be a happy medium out there if they can't be allowed to go any faster and evolve. Less carnage, less cost, closer more consistent racing, less Safety Safari on the track cleaning up, and a better positive fan experience.....

Take the blowers off. Less Carnage, Less Cost, Closer Racing, Less Clean Ups.
4 seconds 300 mph.

Is that what you want?
Alan

 

[Chili]

You just hit on it. I don't think IndyCar racing is any less exciting to watch today than it was when the cars were faster. The racing is close, exciting, and the driver skill is second to none. I don't think the fan experience has changed much either.

Of course, we all want to see cars go quicker and faster, but there is no way on God's green earth I'd want to be going over 340 mph if both parachutes failed at Pomona.

I'm not a racer, I'm just a fan. I'm happy to let the smart people in this sport figure it out, but they have to figure it out. If that means changing the A/Fuel or Top Alcohol classes, or making other significant changes, then do what you have to do to preserve the incredible nitro experience and keep growing the sport.

I like a lot of different kinds of racing, but as I have stated many times before and I know we all feel the sane which its why we are here, is that there is no other experience on planet earth like a blown nitro car. That's what separates Drag Racing from any other kind of racing.

We all talk about how great nitro was in the 70’s-mid 80’s. The cars didn’t run in the 4’s or 300 MPH but what made it great? For me it was the long burnout, the dry hops and 25 cars for 16 spots. The competition wasn’t as great as it is today though. The nostalgia cars today run faster than they did in the 70’s but it isn’t nearly as exciting. The fans empty the stands like pro stock was up next. Why? The reason is the box has already been opened. Hard to get fans excited about 4.70’s in 1000’ when they just watched 3.70’s at 330 MPH.

I may be in the minority and love drag racing. If there was an alky race that was going to get 25+ cars in both classes I would be there in person to see it. Same with Pro Mods as long as they are going 1/4 mile.

 

[Nitro Bass!]

Take the blowers off. Less Carnage, Less Cost, Closer Racing, Less Clean Ups.
4 seconds 300 mph.

Is that what you want?
Alan

There has to be a happy medium.

Keep the blowers. Keep the sound. Keep everything that makes nitro racing one of the most incredible experiences in motorsports. The goal shouldn't be stripping away the identity of the class, it should be finding ways to make it more affordable, more repeatable, and more sustainable so the fields can grow.

I also think backing the cars down significantly would make them more consistent, produce closer racing, create a better show for the fans, and ultimately lead to bigger fields. Not many people in their right mind are asking for these cars to keep getting faster and faster, especially on tracks like Pomona.

Like I've said before, there are plenty of smarter people in the sport who can figure out the technical side of it. But simply taking the blowers off isn't the answer. That's essentially what A/Fuel Dragster already is. They're incredible cars in their own right, but I have a hard time believing a 16-car A/Fuel field would fill the grandstands the way a 16-car blown nitro show does.

The spectacle of blown nitro is what built this sport. The sound. The violence. The flames. The raw emotion. The dry hops and throttle whacks of the old days. That experience is what blew people's minds and made lifelong fans. People packed the grandstands to see it when the cars weren't even close to 300 mph.

That's the magic the sport needs to preserve.

Find a way to keep that experience alive while making the class healthier, more affordable, and more competitive. That feels like a much better long-term solution than removing the very thing that has always made nitro racing special.

 

[none]

You can't turn the clock back.
Is Top Fuel the only thing you want to turn back? Do you realize how far back you are going?

The first 5 second TF run was 1972, the first 4 was 1988.
That was 54 years ago and 38 years ago respectively. Do you really think that you can back technology up that far and entertain/impress today's fans?
When TF cars can now run sub 3 seconds the the 8th?

In 1989 the first TAD went in the 5's. It would stand to reason (in my mind) that left alone, TAD would have run in the 4's at least 15 years ago.

And now you want to return TF to what? 1992? (34 years ago) 1994 when Scott Kalitta went 308? (32 years ago) Also 1994 when Kenny Bernstein went 310? (also 32 years ago)

I think some of you have rose colored rear view mirrors. Not everything was better back than.

Maybe you could add an index, and make it 4.90 Super Comp.

Alan

 

[Nitro Bass!]

I totally get where you’re coming from, but I’m not the problem, and neither are fans. There is a sanctioning body that’s been slowing the cars down for years and years, the price to run a competitive car is out of reach for almost almost every human being on the planet, so where does that leave the sport? There are issues with safety with the tires at extreme speed, there are tracks that are too short to handle the speed, and the sanctioning body won’t let them go faster because it’s too dangerous. What are they supposed to do? What about the spectators? Are they coming to the races and supporting the sport? What is their experience like? As stated several times there has to be a happy medium. I’m not stating what that is because I don’t know, and apparently either does anyone else because we’re all still talking about this and nothing is changing. We have smaller fields, less competitors, at times less spectators, and fewer tracks. I don’t think I’m the problem, I don’t think people in Nitromater are the problem either, but something does need to be done to figure out how to survive this very challenging position that the sport is in. I get why we are here, but again, something should be done.

 

[Nitro Bass!]

Actually think of it this way, you have a sport that has outgrown the field that it plays on, and the cost of playing on that field is astronomical. What do you do next? That’s why it takes a lot of smart people with a lot of experience and drag racing to figure it out. Physics is physics, when you have cars that are accelerating to over 300 miles in an hour in 660 feet on tracks that were not designed for that kind of speed and are decades old, what is any sanctioning body supposed to do to keep evolving a sport that is totally designed for cars to go as fast as possible in a straight line. There is the conundrum

 

[none]

Brian,

I am a big believer that anyone can point out a problem. But I think if you're going to do that you should offer a possible solution.

Saying I wish we had 25 full time, fully sponsored touring TF cars is something everyone would like to see.
How does that happen?

As I pointed out, if the sweet spot is 4.80s at 300 something to the quarter mile, that can be done with A/Fuel cars. That would lower the cost, increase participation, and lesson clean up time. Everything you are asking for. But you don't want that.
So, what's the answer?

"Someone needs to do something" doesn't do anything to address the problem.

By your own admission, you haven't even decided if they need to be turned loose, or slowed down.

Also keep in mind that there's two things race fans HATE MORE THAN ANYTHING!!!!!!!!

They Hate the way thing are, and they Hate any kind of change.
How many times have your heard: "NHRA needs to do something!"
Followed by: "I can't believe NHRA did that!"

Alan

 

[Nitro Bass!]

Well said as always. The issue maybe is that the performance of the cars has exceeded the tracks they race on, on top of the monumental costs of competing. That is why I continually say smarter people with more experience in drag racing need to come together and find a path that works for everyone. Team owners, drivers, track owner, sponsors and spectators. That is an extremely tall order and I get how hard that is. I keep saying happy medium. There is nothing I like more than drag racing, and I want it to keep flourishing. Just have to figure out how to do it where everyone meets in the middle.

 

[Nitro Bass!]

And Alan you are right. Part of me wants to see major evolution and see them go quicker and faster and look amazing with real aero, then after all this conversation the reality is that NHRA has been slowing the cars down for many years. So what is the happy medium?

 

[none]

So let me ask, and please answer honestly.
If they are neutered to run 4.80s at 302-305 to the 1320, will you be happy?
After celebrating 302 at the eighth, and seeing 345 at 1000'?

Or would you rather see 12,000 HP (or maybe 13,000 or 14,000 if you listen to Langdon-LoL) to the 1000' and still see 300 at 660' and 340+ at the stripe?

Alan

 

[Nitro Bass!]

That is a very tough question my Old Pueblo friend. The racer part of me wants to see record runs every time they run of course, nothing like it. But sadly the realist in me gets that many of the tracks like Pomona that can’t safely handle the speed God forbid there is a real problem, plus the costs are out of control and shutting teams and entry lists down. I still get butterflies in the pit of my stomach when the first pair is lit. If I had to watch 4.80’s and 305 and hear and smell nitro, I would still be happy and still go to the races, but of course it would not be the same. We all had to deal with 1,000’ and I don’t think most of us like it, but it is still nitro drag racing at its finest. Would I rather it be 1,320? Absolutely. But do I accept 1,000’ because I have to? Yes. Again there is the conundrum and most likely one of the hardest choices and decisions in drag racing…

 

[none]

So answer the question.
It's the BHRA (Brian Hot Rod Association)
What do you do?

And understand that whatever you decide, many fans are going to light you up for making the "Wrong" choice.
Even if they don't have a better answer.......

Edit. For the record, my point isn't to put you on the spot, it's to get everyone to understand that there's no perfect solution. If there was it would have been done years ago.

Alan

 

[Nitro Bass!]

Another tough question. If it was the BHRA I would have meetings with many of the teams, the highly financed teams and the low budget teams. I would meet with the track owners and sponsors. I would meet with crew chiefs and parts manufactures. I would also meet with many hard core fans as well as casual fans. I would try and get as much information as possible with the most knowledgeable and passionate people in drag racing. I might even have all of them fill out a very detailed questionnaire. Then after getting all that information I would schedule a multi day gathering with as many of all those people as possible. The BHRA would want talk about what was learned and discuss all the suggestions and ideas that were presented, trying to find that happy medium. With how important this is for the future of the sport in today’s world the solutions might be much bigger than just a sanctioning body can handle on their own. As I always say these changes should be made by the most knowledgeable and experienced people in drag racing. This is a long winded answer to your question and I would imagine the NHRA has done many of the things I mentioned already. I just hope that whatever is done will be good for the sport, the team owners, track owners, and the fans.

 

[none]

You can find all of those opinions on the internet,

And at the end of the day, you have to make a decision. What is it?

Alan

 

[Litefoot]

So answer the question.
It's the BHRA (Brian Hot Rod Association)
What do you do?

And understand that whatever you decide, many fans are going to light you up for making the "Wrong" choice.
Even if they don't have a better answer.......

Edit. For the record, my point isn't to put you on the spot, it's to get everyone to understand that there's no perfect solution. If there was it would have been done years ago.

Alan

And you are very good at that, I felt that was were you were going to get good input on a almost impossible question, you are the man, NHRA messed up when they parted with ways with you

 

[none]

Mark,

I didn't leave NHRA on bad terms, we simply couldn't agree on a new contract. And money wasn't the issue.

I'm disappointed that my shot as VP of IHRA didn't work out, as I did have some things I wanted to do differently. And I'm sure that some would have liked what I did and some would have told me I was an idiot.

I do enjoy a respectful discussion/debate I learn a lot from speaking with people who have different ideas or approaches to a problem. And believe it, many times I have thought someone was crazy only to watch that person show me they were right all along.

Alan

 

[Nitro Bass!]

You can find all of those opinions on the internet,

And at the end of the day, you have to make a decision. What is it?

Alan

I know this probably sounds like a cop-out, but I've said it before: I'd get everyone in one room, the people spending the money to race at the highest level, the drivers who put their lives on the line every time they suit up, the crews who make it all happen, and the sanctioning body, and I wouldn't let anyone leave the room until a new path forward was agreed on.

No matter what happens, some people are going to be unhappy. There isn't a solution that's going to work for everyone. But it has to work for the people who have committed their lives and their money to professional drag racing. Without them, there is no drag racing.

They're the ones who still have to write the checks to race, and they still have the have the desire to race with the new changes, so they need to be at the center of whatever comes next, alongside the sanctioning body. That's the only way the sport moves forward, continues to grow, and attracts new fans, at least in my opinion as a fan.

How many other sports have competitors who have outgrown the field or court they compete on? I don't think anyone ever imagined these cars would be running over 300 mph in just 660 feet on tracks that were designed and built when those kinds of speeds weren't even remotely possible. That's the reality we're dealing with today.

 

[ironpony]

OK so here is how I would run the new IPRA, (IronPony Racing Association)
As far as cars and combos change nothing at all, tracks stay the same too.
Budget Cap of 1 million per car, minus drivers salary, period. That would open it up to make it affordable for more teams.
You decide to blow it up too many times, you park it. The outcome is totally in the teams control. You need to skip a race to stay in budget that is on you. Maybe the team has to travel in motorhomes to reduce hotel costs and stay at the track. Possibly everyone goes to jeans and t shirts again.
I would venture to say it would be easy to find sponsors at that budget and the self funded teams might be able to justify the expenditure at that point as advertising.
Now I realize 1 million might not work but we could come up with a number that is reasonable not just unlimited keep throwing money at it. Be more like the old days when guys ran their own show out of their garage and sometimes had to make the tough decisions to stay home.
Also with the welfare system, countdown, you could realistically get in missing a couple of races. Other sports, racing series have done similar to try and control costs.
Flame away.

 

[mick]

i've always thought a sustainable model would involve the team owners and nhra in business together and sharing
in the expense and reward, but i don't think there is enough money circulating on the professional level for that to happen,
hence the separation of the nhra and it's professional racers. i do like the idea of additional money being available at certain events
if certain sponsors want to enhance a particular event over and above the nhra/mission foods purse.
i like the idea of a two day event for the pros, if the pros felt that it was a good idea, if even once a year.
if FC and TF went 300mph at whatever e.t. that would be, the burnouts were longer, and they raced to 1320 again. i would love that.
if they even did one of those three things i would be happy. i also like the racing mph's and e.t.s that we have right now.
that being said, i think if a fast doorslammer class started doing long smoky burnouts regularly, that class could become popular.
the traxxas girls picking up flipped over cars by rc guys jumping them was also a very good distraction during downtime.