Top Fuel Dragster evolution. Morphing Top Fuel and F1 (5 Viewers)

[none]

Brian,
I agree in theory but, they don't want the cars to go faster.
You spend the money (which I belive would be substantial.) Let's say the cars pick up 10 MPH.
The response would likely be to move the rev-limiter (Timing retarder) back to around two seconds.
What would be accomplished?
And while some teams could afford the investment, most can't.
So if you make the Kalitta's stronger, but run the Palmer's out of business?
I don't see that as a win.

Strictly my opinion,
Alan

 

[Nitro Bass!]

Alan, I totally agree with you. The cars could go a lot faster today if NHRA allowed it. But that's really the heart of the issue: how do you evolve a sport when it doesn't want to evolve?

If it's for safety reasons like tires disintegrating during a run because the cars are approaching half the speed of sound, I completely understand and agree. If it's a money issue, I understand that too, although that's a little harder to swallow. In my mind, if evolution can happen safely, it should be allowed to happen.

I truly understand the conundrum NHRA, the team owners, and the insurance companies are facing. But maybe the sport needs to evolve in a different direction. Maybe it's smaller or even a single fuel pump. Maybe one magneto. Slow the cars down enough to tighten the competition, reduce costs, make it more affordable for smaller teams to compete, and maybe, even though I doubt it will ever happen, go back to the quarter mile.

I remember hanging out with you in Las Vegas after the race when Cruz was testing a single-magneto, slowed-down combination. If I remember correctly, he ran something like a 4.92 in the quarter mile at around 302–308 mph. I remember thinking, "There's the future." It seemed like a combination that could bring back quarter-mile racing while making the sport more affordable. But nothing ever came of it, and I've always wondered why.

Professional drag racing is at a crossroads for dozens of reasons. Some of those things we can change, and some we can't. But as a fan, and you know how big a fan I am, I believe something has to be done for the future of the sport. It has to work for both the team owners and the spectators. If it doesn't, the sport will continue to slowly fade away in today's non car oriented world.

As my friend Alan Reinhart always says, "Strictly my opinion."

 

[none]

So do you want to slow the cars down, or speed them up?

Alan

 

[Nitro Bass!]

So do you want to slow the cars down, or speed them up?

Alan

Yes!

 

[Nitro Bass!]

Yes!

As a fan, I want to see the cars go faster. But realistically, given today's challenges, maybe the sport needs to slow down. That's the heart of the problem: which direction do you go?

What is the vision for the future of drag racing? What is the sport trying to become? What is the long-term goal of modern drag racing, considering all the concerns we've discussed along with many others?

That's why I believe the sport is truly at a crossroads. Racers will always want to go faster, and fans will always want to witness new track and national records. But it seems we've reached a point where safety concerns and the financial realities of competing make that increasingly difficult. If that's the case, it's a shame, because chasing speed has always been at the very core of what drag racing is all about.

 

[ironpony]

Brian,
I agree in theory but, they don't want the cars to go faster.
You spend the money (which I belive would be substantial.) Let's say the cars pick up 10 MPH.
The response would likely be to move the rev-limiter (Timing retarder) back to around two seconds.
What would be accomplished?
And while some teams could afford the investment, most can't.
So if you make the Kalitta's stronger, but run the Palmer's out of business?
I don't see that as a win.

Strictly my opinion,
Alan

So, what if you could get the cars to go the same MPH, ET by making the car more efficient and eliminate the carnage as it would take less HP and reduce strain on all the other components possibly making the overall cost more affordable ???

 

[Nitro Bass!]

So, what if you could get the cars to go the same MPH, ET by making the car more efficient and eliminate the carnage as it would take less HP and reduce strain on all the other components possibly making the overall cost more affordable ???

That to me would be a great start as it is quite obvious that making them quicker and faster is out of the question now for the most part

 

[yoda]

Maybe a new Pro Unlimited class. Run What Ya Brung, and Hope Ya Brought Enough... No limiter, no budget caps, SFI LSR safety regs

 

[Nitro Bass!]

Maybe a new Pro Unlimited class. Run What Ya Brung, and Hope Ya Brought Enough... No limiter, no budget caps, SFI LSR safety regs

Sadly, I doubt that would ever be allowed even though it would be a blast to see....

 

[Nitro Bass!]

Brian,
I agree in theory but, they don't want the cars to go faster.
You spend the money (which I belive would be substantial.) Let's say the cars pick up 10 MPH.
The response would likely be to move the rev-limiter (Timing retarder) back to around two seconds.
What would be accomplished?
And while some teams could afford the investment, most can't.
So if you make the Kalitta's stronger, but run the Palmer's out of business?
I don't see that as a win.

Strictly my opinion,
Alan

As I've said before, I completely understand and agree with Alan. Safety has to come first. But if this is truly where we're at with tire limitations and other safety concerns, then maybe nitro drag racing at the highest level has reached its performance ceiling.

If the NHRA's only option is to keep slowing the cars down for safety reasons, then maybe it's time to rethink the direction of the class altogether. Instead of constantly trying to push the limits, perhaps the future is to intentionally take horsepower away, make the cars safer, improve competition, and reduce costs.

That would help level the playing field. The big-budget teams wouldn't have as much of an advantage, and more of the outcome would come down to the driver and the team's ability to tune the car rather than simply having the biggest budget.

Someone with more technical knowledge can correct me if I'm wrong, but if the overall power package were reduced with smaller fuel pumps, a smaller blower, or even a single magneto, could the nitromethane percentage be increased? I'm not talking about making more power. I'm talking about preserving what fans love most about nitro racing.

Anyone who's experienced cars running a high nitro percentage knows there's a noticeable difference in the sound and the overall sensory experience compared to 90%. If you could maintain that experience while reducing overall horsepower and stress on the engine and drivetrain, it seems like a win for everyone.

Go back to the quarter-mile, reduce the wear and tear on the equipment, and make the cars more stable and predictable instead of constantly operating on the ragged edge. Incorporate modern aerodynamic advancements to make the cars look even better while improving stability and efficiency. If they're still running in the 4-second zone and over 300 mph, I think most fans would be more than satisfied, especially if lower costs and less wear and tear meant more teams could afford to compete.

If nitro racing can no longer evolve by getting quicker and faster—which has always been one of the biggest attractions of the sport—then the focus should shift to what matters and is realistic in today's world: tighter competition, affordability, sustainability, and delivering the best possible fan experience that makes nitro drag racing the most amazing sensory experience on the planet.

Stagnation doesn't create growth, evolution does, and that is the great conundrum and contradiction with nitro drag racing in the 21st century.

 

[Chili]

As I've said before, I completely understand and agree with Alan. Safety has to come first. But if this is truly where we're at with tire limitations and other safety concerns, then maybe nitro drag racing at the highest level has reached its performance ceiling.

If the NHRA's only option is to keep slowing the cars down for safety reasons, then maybe it's time to rethink the direction of the class altogether. Instead of constantly trying to push the limits, perhaps the future is to intentionally take horsepower away, make the cars safer, improve competition, and reduce costs.

That would help level the playing field. The big-budget teams wouldn't have as much of an advantage, and more of the outcome would come down to the driver and the team's ability to tune the car rather than simply having the biggest budget.

Someone with more technical knowledge can correct me if I'm wrong, but if the overall power package were reduced with smaller fuel pumps, a smaller blower, or even a single magneto, could the nitromethane percentage be increased? I'm not talking about making more power. I'm talking about preserving what fans love most about nitro racing.

Anyone who's experienced cars running a high nitro percentage knows there's a noticeable difference in the sound and the overall sensory experience compared to 90%. If you could maintain that experience while reducing overall horsepower and stress on the engine and drivetrain, it seems like a win for everyone.

Go back to the quarter-mile, reduce the wear and tear on the equipment, and make the cars more stable and predictable instead of constantly operating on the ragged edge. Incorporate modern aerodynamic advancements to make the cars look even better while improving stability and efficiency. If they're still running in the 4-second zone and over 300 mph, I think most fans would be more than satisfied, especially if lower costs and less wear and tear meant more teams could afford to compete.

If nitro racing can no longer evolve by getting quicker and faster—which has always been one of the biggest attractions of the sport—then the focus should shift to what matters and is realistic in today's world: tighter competition, affordability, sustainability, and delivering the best possible fan experience that makes nitro drag racing the most amazing sensory experience on the planet.

Stagnation doesn't create growth, evolution does, and that is the great conundrum and contradiction with nitro drag racing in the 21st century.

This has been discussed many times before. 4.70’s at 300 MPH is a good run but doesn’t stand out much more than the alky cars when they are running 5 teens in the low 280’s. I’m not disagreeing that something doesn’t need to be done. But no matter what is done it will cost the racers money when parts are no longer legal and also testing a new combination. The smart crew chiefs will press the limits as they always do.

 

[TSK]

A return to 1/4 mile fuel racing is not going to happen.
I'm just glad they race to 1000 feet and not 660.

 

[Marchboom]

Reduce the intake valve size and this would force the crew chiefs to reduce blower overdrive and maybe overall blower size (which would reduce the amount of power needed to drive the blower) and reduce the amount of fuel the engine can take in. Keep the 2 mags to prevent the engines from dropping cylinders. If this doesn't do it then limit fuel pumps to one.

But I think the team that will be setting speed and E.T. records will be the ones who have "mastered" the clutch and fuel system. Getting them to work together is the key, IMO.

 

[Nitro Bass!]

This has been discussed many times before. 4.70’s at 300 MPH is a good run but doesn’t stand out much more than the alky cars when they are running 5 teens in the low 280’s. I’m not disagreeing that something doesn’t need to be done. But no matter what is done it will cost the racers money when parts are no longer legal and also testing a new combination. The smart crew chiefs will press the limits as they always do.

I get it, and I'm glad it's been discussed a million times. Those conversations lead to new ideas, and new ideas are a good thing, no matter where they come from.

Your point about the alcohol cars really shows how challenging the bigger picture is. You make a change to one class, and it can have unintended consequences for the balance of several others.

I love injected nitro. Being able to hear every cylinder fire is just badass. But if Top Fuel became meaningfully more affordable and efficient, how many A/Fuel teams would make the jump? Would we eventually end up with nitro only in Top Fuel and Funny Car? Would the alcohol classes lose nitro altogether to create a clearer distinction between them and the fuel classes? That would also upset a lot of people who have made major investments in their current combinations.

Whatever ends up happening, I genuinely understand the challenge for any sanctioning body. Finding the right path means balancing innovation, affordability, competition, and the investments racers have already made, and that's not an easy job.

 

[Litefoot]

As I've said before, I completely understand and agree with Alan. Safety has to come first. But if this is truly where we're at with tire limitations and other safety concerns, then maybe nitro drag racing at the highest level has reached its performance ceiling.

If the NHRA's only option is to keep slowing the cars down for safety reasons, then maybe it's time to rethink the direction of the class altogether. Instead of constantly trying to push the limits, perhaps the future is to intentionally take horsepower away, make the cars safer, improve competition, and reduce costs.

That would help level the playing field. The big-budget teams wouldn't have as much of an advantage, and more of the outcome would come down to the driver and the team's ability to tune the car rather than simply having the biggest budget.

Someone with more technical knowledge can correct me if I'm wrong, but if the overall power package were reduced with smaller fuel pumps, a smaller blower, or even a single magneto, could the nitromethane percentage be increased? I'm not talking about making more power. I'm talking about preserving what fans love most about nitro racing.

Anyone who's experienced cars running a high nitro percentage knows there's a noticeable difference in the sound and the overall sensory experience compared to 90%. If you could maintain that experience while reducing overall horsepower and stress on the engine and drivetrain, it seems like a win for everyone.

Go back to the quarter-mile, reduce the wear and tear on the equipment, and make the cars more stable and predictable instead of constantly operating on the ragged edge. Incorporate modern aerodynamic advancements to make the cars look even better while improving stability and efficiency. If they're still running in the 4-second zone and over 300 mph, I think most fans would be more than satisfied, especially if lower costs and less wear and tear meant more teams could afford to compete.

If nitro racing can no longer evolve by getting quicker and faster—which has always been one of the biggest attractions of the sport—then the focus should shift to what matters and is realistic in today's world: tighter competition, affordability, sustainability, and delivering the best possible fan experience that makes nitro drag racing the most amazing sensory experience on the planet.

Stagnation doesn't create growth, evolution does, and that is the great conundrum and contradiction with nitro drag racing in the 21st century.

Pull back the glue, can only use 9 to 10 thousand horsepower of parts designed to withstand 14 thousand, pure physics parts will last longer, crew chiefs will still find a way to tune them too 300 MPH

 

[none]

Be careful what you wish for.

You want 4.80 302 ish MPH TF? Just give Randy Meyer, Rich McPhillips. Tony Samsel, John Fink, etc 500 CI and clutch management and there's your new affordable TF. On the plus side, no one would ever lose because they broke the belt.....

Is that what you want?
Alan

 

[Nitro Bass!]

Be careful what you wish for.

You want 4.80 302 ish MPH TF? Just give Randy Meyer, Rich McPhillips. Tony Samsel, John Fink, etc 500 CI and clutch management and there's your new affordable TF. On the plus side, no one would ever lose because they broke the belt.....

Is that what you want?
Alan

There truly has to be a happy medium out there if they can't be allowed to go any faster and evolve. Less carnage, less cost, closer more consistent racing, less Safety Safari on the track cleaning up, and a better positive fan experience.....

 

[Nitro Bass!]

Be careful what you wish for.

You want 4.80 302 ish MPH TF? Just give Randy Meyer, Rich McPhillips. Tony Samsel, John Fink, etc 500 CI and clutch management and there's your new affordable TF. On the plus side, no one would ever lose because they broke the belt.....

Is that what you want?
Alan

From a racer's perspective, or from the standpoint of a hardcore racing fan who wants to see 3.50-second runs at over 350 mph, the answer is probably no.

From the casual fan's perspective, though, I imagine they'd love seeing more than 20 cars competing to qualify for a 16-car Top Fuel field at every event, especially if the cars race side by side, look modern and impressive, sound incredible, and run 4.80s at 302 mph in the quarter mile.

My point is that there isn't a quick fix. The sport has changed dramatically. It's become exponentially faster and far more expensive than anyone could have imagined back in the glory days. I honestly don't know if there's a solution, but I do know this: whatever the eventual fix is, a lot of us probably won't like it. That's just the reality of where the sport is today. How many tracks were built back in the day for nitro cars running 300 mph in 660'? None. It is a different world that needs a lot of input and ideas to find a good balance for the sport to thrive.

 

[Chili]

There truly has to be a happy medium out there if they can't be allowed to go any faster and evolve. Less carnage, less cost, closer more consistent racing, less Safety Safari on the track cleaning up, and a better positive fan experience.....

Well they have evolved over time and that is why NHRA always does things to slow them back down. It all comes back to safety in all forms of motorsports. INDY cars were faster 15 years ago compared to today. Also stopped going to tracks like Vegas because they were just unsafe to race on. I would rather have the restrictions we have now than having evolution that eliminates racing at Pomona because the shutdown is too short.

I love the time you have put into the chat GPT nitro car. Pretty cool if that could exist. Is it worth it to run the same as what they currently do? Probably not because cost involved. Unfortunately we love a sport with niche fan base and sponsors not lining up to spend 30 million a year. We’re fortunate to have the sponsors we do and the people willing to spend what they do to have a 20 races across the country.

I’m sure at some point in the future we will be like Australia or Europe. They both only have a handful of cars in both nitro categories. Fortunately the fans still come out and support the

 

[Litefoot]

Be careful what you wish for.

You want 4.80 302 ish MPH TF? Just give Randy Meyer, Rich McPhillips. Tony Samsel, John Fink, etc 500 CI and clutch management and there's your new affordable TF. On the plus side, no one would ever lose because they broke the belt.....

Is that what you want?
Alan

What I wish for Alan is some common sense discussions on how to stop the escalating cost of drag racing, that every new year more teams fall back $ wise and have to give up because of not being able to put a 100% new motor in every round, I would rather see the mega funded teams pulled back than see more teams have to quit because money is not there ( sponsors ) to keep up, not saying that’s the only answer, just trying to get everyone to look for a solution to keep our sport going for racers as well as fans