Great class but extremely limited opportunities to race them.
Top Dragster Class (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter jgrigz
- Start date
Potvin Supercharger Meets High Tech T-Bucket
I'm happy to repost this story from three years ago about Kerry Smith's unique T-Bucket because we recently introduced a fascinating interview with him on
www.tbucketplans.com
When I see the crank mounted blowers, it reminds me a lot of the old Potvin blower set up, from 1950's - 60's. Used a 6:71 roots blower run off the crank, and had tubes on it that ran from intake manifold to blower on one side & injectors on other side of blower. See above article for info & drawing of how set up worked. So, this has made me wonder if the Pro Charger is just a modern day version of a crank driven blower, or something else? That's why I'm curious about the various blowers. I suppose someone could use a 14:71 and do the same set up, but might be expensive. One thing I heard was how do you change the overdrive on the blower w/o a pulley? Maybe that is why guys stopped using them.
Nemo
Nitro Member
One of my favorite parts of running TD is the number of combos. We run a 1471 BBC, it’s a ton of fun and the power is very linear. Some of the hemi-screw cars are set up soft first half and really come on big MPH second half. Turbo cars are the same, lazy early and come hard second half. Nitrous cars seem to be fairly linear as well (good place for White to pipe in, he has a great combo), and there are a couple crazy diesel cars too. The procharger cars are popular because a SC guy can bolt it on without many changes and run really quick. Their boost is more bell-curved compared our roots blower and they run a pop-off valve similar to turbo cars so give them even more tuning options. I was on my way out of racing (super comp and bracket racing) when TD came along, it’s brought me back, I really enjoy it. The other TD guys are awesome, I love the aspect of qualifying (but the floor keeps the money from getting crazy) and making 220+ mph every pass and judging the finish line at the speed is a blast. Growing up watching the blown TAD cars is what keeps me on the roots blower, it’s what I’ve always wanted since I was a kid. Best part is we go to our local bracket track on a Friday night to test, pull some timing out and run 216 mph a couple times in a night and there is a group of kids hanging around taking pictures (just like I did as a kid). I know the street outlaw thing is big around here but you show up even at a race with those guys (not running a clock or on the 1/8th mile) and run 200+ and people take notice. Used to be big names came through our little track and match raced and wow the crowd, now most tracks don’t do that, just a bunch of bracket racing and the crowds like to see something loud and fast. We have even had the track advertise when they find out we are planning on testing and throw some fuel money at us (without us even asking).
Thanks Keith. I love watching T/D with a roots blower engine. Really does remind me of when Pro Comp got started in the 70's, altho the cars back then were barely in the 6's. A lot of T/D today would be competitive as T/AD right when they were on the verge of running in the 5's. As long as I'm "remembering", I do remember when T/F broke into the 5's at Ontario (was there). It amazes me today that a "mild tune" on a T/D has the capability of running 5.90's like the T/F cars did in 1972. I never seem to get to the point where I don't wanna go to the drags. Get just as excited to go as I did when I was 14. 
none
Nitro Member
Thanks Keith. I love watching T/D with a roots blower engine. Really does remind me of when Pro Comp got started in the 70's, altho the cars back then were barely in the 6's. A lot of T/D today would be competitive as T/AD right when they were on the verge of running in the 5's. As long as I'm "remembering", I do remember when T/F broke into the 5's at Ontario (was there). It amazes me today that a "mild tune" on a T/D has the capability of running 5.90's like the T/F cars did in 1972. I never seem to get to the point where I don't wanna go to the drags. Get just as excited to go as I did when I was 14.
Cliff,
A couple of major factors in comparing performance then and now. If you had TF horsepower from 1980 and today's tires and tracks you would NEVER smoke the tires. But back then, they did regularly. Yes the new technology as well as after market parts (Who could have imagined a 700" Big Block back then?) means making power is easier, but the limiting factor back then was traction more than power.
Fun discussion!
Alan
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Nemo
Nitro Member
It’s crazy, when I was a kid watching the “big boys” run a 200mph was flying and I enjoyed watching guys work so hard to do it. My dad and me ran in a mid America 7.90 association in the 80’s, going to salvage yards to find tall block BBC and thumbprint rods and so on to run the 7.90 and that was no easy task. Now with technology, a strong aftermarket, and CNC equipment we will go out to the local track and make three 220mph runs in a couple hours and drive to and from the lanes...it’s insane. Young guys will never realize how hard it was to be fast back then, it’s so common place now and really with a decent credit card limit anybody can do it (within reason). I still enjoy building our own engines and transmissions but the parts are so good it makes us look better than we are. My biggest accomplishment racing is not building a 220 mph motor but the engine swap I did in our 2002 ford f-53 chassis class A motorhome this off season that we use at the track....it’s the hardest thing I’ve ever done
Keith, now you will be ready for the new Pro Motorhome class..... heh heh The 7.90 classes were always fun to watch. We had blown dragsters, altereds and door cars. Denny Hills, who just won T/D at Fontana, was a 7.90 racer, rear engine dragster, BBC, 14:71 blower. I think a fair amount of S/E, as it was called, went to T/D or T/S. Korbell Wineries out of Calif had a wicked 1962 Chevy bubble top, w/ BBC and to see that car run 7.90's was wild! Full size body, pulled the wheels at the start. I have a lot of good memories seeing those cars run. We had strong Arizona cars in that class.
Alan, you're right about the tracks not having traction like today. I seem to remember that NHRA sprayed the track at Ontario with VHT, the whole quarter mile. and this might have been 1975, when Don Garlits ran that 5.63 - 250. The glue really changed the sport. Think of modern nostalgia AA/FD running 5.40's and over 270, with the same basic combo that Garlits had on that 5.63 run and they do it cuz of the glue (altho I think todays' engines make more power). Makes ya wonder, if Garlits could build a 2019 version of the 1975 car, using 6:71 blower, just how quick & fast would it go?
Alan, you're right about the tracks not having traction like today. I seem to remember that NHRA sprayed the track at Ontario with VHT, the whole quarter mile. and this might have been 1975, when Don Garlits ran that 5.63 - 250. The glue really changed the sport. Think of modern nostalgia AA/FD running 5.40's and over 270, with the same basic combo that Garlits had on that 5.63 run and they do it cuz of the glue (altho I think todays' engines make more power). Makes ya wonder, if Garlits could build a 2019 version of the 1975 car, using 6:71 blower, just how quick & fast would it go?
Sorry guys, I've been busy helping Jen get the youngest son married off, flying a little airplane, trying to switch our race program to Afuel, and working to pay for all of this. Making some progress on the racing part .... Hoping to sit down with Chase Copeland and his dad at their shop in a couple of weeks, and I think we have the license upgrade set for August .... slow process.
I think the allure of the pro charger is that is it is the best HP per $ deal out there, and once you get the converter sorted out they are pretty darn consistent. Maybe burn some exhaust pushrod ends, but not many other weaknesses. The less high end units don't like being pedaled a lot, but the newer better ones seem to be strong .... and you can drive them like a pickup to the staging lanes! Any Expiration of the pro charger is fairly expensive as it sends lots of sharp stuff through the motor.
I like nitrous because it is so consistent with weather changes, if I know the HP correction I can dial the car very easily. Stole a lot of Alan's wisdom at Nitro U to do a much better job of consistently getting the car hooked up (e.g. predictable and fairly consistent first 60ft, from there on it HP correction to the ET). Alky based power plants have to factor humidity and temperature into the HP correction factor changes WAY more than the folks who carry the stone dry, bone chilling cold, high oxygen atmosphere with them.
Looking forward to having an injected nitro combo scramble my brains for a few years before we retire to rock crawling, offshore fishing, and accountant turned full time machinist.
I think the allure of the pro charger is that is it is the best HP per $ deal out there, and once you get the converter sorted out they are pretty darn consistent. Maybe burn some exhaust pushrod ends, but not many other weaknesses. The less high end units don't like being pedaled a lot, but the newer better ones seem to be strong .... and you can drive them like a pickup to the staging lanes! Any Expiration of the pro charger is fairly expensive as it sends lots of sharp stuff through the motor.
I like nitrous because it is so consistent with weather changes, if I know the HP correction I can dial the car very easily. Stole a lot of Alan's wisdom at Nitro U to do a much better job of consistently getting the car hooked up (e.g. predictable and fairly consistent first 60ft, from there on it HP correction to the ET). Alky based power plants have to factor humidity and temperature into the HP correction factor changes WAY more than the folks who carry the stone dry, bone chilling cold, high oxygen atmosphere with them.
Looking forward to having an injected nitro combo scramble my brains for a few years before we retire to rock crawling, offshore fishing, and accountant turned full time machinist.
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Whoa! Great news that you guys will go nitro racing. Will you miss T/D? Boy that will be a big change, from nitrous to nitro, altho I suspect there are some similarities. Biggest thing I see will be going from 6.20's to 5.20's and MPH knocking on the door of 280. OK, Jen, you want speed? Heh Was thinking maybe you can recruit the new wife & your son into being crew. Well, you will be getting good advice from the Copelands. That is a good team. Let us know what the car looks like, CI and all that stuff. Wow, can't wait!
Thanks Cliff. I'm sure we'll generate some degree of entertainment for others during the process of learning this sport (much as we still do today). I've always enjoyed solving complex problems, so I don't expect the carryover "knowledge" to extend much beyond determination and a balance of associating with a small group of smart (and likely compensated) people and expanding my problem solving thought process. Jenifer is the least of my worries, she'd be in a pro mod car if I had enough money .... she says that her horses/rodeo riding growing up scared her way more than these cars ever could.
My guess is that we'll have to be happy with 5.4x and 265mph for a pretty good while.... I will keep my "mater family" informed .... even if it's just letting you know what caused us to scuttle the plans .... but right now that's not a near term expectation.
My guess is that we'll have to be happy with 5.4x and 265mph for a pretty good while.... I will keep my "mater family" informed .... even if it's just letting you know what caused us to scuttle the plans .... but right now that's not a near term expectation.
I went back to the beginning of this post. LOTS of interesting stuff! Is Jeff White still around? He had bought a A/FD car and they were gonna run T/AD. Am looking at Drag Race Central. If I was running T/D I'd make sure the car would run at least 6.60's. Class is getting intense. They have just run Rd 1 for T/D and T/S. One of the cars I follow is Kenny Upton in T/D. He used to run the old 7.90 class and they put on a good show. Saw him at Firebird & Speedworld. Ratz, he lost Rd 1. Next time Kenny..... I might put my $$$ on Kevin Kleinewber to win T/D. Ed Olpin looks good in T/S, but there are a lot of really good drivers that made it past Rd 1.
Wow those are great numbers! happy to hear that. No livestream from Vegas this weekend? I didn't see it available on nhra.tv
DG
Nitro Member
You can follow the action on www.DragRaceCentral.com
We cover near real time for all of the classes.
DG
Nitro Member
Damn...
I already run over my Verizon data occasionally!
We had really long days, except for Sunday. Finished right at 4:30 PM!
