The slower show!

[Frank]

Yeah Eugene, I saw the interview they had with him, either on All Access or on the telecast I don't remember. It was good to see him again.

 

[Z28LT1]

How do you guys think Bob Vandergriff's budget stacks up against the big dogs?

Has that been addressed?

Sorry. Carry on.

 

[Nunz]

How do you guys think Bob Vandergriff's budget stacks up against the big dogs?

Has that been addressed?

Sorry. Carry on.

It has. Bob’s car lacks for nothing when it comes to the line, but any part-time car is at a disadvantage simply due to having less runs to draw data from.

 

[vegasnitro]

Any dude that can afford to give a Breitling watch to the guys who drive his car and crew chief it to the win is not hurting for money.

I wonder if Leah got a Breitling watch when she got her first win driving for Vandergriff? I do remember he ignominiously shut the team down a few races later without warning, and the people on this board wanted his head on a platter. Funny how times change.

 

[SoCal Racer]

Alan, it's a balance of everything to get the result you are looking for. The chart below might help explain why a little bit better. Every inch of tire growth helps (a bunch) with speed at a given RPM. While any amount of wing counteracts that with drag and downforce (which compresses your tire diameter). Without giving away exactly what I do, last year in Las Vegas (2000ft), I added a little wing angle because the altitude is a bit higher and we still went 329MPH. This year in Joliet (600ft), I left that same amount in the wing because of the track prep changes and we only went 324. I'm sure there are other factors affecting that as well. The key is to realize that every change you make has consequences elsewhere and to try and get a handle on all of that. The only other thing I want to add to all that is there is one guy that really impresses me because he seems to understand ALL OF IT. That guy is David Grubnic!

View attachment 4676

Mike, I built a spreadsheet using the same metrics that I could extrapolate down for my shorter tires. The one thing that didn't jibe was your final MPH figures. They are consistently slow by very close to 2%. Is there a tire or clutch slip factor in there? Or is that a tuner's secret and you'll have to kill me if you tell me?

 

[none]

The clutch is locked up at that point. The tires are absolutely slipping. All the way down the track. Go back to post #44

Alan

 

[SoCal Racer]

Thanks Alan. I kind of suspected it was tire slip, which I presume is the cause of blacktracking.

 

[Cliff]

The clutch is locked up at that point. The tires are absolutely slipping. All the way down the track. Go back to post #44

Alan

Has there ever been a time in drag racing where the tires didn't slip? I heard somewhere that there has to be a certain amount of tire slippage to get the car down the track. Back in the daze when they smoked the tires off the line, the school of thought was what would happen if you could make a run without smoking the tires? Slipper clutches answered that. Then clutch management systems until present time. What is interesting to me is that cars still use clutches. No one has ever found a way to use another system that is better than a clutch. Maybe some day....

 

[none]

What would you propose Cliff? I know guys (in years past) have looked at fluid drives, but they would have to be HUGE to deal with the power level and then there's the issue of heat.

At this point nothing else would be legal, but it might make an interesting discussion.
Alan

 

[Cliff]

Hmmmm. Alan you're right about being an interesting discussion. I remember Clayton Harris had a fluid "clutch" & Garlits thought it was great. But nothing came out of it, don't remember why. Have also thought about Pro Mod running auto trans w/ tiny 8" converter. Seems to work as well as a clutch, since a lot of them run that set up. There is at least one TA/FC that is running that set up also. But... could something like that work with a nitro motor? There are a lot of really smart crew chiefs out there & I don't see anyone thinking about a converter set up. But if it would work with a nitro motor, what would it consist of? I dunno, what I know about this would fill a thimble, so...

 

[Mike]

Mike, I built a spreadsheet using the same metrics that I could extrapolate down for my shorter tires. The one thing that didn't jibe was your final MPH figures. They are consistently slow by very close to 2%. Is there a tire or clutch slip factor in there? Or is that a tuner's secret and you'll have to kill me if you tell me?

It's called bad math (on my part). When you type 5380 instead of 5280 for ft/mile, you get bad math.

 

[ironpony]

What would you propose Cliff? I know guys (in years past) have looked at fluid drives, but they would have to be HUGE to deal with the power level and then there's the issue of heat.

At this point nothing else would be legal, but it might make an interesting discussion.
Alan

Batteries and an electric motor, flame away.

 

[Nick Name]

A Torquemaster.

 

[Cliff]

A Torquemaster.

Wasn't Prudhomme's T/F car called that? I think it was a transmission designed by B&M. So....wild thought. What if you could design a "torquemaster" with multiple gear changes, similiar to a clutch management system? Would something like that work? Yeah, I know, I've had c-c-coffee.

 

[MidnightbluS10]

You think the casual fan gives a shit about 5 hundredths? I'm a hardcore fan and 90% of the time, I don't even care what the time was. I'm more interested in who won. Same goes for casual fans. I couldn't tell you one iota about how much they have slowed down because it's not a factor that plays into my love of drag racing.


You old hags just like to complain. If you dont like it, go knit sweaters. Jeez.

 

[Stan]

Talk about wanting to know happens to a tire under different loads.

https://www.f1-forecast.com/pdf/F1-Files/Honda/F1-SP2e_all.pdf

Development Methodologies for Formula One Aerodynamics - starts on page 142

I have attached a pdf where I extracted 3 pages. Who know how much money was spent doing these tests.

Stan

 

[ironpony]

as they say Indy cars are millions F1 cars are billions, true not sure but it is some huge money.

 

[Nunz]

$100-250Mil budgets not uncommon in F1. I believe Lewis Hamilton’s most recent driving contract was something like $150mil for 3 years. The numbers associated with F1 are unlike any other Motorsport, NASCAR included.

 

[Nick Name]

Wasn't Prudhomme's T/F car called that? I think it was a transmission designed by B&M. So....wild thought. What if you could design a "torquemaster" with multiple gear changes, similiar to a clutch management system? Would something like that work? Yeah, I know, I've had c-c-coffee.

I believe it was direct drive with a torque converter.