The slower show! (2 Viewers)

[Mike]

I saw that Ken, and this is your area of expertise not mine, but I'm not talking about the spill plates. My thinking is that with less traction I might add another half a degree or degree of wing in an attempt to keep the tire speed under control and I think that would offset or at least minimize the tire growth. In a Funny Car I would raise the tailgate just as they have done for years to combat summertime track temp.

Am I looking at it wrong? Not trying to argue, trying to learn.

Alan

Alan, it's a balance of everything to get the result you are looking for. The chart below might help explain why a little bit better. Every inch of tire growth helps (a bunch) with speed at a given RPM. While any amount of wing counteracts that with drag and downforce (which compresses your tire diameter). Without giving away exactly what I do, last year in Las Vegas (2000ft), I added a little wing angle because the altitude is a bit higher and we still went 329MPH. This year in Joliet (600ft), I left that same amount in the wing because of the track prep changes and we only went 324. I'm sure there are other factors affecting that as well. The key is to realize that every change you make has consequences elsewhere and to try and get a handle on all of that. The only other thing I want to add to all that is there is one guy that really impresses me because he seems to understand ALL OF IT. That guy is David Grubnic!

 

[Stan]

Remember that aerodynamic drag for a give mph, cd and frontal area is not a constant, but will vary based on different air densities.

Stan

 

[Mike]

Remember that aerodynamic drag for a give mph, cd and frontal area is not a constant, but will vary based on different air densities.

Stan

Denver v Gainesville
That's why so many cars broke in Denver last year. The CCs made good power at altitude, the track was great and the cars hooked but they didn't adjust wings on TFs and add weight to the FCs and many wheelstood (sp) and broke chassis because of it.

 

[ironpony]

I am sure you know that the slick, when deformed going down track creates uplift similar to an airplane wing because of the shape.
Also from what I have read, the drag created by the wing is more detrimental than the shorter tire radius, IIRC it takes 4x the hp to overcome the drag increase .
Coming down to 600ft altitude was like coming into pea soup so you squished the tire and greatly increased the drag. Although like you stated it is all a balance .

 

[ironpony]

Enjoy,


Figure 4 shows the applied forces and moments, as well as effective forces and moments acting on rear tires.
Figure 4. Forces and moments acting on rear tires.
The torque Teq is produced by the engine, and its

magnitude is
TT
T =TηN (4)eq e fd
where TTTe is the engine torque, η is the efficiency of the drive train and Nfd is the differential’s gear ratio. A summation of moments about point O yields
TηN−Fh−Na=Iα (5)e fd x rt rt rt dt rt
where Idt includes the inertia of the drive shaft and clutch, both referred to the tire’s side.

 

[Porkchop]

And who has won the races? In the end it’s still the money guys! So your point is mute!

REALLY??? Since when is Blake Alexander (Bob Vandergriff) big money??? Low buck teams have faired much better since the new track prep

 

[Jeff]

REALLY??? Since when is Blake Alexander (Bob Vandergriff) big money??? Low buck teams have faired much better since the new track prep

As the mix of guessing/luck/intuition rotates in favor of science and experimentation, the balance of power will shift. But i continue to maintain that if the NHRA/insurance companies/Goodyear want to slow the mph down, they are going to have to do so with a tire that doesn't grow as much as the current tire at a given RPM maximum.

 

[Porkchop]

As the mix of guessing/luck/intuition rotates in favor of science and experimentation, the balance of power will shift. But i continue to maintain that if the NHRA/insurance companies/Goodyear want to slow the mph down, they are going to have to do so with a tire that doesn't grow as much as the current tire at a given RPM maximum.

Has NOTHING to do with what was said. Lol forget it!

 

[ironpony]

HA, a really simple fix....................3.4 rear end ratio -20 MPH on the top end

 

[none]

REALLY??? Since when is Blake Alexander (Bob Vandergriff) big money??? Low buck teams have faired much better since the new track prep

Doubt there is a lack of money there on either side

 

[Jeff]

Has NOTHING to do with what was said. Lol forget it!

Actually, to a degree I agree with your statement. Non-mega teams have statistically DONE better post track condition change, but I don't think that trend will continue for very long. Further, I would not call Vandergriff's operation "low buck" .... he has a ton of money, he just spends it like this is less of his full time business and more of a "fun business." HPG doesn't seem to leverage off of BVR at all.

 

[Porkchop]

Doubt there is a lack of money there on either side

Bob doesn't have the money of Force, Shu, Kalitta

 

[Porkchop]

Actually, to a degree I agree with your statement. Non-mega teams have statistically DONE better post track condition change, but I don't think that trend will continue for very long. Further, I would not call Vandergriff's operation "low buck" .... he has a ton of money, he just spends it like this is less of his full time business and more of a "fun business." HPG doesn't seem to leverage off of BVR at all.

Bob doesn't have the money like some of the others

 

[Porkchop]

Doubt there is a lack of money there on either side

Bob doesn't have the $$ of Kalitta, Force, Shu

 

[ironpony]

Bob's got no money..............we get it

 

[none]

Maybe not the cash of those three but to run a TF car. Not a problem. That car has all the right parts and enough of them as well.

 

[TooTall999]

So I'm guessing Bob Vandergriff doesn't have the money of Schumacher, Force or Kalitta?

 

[stitcherbob]

Bob doesn't have the money of Force, Shu, Kalitta

Bob doesn't have the money like some of the others

Bob doesn't have the $$ of Kalitta, Force, Shu

Bob's got no money..............we get it

I knew someday you guys would understand me....

 

[Frank]

You got to see Joe Amato run 4.58/320 in 1999, a track record that was never broken. To this day one of the best runs ever, anywhere in my opinion.

Yep, I'll never forget that run. He was my favorite driver growing up, the original King of Thunder Mountain before Allen Johnson went on his remarkable run. With afternoon thunderstorms in the forecast for pretty much all three days, who knows, we could see another late night/rain delay gem this year!

 

[Huge]

Yep, I'll never forget that run. He was my favorite driver growing up, the original King of Thunder Mountain before Allen Johnson went on his remarkable run. With afternoon thunderstorms in the forecast for pretty much all three days, who knows, we could see another late night/rain delay gem this year!

I saw him walking around at the Virginia race.