The show vs. performance

[flapjack]

I've seen a lot of posts lately that lament the absence of "the show." I myself don't mind as I like to see performance. If I want to see throttle whacks or dry hops or long smoky burnouts, I go to nostalgia event.

I feel that it is inevitable that more and more of the show is going to go away. It happens all the time. Technology advances and the drive to outperform your fellow competitor leads to changes that people don't like. I never understood the longing for the old days, they're never going to come back. The best I have is fond memories.

 

[Nick Name]

As much as I love nitro racing, I believe it will be gone in the next decade, at least on the big show level. The show will wind up being like the events that the old ADRL put on.

The big show took a participant sport and turned it into spectator sport. The draw of nitro racing used to be that you could actually do it rather than pay to watch someone else do it.

The reason that the grudge scene is so huge now is because you can actually do it if you want to. Don't know long that will last.

 

[flapjack]

The big show took a participant sport and turned it into spectator sport. The draw of nitro racing used to be that you could actually do it rather than pay to watch someone else do it.

Jay, good point. I didn't consider the participant versus spectator aspect of it. Am I wrong in assuming that is what you really miss - the participation?

 

[PJ]

With the tightening of so many rules there is basically a a ceiling on performance now. Sure we can still see records but we all know there are really only a few tracks that are likely and even then there also needs to be perfect conditions. You really can't sell record setting performances when it's not likely to happen. Now that doesn't mean that performance at current levels can't be or is not exciting. What it does mean is that some of the "show" aspect needs to be brought in. We talk ROI for sponsors all the time, well the fan is the biggest sponsor and they surely need ROI on their ticket price.

The problem is that there is such a wide range of fans that attend or watch. Old schoolers just want race and engine talk, my wife likes learning the back stories and the human interest angle and falls asleep when it gets too techie, my kids like the crazy. Somehow, espn, nhra, ihra and whoever else needs to blend these, as well as many others, needs and taste into the show. Be it on TV or in person, it is a show wrapped around a race or a race wrapped around a "show" either way it needs to be blended. The Bader's in Norwalk do an excellent job at this.

 

[Just Paul]

With the tightening of so many rules there is basically a a ceiling on performance now. Sure we can still see records but we all know there are really only a few tracks that are likely and even then there also needs to be perfect conditions. You really can't sell record setting performances when it's not likely to happen.

How long did Don Garlits 5.63/ 250 Last? How long did Gary Beck's 5.39 last as the quickest run? How long did The Snake's 5.63 last as the quickest run?? When the Motorplex came out, they could only sell 1 track as being a record setter. I just don't see that arguement as being valid. I think with the rules package being frozen so to speak, it has brought the racing closer, which is a good thing.

 

[Butch]

You want show ?
When was the last time you saw a flopper. Do a half track burnout, then it wouldn't go into reverse. No problem just turn it around and drive back to the starting line crossing over and looping around the opponents car, Truck and tree. Pulling up to the line and stage.
It's things like this that if done today. The crowd would go nuts about .

Remember when Beadle did his performance at the Gators? When he got out he raised his arms. As HOW ABOUT THAT . Now how won that race, I don't remember but I do remember Raymond's performance.

 

[d'kid]

The show vs. performance ? It's not Heads or Tails... They are the two sides to the same silver dollar....
It's the People... Nelson and Pam, Mister Alley, Don and Pat Cook, The Beebe Brothers, G.L ... Had as much fun away from the track as at the track....

d'kid

 

[flapjack]

I do know one thing that is bothering me about all of this

The show vs. performance ? It's not Heads or Tails...

What I was after is this: you can have the show, with throttle whacks, long burnouts, dry hops, etc... but then the performance we have come to expect would suffer. So it is heads or tails in that regard. If you're OK with performance numbers going down in order to see a show, that's fine. But I am not OK with that. I want to see the big numbers and close racing. That's the show to me. For all of the other stuff, I go to nostalgia events.

 

[Nick Name]

Tom;

I wouldn't want to race now. To "mature" for that. However, some seem to want to have nitro racing as purely a race. A race you can only watch and not do. Not sure they are enough of those people out there to make it happen.

I was talking to a buddy from back in the day and I asked if he could remember going to a drag race as a spectator. When we did, it was so rare that you really have to think about it.

 

[flapjack]

I think with the rules package being frozen so to speak, it has brought the racing closer, which is a good thing.

But it has a cost. The R&D required for top teams to eek out whatever they can has grown so much that the little teams are squeezed out. I think the point Jay was trying to make is that at this pace, we'll have short fields, or no fields at all. Still, I like to see the big numbers. And you never know, another tuner might come along and show up the big teams with ingenuity. It's happened before, I am sure it will happen again.

 

[Dave]

Force did 1,000 foot burnouts well into the 90's, throttle whacks in the pits, and still set records and won 10 Winston Championships in a row.

 

[d'kid]

I do know one thing that is bothering me about all of this
What I was after is this: you can have the show, with throttle whacks, long burnouts, dry hops, etc... but then the performance we have come to expect would suffer. So it is heads or tails in that regard. If you're OK with performance numbers going down in order to see a show, that's fine. But I am not OK with that. I want to see the big numbers and close racing. That's the show to me. For all of the other stuff, I go to nostalgia events.

Tom, I do not Believe The Performance would suffer except with excessive clutch temp/wear... Strange how it's still getting Q & F ... We are just 180 out on this.... Fire the car, stage, & go? That will Hurt much more than help.

d'kid

 

[d'kid]

But it has a cost. The R&D required for top teams to eek out whatever they can has grown so much that the little teams are squeezed out. I think the point Jay was trying to make is that at this pace, we'll have short fields, or no fields at all. Still, I like to see the big numbers. And you never know, another tuner might come along and show up the big teams with ingenuity. It's happened before, I am sure it will happen again.

I heard this at the March Meet... in 1973

 

[stitcherbob]

the ultimate end of the show and the ultimate height of performance will be when electric dragsters take over........
no smell
no sound
no smoke
no tire spin at all
drivers will cease to be heros or atheletes
cars may end up driverless in the end (full scale R/C racing as humans won't be able to handle the G's)

 

[flapjack]

Tom, I do not Believe The Performance would suffer except with excessive clutch temp/wear... Strange how it's still getting Q & F ... We are just 180 out on this.... Fire the car, stage, & go? That will Hurt much more than help.

d'kid

Yeah, we're 180 on this, but I don't hate you for it.

 

[flapjack]

I heard this at the March Meet... in 1973

The fields have gotten smaller, though, haven't they? I can't help myself sometimes Karl, I have to get the last word in...

 

[flapjack]

Force did 1,000 foot burnouts well into the 90's, throttle whacks in the pits, and still set records and won 10 Winston Championships in a row.

That he did, but now he doesn't. Why?

 

[flapjack]

the ultimate end of the show and the ultimate height of performance will be when electric dragsters take over........
no smell
no sound
no smoke
no tire spin at all
drivers will cease to be heros or atheletes
cars may end up driverless in the end (full scale R/C racing as humans won't be able to handle the G's)

I have a doubt about electric dragsters being the height of performance, unless they can get over 8000 HP out of an electric motor without prohibitive weight of the car. We might see it, but it would take an awesome technological advance.

 

[PJ]

How long did Don Garlits 5.63/ 250 Last? How long did Gary Beck's 5.39 last as the quickest run? How long did The Snake's 5.63 last as the quickest run?? When the Motorplex came out, they could only sell 1 track as being a record setter. I just don't see that arguement as being valid. I think with the rules package being frozen so to speak, it has brought the racing closer, which is a good thing.

No doubt the racing is much closer now and that is good, just not record breaking.

The limits put on the cars, and in some cases rightfully so, have dampened the record chase

 

[JB3]

As much as I love nitro racing, I believe it will be gone in the next decade, at least on the big show level. The show will wind up being like the events that the old ADRL put on.

The big show took a participant sport and turned it into spectator sport. The draw of nitro racing used to be that you could actually do it rather than pay to watch someone else do it.

The reason that the grudge scene is so huge now is because you can actually do it if you want to. Don't know long that will last.

Not sure what you are really saying here Jay. You miss the old school "show", I get that.

Aren't most participant sports (your words) also spectator sports? Even Bass fishing is now a spectator sport. The cost of Professional drag racing has grown disproportionately. But even back in the day, did many enthusiasts think they could become a Professional Nitro racer? Could they afford it even then? In my opinion, the answer is no. It was/is a nice dream. They were spectators, that's OK.

Drag racing is no longer a participant sport?? If you are talking strictly TF, FC, PS, or PSM I agree the opportunity is remote at best. However, you can race at a Mello Yellow event or Lucas Oil Series event tomorrow if you can get licensed and have a car that fits the rules. Or you can just take your street car to your local track.

Is participation down? Sure. But you can't pin that directly on throttle whacks, long smoky burnouts, or showmanship. Said it here many times before ... NHRA, NASCAR, or any other motorsports organization cannot survive appealing to a shrinking demographic (I said it) that grew up through the nostalgia era as it is referred to. That group are the diehards, that's understood. However, there is a much larger group of fans out there and you have to appease them much differently. For the most part, they know little about the history of the sport or its legends. Quite frankly, most don't care. Like any fan, they want an opportunity to see the cars and stars they are familiar with.

Not knocking your opinion, just kind of respectfully questioning it. Everything changes with time, it has to.