The Future? (1 Viewer)

[Marchboom]

If Trump does what he says, the economy will get better because businesses will hire more people and invest more in their companies (machinery, materials, etc). Under the corrupt obama syndicate many companies didn't want to hire more people or invest in their companies because they just didn't know what the future looked like. Many employees were let go. Many were reduced to part time status. Many companies were forced to provide very expensive obamacare to employees. The syndicate was always coming up with regulations and laws (obamacare, EPA regs, etc) that hurt businesses. I think Trump will definitely rebuild America.

As far as getting more young people to the drags? Come on...how can anything be more exciting than their cell phone?

 

[cantdrive55]

Sprint is around 34 billion in debt. That might have something to do with them leaving NASCAR.

How Sprint ran their company, and what decisions they made to put themselves that far in debt is a secondary issue to NASCAR's perceived and actual value. NASCAR's original asking price for title rights sponsorship was $100 million annually, no one came close to biting that line. In the big picture it correlates to how Fortune 500 companies view motorsports as a means of marketing and promotion.

Wasn't there a once-prominent pro stock team that mentioned testing EFI on their dyno and found it actually made less HP than carbs? I think the NHRA was scared it was going to run off a lot of teams due to all the testing, costs etc. Of course, NHRA did a good job of that by letting costs in lots of other areas spiral into critical mass.

Imports? I can respect a properly tuned machine, but it's hard to attract a crowd when only 6 or so cars show up in a certain class. Plus, with the exception of GM's ecotec engines on seemingly every run those imports would blow something up causing delays. Also, it's hard to attract hot rodders to an event when the cars sound like giant weedwackers or sound like they're farting down the track. Besides, the audience that was there were probably only in it for the bikini contests. Oh, by the way.... can someone tell Import guys that the big slicks go in the back?

As for street outlaws, I have never watched a single episode mainly because, as a long time fan of DRAG RACING, it's against my principles to support a show that glorifies street racing.

We already know EFI is down compared to carbs HP wise; that's no secret. But considering they've only been using EFI for one calendar year and had carbs for what 45? It's really unfair to compare them. I have faith that with enough time and experience we'll see numbers equal carbs, and eventually surpass those numbers.

The import scene was never designed to attract American muscle fans. It was a place for those who grew up on VTEC Honda's, 2JZ Supra's, Nissan GT-R's, DSM's, Boxer Subaru's, and Mazda RX-3/RX-7's. They were the next generation of car people. But what happened was infighting between traditional American Muscle and Imports broke out. The mentality of the import people were "doing it wrong" started to prevail. Rebuttals of "fart cans", "weedwackers", and "ricers" created ridiculous animosity. There were countless aging gray hairs that didn't approve or even understand what was going on. All they knew was that Honda didn't look, or sound like a classic HEMI 'Cuda. Then they got mad when that VTEC Honda dusted off their classic Mopar. I know you understand this, but in racing parts break; it's an unfortunate part of the development process. Ask Warren or Kurt Johnson how many parts they've gone through. I'm willing to bet it's a lengthy list. How is it any different when an import snaps a halfshaft at the line from lets say a Mustang kicking a rod at 60 ft? Both result in a lengthy cleanup.

Street Outlaws is a good show, as long as the viewer understands that it's not entirely accurate to how the real world works.

 

[Randy]

If Trump does what he says, the economy will get better because businesses will hire more people and invest more in their companies (machinery, materials, etc). Under the corrupt obama syndicate many companies didn't want to hire more people or invest in their companies because they just didn't know what the future looked like. Many employees were let go. Many were reduced to part time status. Many companies were forced to provide very expensive obamacare to employees. The syndicate was always coming up with regulations and laws (obamacare, EPA regs, etc) that hurt businesses. I think Trump will definitely rebuild America.

As far as getting more young people to the drags? Come on...how can anything be more exciting than their cell phone?

I think this is true. Look how hard SEMA had to work to keep Obama's EPA at bay. If SEMA hadn't been around the EPA would have made it illegal to change a muffler clamp on your car.

Now that I'm old I can say this. This discussion has been going on for decades. Racing seems to go through cyclical periods. Hot one year, cold the next. But the misconception here is that many think the health of drag racing is entirely based on "How many cars or how many people are coming to the national events?" There are only 24 national events. And those are geared toward the few who chose to run them and/or chase points, or the few that chose to go watch. It costs a fortune to attend them because the local hotels and everyone else bends the racers and fans over when racing is in town. I think NASCAR is feeling it worse than NHRA. There are tracks that are actually bulldozing grand stands because the optics of a complete section of empty grandstands covered by football field size tarps looks bad. It's happening at Daytona, Richmond and Dover. They are calling it "Right-Sizing" of facilities.

Just remember this. Every weekend there are races all across the country. There are more niche organizations now more than ever. I can build a 6 second altered and find a 6 second altered group to run with. I can build a nitro funny car and find a group of nitro funny cars to race with. Look how crowded Bakersfield is when they run. I can race a pro mod car on the west coast and find a pro mod association to run with. But these groups don't get the coverage the big show does. Unless you follow them you don't even know they exist. And no track is going to survive on one national event per year. They rely on the weekly racers and niche organizations like these to keep the gates open.

Back when I was bracket racing at OCIR and Irwindale we, as racers, were not race fans so we avoided national events. We would race the weekend before and the weekend after, and we might show up for one qualifying day at the big show but that was it. We weren't that interested in the crowds and standing around watching because we were more interested in our own stuff.

Bottom line is, even if the big show folded drag racing would still survive and the companies that provide products and services would still survive. Few manufacturers rely on 17 TF cars and 19 funny cars to stay in business. It's the thousands of independent racers that buy parts through places like Jegs and Summit that keeps them alive.

 

[SundayNiagara]

Well it can't be much worse for the working class, which is why traditional blue states went red. Putting America first and making our business environment competitive vs. other countries will only do good things for jobs and our economy which you should see a trickle down impact to drag racing with more discretionary income.

Trickle down? LMFAO!

 

[Muddy]

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Bottom line is, even if the big show folded drag racing would still survive and the companies that provide products and services would still survive. Few manufacturers rely on 17 TF cars and 19 funny cars to stay in business. It's the thousands of independent racers that buy parts through places like Jegs and Summit that keeps them alive.

Very very true

 

[sammi]

Trump, Putin, Hillary or Bernie can't fix the one indisputable problem facing NHRA drag racing-the median age of its members and fans. What was amazing and captivating to us in the 60's and 70's doesn't get in done in 2017. That phony baloney street racing show does illustrate an interesting societal truth. The young thrive on pissing off the old. Speaking of young, care to guess what most teens are really excited about? Jeeps.

Maybe DSR or JFR will be putting Lyrica or Invokana on Courtney's car one day soon.

 

[Justin@NRE]

Wasn't there a once-prominent pro stock team that mentioned testing EFI on their dyno and found it actually made less HP than carbs? I think the NHRA was scared it was going to run off a lot of teams due to all the testing, costs etc. Of course, NHRA did a good job of that by letting costs in lots of other areas spiral into critical mass.

The teams were the ones putting up the resistance to NHRA as far as changes. And the racers are more guilty than NHRA for letting costs escalate because they were willing to pay for it!! They are down on power since the switch, yes, but think about what they've done. Totally changed the front side of their air induction as well, on top of running on a rev limiter that several teams would have blown right by the year before. But when you have 4+ decades worth of Carb R&D to fall back on and 3+ decades worth of "That didn't work" moments with fairly unrestricted 500" engine builds, it is going to be an uphill battle when you change something. Not to mention, the previously dominant team changed manufacturers and they fell WAY behind, which made this new era look that much worse for it's first full season.

 

[mgty3whlr]

It's true about the H.P. down but you are comparing a motor turning close to 12,000 rpm w/carb and a 10,500 motor with F.I. Sure the h.p. is gonna be down being that you twist a motor that high, more air/fuel more revolutions means more h/p. That was a Huge tree stump thrown at the P/S builders when NHRA said 10,500 is the limit.

 

[sdwarf36]

Its gonna be a tough sell to the kids-even the ones into cars aren't into drag racing. How impressive is your 12 second Mustang--when they have a 12 second Subaru. That has brakes--and can take corners. The big thing is now road course track days. $300 or so can get you HOURS of track time. Even here in NIMBY land, we have 6 new tracks in the last 5 years.(2 are private "country club" tracks you become a member of.) Can you tell me anywhere there are 6 new drag strips in a 5 hour radius? And they are all booked solid. You can do 120 in the 1/4-slow down in a straight line- idle back- wait an hour + do it again. Or go run a 10 lap session and do 120 down the straightaway-slam on the brakes make a turn-and keep going fast. Wait an hour + do another 10 lap session.

 

[HEMI6point1]

The import scene was never designed to attract American muscle fans. It was a place for those who grew up on VTEC Honda's, 2JZ Supra's, Nissan GT-R's, DSM's, Boxer Subaru's, and Mazda RX-3/RX-7's. They were the next generation of car people. But what happened was infighting between traditional American Muscle and Imports broke out. The mentality of the import people were "doing it wrong" started to prevail. Rebuttals of "fart cans", "weedwackers", and "ricers" created ridiculous animosity. There were countless aging gray hairs that didn't approve or even understand what was going on. All they knew was that Honda didn't look, or sound like a classic HEMI 'Cuda. Then they got mad when that VTEC Honda dusted off their classic Mopar. I know you understand this, but in racing parts break; it's an unfortunate part of the development process. Ask Warren or Kurt Johnson how many parts they've gone through. I'm willing to bet it's a lengthy list. How is it any different when an import snaps a halfshaft at the line from lets say a Mustang kicking a rod at 60 ft? Both result in a lengthy cleanup.

Street Outlaws is a good show, as long as the viewer understands that it's not entirely accurate to how the real world works.

Look, I don't hate imports. I can respect someone who can properly tune and modify a small displacement engine to get big HP. But perception is everything, and what gave imports a bad name was the people lumping the legit tuners in with the fast and furious crowd, you know, the backwards cap wearing, rap blasting punks who think that they have a hot rod by putting a big muffler (aka fart can) and stickers on a stock Civic DX. Those people are more commonly referred to as "ricers." To be honest, the legit import tuners despise them more than American muscle car fans because of the perception problem they give to their work.

As for Street Outlaws, are you sure it's a good idea to trust members of John Q. Public to understand that it's "just a TV show?"

 

[RM FAN]

Wasn't there a once-prominent pro stock team that mentioned testing EFI on their dyno and found it actually made less HP than carbs? I think the NHRA was scared it was going to run off a lot of teams due to all the testing, costs etc. Of course,

I'm not sure who the "prominent" ps team was but I bet they knew along with every ps engine builder that it was not going to make more HP before putting on the dyno. Why does that even matter?

 

[James]

I can remember the late 70s, early 80s, probably half of the national meets were only 8 car fields. Sometimes you only had 10-11 cars trying to qualify, yet the fans still packed in.

Can you name those events? My memory recalls Cajun Nats and Sanair being 8 car fields but can't recall others.

 

[Chili]

Denver had 8 car fields at one time as well I believe.

 

[cantdrive55]

Look, I don't hate imports. I can respect someone who can properly tune and modify a small displacement engine to get big HP. But perception is everything, and what gave imports a bad name was the people lumping the legit tuners in with the fast and furious crowd, you know, the backwards cap wearing, rap blasting punks who think that they have a hot rod by putting a big muffler (aka fart can) and stickers on a stock Civic DX. Those people are more commonly referred to as "ricers." To be honest, the legit import tuners despise them more than American muscle car fans because of the perception problem they give to their work.

As for Street Outlaws, are you sure it's a good idea to trust members of John Q. Public to understand that it's "just a TV show?"

I'm not trying to imply you hate imports. I was using your use of terms like fart cans and weedwackers to address a deep divide that didn't need to take place. But you do bring up a point of separating tuners from posers, and to be honest that argument can be made and applied to all forms of car culture. The problem is you can't just look at someone and apply that logic to them because of a backwards baseball cap, or their choice in music. I've seen plenty of American muscle with a cat back exhaust and Flowmaster decal that thought they had some bad ass ride, only to get their wallet emptied by a downplayed VW. I'm not saying your example doesn't exist. I've seen my fair share of stock Civic's with decals and exhaust that couldn't out run a stock V6 F-body. As for trusting the general public to understand a TV show doesn't exactly reflect real consequences; I make no assertions they can accurately do such a thing.

 

[Randy]

Can you name those events? My memory recalls Cajun Nats and Sanair being 8 car fields but can't recall others.

I can remember some shows (maybe not national events) where BB/FC's were entering AA/FC shows because the fields were short. Ken Veney and Dale Armstrong did it. I can find out from Ken.

 

[Dave]

Baton Rouge, Sanair, Denver, and Brainerd had 8 car shows. I think even Columbus at a time did too. In fact the 1984 Brainerd race had 7 Top Fuel cars. Not even enough to fill the 8 car field.

 

[JHOLE]

I can remember some shows (maybe not national events) where BB/FC's were entering AA/FC shows because the fields were short. Ken Veney and Dale Armstrong did it. I can find out from Ken.

Yeah, it happenned, we did it too. Not so much because of short fields though, it was purely driven by the payout structure... First round in FC paid as well as winning BB. If you went two rounds, you doubled up... And if there was an event on the way home from a circuit meet , or Nat. Event, We'd swing over to it and jump in...

 

[RacerRose]

Baton Rouge, Sanair, Denver, and Brainerd had 8 car shows. I think even Columbus at a time did too. In fact the 1984 Brainerd race had 7 Top Fuel cars. Not even enough to fill the 8 car field.

So did the 1st Keystones at Maple Grove in 1985. Top Fuel was an 8 car field, with I think 14 entries.

 

[J5races]

Wasn't there a once-prominent pro stock team that mentioned testing EFI on their dyno and found it actually made less HP than carbs? I think the NHRA was scared it was going to run off a lot of teams due to all the testing, costs etc. Of course,

I'm not sure who the "prominent" ps team was but I bet they knew along with every ps engine builder that it was not going to make more HP before putting on the dyno. Why does that even matter?

It was Warren Johnson back years ago

 

[Nick Name]

I feel that yuou can not compare the health of drag racing on the NHRA big show. Other nitch areas are drawing racers and fans. All bike events with 800+ entries and most under 40 years old. You can attempt to ignore the Street Outlaws crowd, but that is the futere. People are bringing those events on to race tracks with much success. NHRA with it's strangle hold on the tracks will attempt to resist.

Not sure if the big show will survive, but "first to the finishline" racing will remain healthy and prosper.