something(s) has to be done! And Fast! (1 Viewer)

[Rexfiles]

Maybe it's just me, but it does seem the wick is shorter.

And one other minor thing.

An innocent, hapless spectator got killed this year.

That made EVERY national news show.

and we have lost a couple great drivers.

I think, something else comes off of one of these, or grenades big time, and offs another, or several, spectators, the axe will fall.

Too much devastation to ignore, IMHO.

REX

 

[Kenny B.]

Thats true but Chrisman is running soft on purpose he is deliberatly not running hard so he can save money and parts. If he pushed it like the others he would probably hurt stuff to.

I don't like the idea of slowing them down but if it saves nitro racing then huh thats a good thing. But hey I just have one thing to say in that respect

Steve Plueger for president. I have listened to enough interviews with that man to get the idea that he knows what he is talking about.

Seems this stuff comes up every year! Anytime we have a Boomer, or a race is short cars all Hell breaks loose! Don't you guys think the economy might have something to do with this??

William, You are very true about Chrisman. My mistake. As for Mr. Plueger, I can't disagree one bit. It’s funny who runs the sport now a days while those with a solid input have been placed to the side. Then again, I can remember working at Dave Uyehara's and constantly hear the bench racing followed by the famous phrase of "...but who wants to get involved with that sh*t"
Its politics everywhere...no matter what your opinion may be someone else thinks differently.

Joe, No doubt the economy is playing a factor on moods and emotions. There are four things that always come as a given with drag race. Risking your life to drive one, Parts breakage, Beer drinking and Spending $$$. When the rough gets rougher emotions begin to show. It’s tough times. The people who are still lucky enough to do it have seen their friends fall victim to the times. They are really feeling the pressure of the economic state. EVEN JOHN FORCE! I know it’s hard to believe but it’s true. The Ford deal will certainly help him....

I'm not a big fan of making the sport slower, the point of racing is a competition of time and speed, but I never have any problem with two things; making the category more accessible to other competitors (creating more competition) and making the sport safer. We have made leaps and bounds in safety throughout the times, and though explosions are spectacular and a part of the sport there is a point when safety becomes a concern. If slowing the cars makes the class a little more affordable and we can get an increase in competitors then even Better!!!

 

[Dave]

I agree, but the pace we are on, we are looking at 660' racing with 2.94 ET's @ 310 MPH. 7 more years, 1.74 ET's @ 295 MPH in 330'.......Boy this sounds like fun to watch. All of a sudden we are at the "Sand Drags" (no offense) and racing to 100 yds. What most fans want is something that lasts for 4.5 to 5 seconds, side by side, 1320', that allow for some real driving and has speeds that go over 300 MPH once in a while, and is extremely loud and has some cackle to it. The problem is we have very smart people doing this (crew chiefs and owners) that want the ultimate ET and will do anything at any cost to accomplish it, and fans who just want good, close, loud, smokey burnouts, and 1/4 mile racing that doesn't take all day to finish. News flash for the car owners and drivers - - - ITS NOT ABOUT THE ET's - - - - We have lots of work to do.........................

Not to disagree with your theory, but the first ever sub 3.00 second run to the 1/8th mile was Gary Scelzi on October 31st, 1999. He ran 2.99 to the 1/8th on his 4.48 run at Houston. Not only was it the first, but it has not been repeated since. You see plenty of 3.0's but never another 2.9x. That was 11 years ago and counting. Are these guys stupid or what?

Edit: Here are the Drag Race Central notes on that run:
Qua-Driver(Opp'nt)-RT-----ET---Speed-Rd-Qua-Driver(Opp'nt)-RT-----ET---Speed
4 Gary Scelzi 4.592 320.58 Q 8 Tony Schumacher 4.605 323.27
(J Head ) 0.522 4.514 319.37 E1 (R Parks ) 0.510 4.569 323.04
(T Gibson ) 0.567 4.554 320.51 E2 (D Herbert ) 0.485 4.585 325.30
*****WINNER***** 0.500 4.480 312.21 E3 0.513 11.351 77.26

This was a big matchup, the current Winston champion against the apparently soon-to-be-crowned Winston champion. A win here would slam the door hard for Schumacher, closing out even the slim mathematical chances Joe Amato and Gary Scelzi hold. But the title will have to be decided in Pomona, Schumacher up in smoke and Scelzi streaking away to reset the national ET record on a stunning pass, the quickest run in history. Needless to say, Scelzi has lane choice against Dixon in the finals. "Big Red" was clocked at 2.991 seconds and 274.05 mph at half track, also awesome numbers. That gives the title race a new wrinkle since Scelzi just gained 40 points on Schumacher and is now just 109 points behind. He can close that to 89 points if he wins this event. Slim, but it's still possible for Scelzi to repeat.

 

[FuelFC]

Yes economy has some to do with it. But that is not all the answer.

You can light a 10 second car on fire. Give me the car, a monkey to steer it, and I show you how. We did it at will and even sometimes completely by accident. Oops. (See decade of thrills and they walked away 1-4) Covers shots! LOL.

Turn the clock back 15-20 years and look at how many cars were there to available to run. Simple answer a lot. You had 35-40 good running funny cars and T/F cars that could and did run national events more on a regional level.

Out of pocket for a few events or more. No big sponsorships and you could be competitive. Worked on a car that used $250K and finished #2 and #3 compared to #1 budget of 10 times that. Ask Peanut what thier budget was for 1994. Or Del for 1994. Damn cars would run too.

Leave the set up as is, limit one or two or three of the needed. Air, fuel, and spark. Simple as a mag pull, pullies, and/or pump. Could even go the restrictor plate on air inlet. Simple and easy to police.

Get rid of some of the areo deal and stupid looking rear luggage racks. Get the bodies back to better looks, slow em down some and save a ton of dough.

Simple fact here folks speed costs money.

As far as the well they'll just go faster...yes they will and then you slow em down again...over and over...
Just limit the pulley or get a new restrictor.

It really is not that damn hard. You can have the full can %, 1/4 miles at 300 +or- and do whatever you want as long is it fits the rules. A caveman could do it! Others?...well...

 

[Mooseman]

Would a restrictor plate work on a blown engine that has a presurised intake rather then a normally aspirated engine which will only suck in what it can physically suck in by the vacuum each cylinder creates.

 

[FuelFC]

Would a restrictor plate work on a blown engine that has a presurised intake rather then a normally aspirated engine which will only suck in what it can physically suck in by the vacuum each cylinder creates.

Can only push or draw so much volume through a certain size opening...

 

[Nitrohelper]

Air, fuel, and spark. Simple as a mag pull, pullies, and/or pump. Could even go the restrictor plate on air inlet.
Simple and easy to police.....Just limit the pulley

With any rule remember tech , keep it simple and quick ...
no flowing of pumps ,no flowing restrictor plates or measuring thousands of an inch during the race...
no counting pistons or requiring tech guys in each pit between rounds...
Limit the spark plugs and air volume, let the tuners determine the pump volume for different tune-ups...
... the pulleys are easily adjusted for top speed, and can be checked in the staging lanes...
Tear down the winner and/or a top speed after each race if you want to measure stuff...
Don't add new parts ,just reduce what's already there......

 

[handsome]

i have mentioned a restrictor plate before. you have Dan Olson running the tech for fuel cars already. why not get him to have his business stamp out a bunch of plates and even leave a tab on the side that sticks out from under the blower for a serial number that can easily be looked at in the staging lanes. all plates can be given out at the event tech and returned to nhra after the race. the teams usually have the blower on and off the car before and after each run so thats an easy piece to put on. then put an overdrive restriction to maximize the restrictor plate.

 

[Professor Dave]

Let's see, didn't the Snake say right after they went t0 1000' that it would only be a matter of time before cars would be blowing up and that NHRA needed to do something to slow the cars down and control costs?

I wonder what happened to Snake? Maybe if NHRA had taken him really seriously, he'd still be racing.

 

[Wes]

All of this goes back to NHRA trying to get a piece of the NASCAR pie back in the 80's. MORE races. MORE tracks. MORE television. MORE corporate sponsors. MORE suites. We had to jump from less than 16 races a year to 24 (25 if you count the 50th year). All of the things that "elevated" the sport to the "next plateau" have come back to turn this into a business and nothing more.

As the number of events increased and as the television coverage became more expensive to purchase, the ticket prices went up. At the same time, economies of scale gave birth to the large team dynasties we are faced with today. Think back if you will to when the television coverage was two weeks delayed at best and we only had 16 national event, tops. You had regional nitro teams that could show up and kick some "touring" teams' butts. The stands were beyond capacity at those events. Race cars still had names. Drivers had real personalities and they even worked on their rides.

Not only do we need to take a huge step back in technology, drag racing needs to take a long look in the mirror and venture back into the live event/entertainment business rather than the creative accounting and finance industry. I've said this before and I dare say it again. Drag racing is not a television sport and does not need the boob tube in order to prosper. Fewer events...say 18 per season max. Realistic and reasonable ticket prices...and food prices. Hint, hint...the ADRL formula anyone?

On the technical side, yes, the nitro package needs a makeover. Impactful reductions in fuel volume, ignition power, air/fuel delivery compression (blowers), and downforce would indeed reduce long term operating costs and provide the performance numbers. The hardware available today would enable a 4000-4500 horsepower nitro engine to last much, much longer. No more block splitting volcanoes of mechanical disagreement. 4.70/305 Top Fuelers and 4.90/300 Funny Cars would satisfy me just fine, thank you. Funny Car (and Pro Stock) body designs that resemble their consumer counterparts and lack the pick-up bed sitting on the deck lid. Less rear wing surface area or a lower height on the pipe racks. Lighter cars would indeed be better...less loading on the engine (nitro loves load, folks) and much easier to stop! Traction control=YES. Dry hops=YES. Fire burnouts=YES. Okay...maybe I got carried away with that last one.

In order to placate those damn sponsors, instead of having a 3-hour replay-a-thon on the same day of the events, develop a 1-hour weekly show on a network that is not of ESPN affiliation. Use this show to cover the events, news, and happenings of the sport. 52 hours of air time per year is much less than what they are spending now on sub-par coverage. I'd go out on a limb and suggest that the show should NOT be aired on the weekends...more like Monday or Tuesday night. The chances of attracting that flip-by viewer grow dramatically.

Or maybe there is nothing wrong and I am just talking out of my ass here. Perhaps the NHRA is doing everything right and there is no room for improvement. I'm just trying to figure out what this odd taste is in my Kool-Ai..........

 

[Clark W.]

All of this goes back to NHRA trying to get a piece of the NASCAR pie back in the 80's. MORE races. MORE tracks. MORE television. MORE corporate sponsors. MORE suites. We had to jump from less than 16 races a year to 24 (25 if you count the 50th year). All of the things that "elevated" the sport to the "next plateau" have come back to turn this into a business and nothing more.

As the number of events increased and as the television coverage became more expensive to purchase, the ticket prices went up. At the same time, economies of scale gave birth to the large team dynasties we are faced with today. Think back if you will to when the television coverage was two weeks delayed at best and we only had 16 national event, tops. You had regional nitro teams that could show up and kick some "touring" teams' butts. The stands were beyond capacity at those events. Race cars still had names. Drivers had real personalities and they even worked on their rides.

Not only do we need to take a huge step back in technology, drag racing needs to take a long look in the mirror and venture back into the live event/entertainment business rather than the creative accounting and finance industry. I've said this before and I dare say it again. Drag racing is not a television sport and does not need the boob tube in order to prosper. Fewer events...say 18 per season max. Realistic and reasonable ticket prices...and food prices. Hint, hint...the ADRL formula anyone?

On the technical side, yes, the nitro package needs a makeover. Impactful reductions in fuel volume, ignition power, air/fuel delivery compression (blowers), and downforce would indeed reduce long term operating costs and provide the performance numbers. The hardware available today would enable a 4000-4500 horsepower nitro engine to last much, much longer. No more block splitting volcanoes of mechanical disagreement. 4.70/305 Top Fuelers and 4.90/300 Funny Cars would satisfy me just fine, thank you. Funny Car (and Pro Stock) body designs that resemble their consumer counterparts and lack the pick-up bed sitting on the deck lid. Less rear wing surface area or a lower height on the pipe racks. Lighter cars would indeed be better...less loading on the engine (nitro loves load, folks) and much easier to stop! Traction control=YES. Dry hops=YES. Fire burnouts=YES. Okay...maybe I got carried away with that last one.

In order to placate those damn sponsors, instead of having a 3-hour replay-a-thon on the same day of the events, develop a 1-hour weekly show on a network that is not of ESPN affiliation. Use this show to cover the events, news, and happenings of the sport. 52 hours of air time per year is much less than what they are spending now on sub-par coverage. I'd go out on a limb and suggest that the show should NOT be aired on the weekends...more like Monday or Tuesday night. The chances of attracting that flip-by viewer grow dramatically.

Or maybe there is nothing wrong and I am just talking out of my ass here. Perhaps the NHRA is doing everything right and there is no room for improvement. I'm just trying to figure out what this odd taste is in my Kool-Ai..........

You are spot on Wes. The problem is the major players (Shoe, Force, AJ, Bernstein, NHRA, etc.) are blinded by doing business as usual. They either don't care, are too busy, or don't want to admit there is a serious problem. Something happened to NHRA Championship Drag Racing on the way to becoming a major player in motorsports. We forgot our core values and roots. I am not a major nostalgia supporter but I enjoy what I am seeing and the support this group is gaining. Look back at some old pictures and video. We had more of everything - fans, cars, atmosphere, and fun. We need to fix our sport ASAP. Uncle Eddie was right, Big money ruins everything.........

 

[FuelFC]

Don't just blame the inmates, somebody's supposed to run the asylum!

 

[mick]

just watch this.....what's wrong with it?.........nothing IMO
especially watch episode 1/8 - listen to how mac & evans spin pro stock - kept
you riveted, at least a lot more than can be said about today's PS coverage.

were we all too spoiled from the mid 80's & 90's?
mac,evans & frey doing the call / still setting new et & mph marks / 100% nitro
funny cars still looked cool / bleachers were packed / winston was involved

i was in love with nhra winston drag racing during this era.
maybe 50% attraction presently?
attribute that to growing older?.....some, but honestly i think more towards
a lessening of quality of product. (one guy's opinion)

YouTube - 1994 NHRA Houston Slick 50 Nationals 4/8

 

[Nitromike]

Is it me or does it just seem that Cruz and Tony are the only ones Wining all the time! If Tony wants to go slower then go to Alcohol Funny cars.

 

[Nitrohelper]

... then put an overdrive restriction to maximize the restrictor plate.

They already have a restrictor device on the cars, just go back to a bugcatcher size butterflys in the injector hat...
My previous statement "don't add anything ,take things away" the throttle plates could be measured without taking anything apart,reduce tech procedures...

 

[Rexfiles]

OK then.

Why?

Since Scott's accident, nearing the two year mark, perusing most every message board on the 'net, reading countless Magazine and E-Zine articles from top Tuners, builders, drivers, crewmen, and fans............

Why NOTHING except shortening the distance and improving the sand traps

Crap, I could almost figure out how to slow these things down by myself (If I could figure out how to get one to start)

I mean, after reading this stuff for years, I feel like a walking tech article.

Sooooooo, why don't the teams or the NHRA just do this "simple stuff"?

And I'm not being a wise guy (at least not now).

I mean, most of it is stupid simple, meaning it makes a lot of sense.

So, what is stopping it?

I really don't get it.

REX

 

[Nitrohelper]

... what is stopping it...

Two popular theories floating around...
#1 the NHRA marketing guys believe that you need 320 mph cars to draw the fans...
#2 the team owners have millions of dollars invested in data acquisition , and don't want to lose that investment...

If the fans and sponsored cars continue to decrease ,maybe something will change after this year ?
The fact that the nostalgia FC car count is now approaching 100 ,says something about lowering the cost of providing Nitro entertainment for the competitors and fans at the grass roots level...
5.80 @ 245 mph in 1320' with 100% Nitro seems okay for a lot of folks... 4.8s at 305 might work again , it did in the past...

 

[Ugly one]

The day is coming, maybe as soon as 2012 when the program consists of 8 T/F 8 F/C 8 NT/F & 8 NF/C's
T/F & F/C will be racing for points and the nostalgia cars will be a bought in match race, racing for bragging rights and some spare change at the end of the year.
NHRA has been paying way to much attention to the nostalgia movement lately not to be thinking about implementing it somehow into the Big Show as a full field of cars.
Get rid of the TV package and the WWF mentality and go back to racing.
Use the saved dollars from the TV deal to promote it better on a local level and put some butts in the seats at a reasonable price.

 

[n/a]

Hey there Kev, I haven't seen you on here since the Phx. fiasco!

Anyway, Gary Densham was just on espn, and he layed it all out for everyone to understand the differences between a modern F/C and the Nostalgia cars...

smaller blowers, smaller engine (426" or less) smaller pump, no huge spoilers / wings...

NHRA is even show casing these cars at some of the national events and on tv, so What the F'K IS THE HOLD UP lets go back to the better, simpler days of drag racing!!!

JUST MY OPINION!!!!

Larry FULTON

 

[Chi-Town Brown]

NITRO is just like Diesel.. it's a solvent. Introduce a Solvent into an engine and it dilutes the OIL and thus the metals in the engine can not be effectively lubricated. When this occurs, it creates friction, then heat then eventually failure of ferris based and other metal materials....(Bearings, Rods, Pistons, Push Rods, Valves...name it... they all suffer from cylinder wash)

Seems to me, this has been the root problem in working with Nitro for ever. Fix the root problem, perhaps other things will improve? What's that saying, sometimes the simplest solution is the right one?

Removing Nitro from the tank isn't an option