Short Fields in Both Classes?

[rocketman]

There was a time in the mid 80's when several NHRA National events were 8 car fields (the cajun nationals was one) while others were 16. It's possible that we could see it again. I hope that NHRA's new spec pump will help increase the participation but the snake in the grass is the move for higher taxation, higher energy prices and cap and trade which could zap out of the economy what little discretionary income that people still have to go to races let alone race.

Glad you folks in St. Louis got to see full fields after all.

 

[Raconteur]

I was hearing that very thing back around 92-93! Fuel racing at Natl. events is dying Fast! I remember before last season everyone was predicting Top Fuel Dragster Dead even saying we'd be lucky to see Full Fields at most races! Didn't happen....Same old...

Joe, come on, re-read what was written. If you don't think that independent racers have been forced out of National Events, you are not looking that the picture. I don't believe that "everyone was predicting Top Fuel Dragster Dead" as you say. I'll ask you this, what new independent team, that you know of, is building nitro funny cars or top fuelers to join the remaining races of this season?

Can you name one?

Believe it or not, like it or not, drag racing is changing, were it not for Don Schumacher, Connie Kalitta or John Force, this would be a very different racing season. They can't all do it forever.

 

[megadeth]

I just did, call me when you get it.

It was a joke Darr!
I'll tell you what, when you get a sense of humor, YOU call me!

 

[Toejam]

Joe, come on, re-read what was written. If you don't think that independent racers have been forced out of National Events, you are not looking that the picture. I don't believe that "everyone was predicting Top Fuel Dragster Dead" as you say. I'll ask you this, what new independent team, that you know of, is building nitro funny cars or top fuelers to join the remaining races of this season?

Can you name one?

Believe it or not, like it or not, drag racing is changing, were it not for Don Schumacher, Connie Kalitta or John Force, this would be a very different racing season. They can't all do it forever.

Darr, everybody would love to see 25 FC's and Dragsters at every race, that hasn't happened since the 70's! Speaking of independents....what do you call Pat Dakin, Terry Haddock, Steve Christman or Luigi Novelli?

 

[Raconteur]

Darr, everybody would love to see 25 FC's and Dragsters at every race, that hasn't happened since the 70's! Speaking of independents....what do you call Pat Dakin, Terry Haddock, Steve Christman or Luigi Novelli?

Joe, let's try again... what new independent team, that you know of, is building nitro funny cars or top fuelers to join the remaining races of this season?

 

[Treeshaker]

Joe, let's try again... what new independent team, that you know of, is building nitro funny cars or top fuelers to join the remaining races of this season?

I don't know what everyone's plans are for this year but there are quite a few planning on running the series next year. No names to be revealed to protect the guilty.

Funny Car

Two alcohol funny car competitors that thought about this year but decided to wait till next year. Both have the money in place.

Another driver that will be licensing in a nitro funny car Monday after the national event in Atlanta.

Three additional cars that are built, tested and ready to go that are just working to get sufficient funding.

Top Fuel

Two cars that have contracts for funding that the companies fell on hard times. They are ready to run, but looking for other sources to help out.

Two new cars that are in process (driver's have been fitted) that plan on testing over the winter to run the entire circuit next year. These are high dollar with backing in place.

Three additional teams that have plans to run top fuel, but time frames vary as the drivers/teams are new and they are progressing as fast as their abilities will warrant. Money is not an issue with these teams.

I would have thought that a top secret agent for a high profile e-zine would have known about all of these, and more.

 

[Sean D, shondoo]

Joe, let's try again... what new independent team, that you know of, is building nitro funny cars or top fuelers to join the remaining races of this season?

Amen, Darr.

It's unfathomable to me that Glendora can't see that the only reason the fuel contingent exists under the current format is because of those three entities. They had better get serious, and fast, about getting the costs back under control. And by serious, I don't mean a 60-gallon pump test here, or a single-mag test there. It's time to get on top of this situation and do what it takes to get more cars to the races.

Sean D

 

[mick]

Amen, Darr.

It's unfathomable to me that Glendora can't see that the only reason the fuel contingent exists under the current format is because of those three entities. They had better get serious, and fast, about getting the costs back under control. And by serious, I don't mean a 60-gallon pump test here, or a single-mag test there. It's time to get on top of this situation and do what it takes to get more cars to the races.

Sean D

agreed sean - old adage 'rather have 10 $10 dollar jobs than one $100 job'

 

[Nunz]

Virgil, that's some pretty cool intel. I have a real serious question for you. Why is it that when NHRA tries to test a milder motor or a smaller pump or anything to come up with a slower, safer, less expensive fuel car (that could run 1320 ft. i hope), it seems that all the big show guys say that it's a waste, it'll end up costing more, leave 'em alone, etc. ? I mean, am I idealistic in thinking that with today's parts combined with a calmer fuel/air combo, we could have consistent, fast cars that more people could afford to race? Is that not possible? Or do the drivers and tuners fortunate enough to work for the big owners really not care about attracting more people to the party...

 

[Toejam]

Joe, let's try again... what new independent team, that you know of, is building nitro funny cars or top fuelers to join the remaining races of this season?

What difference does that make if the fields are full? When was the last time NHRA had over 25 Fuel cars at every race?

 

[Nunz]

Joe I'm not sure what your point is. It's been several years since we've had that many. But, without having several cars above and beyond 16, it really takes a lot of excitement away from qualifying, don't you think? The pro classes have become boringly predictable, having said that, I still love it, but it sure would be nice to have more depth, more surprises. And the crazy costs just make it tough.

 

[Toejam]

Joe I'm not sure what your point is. It's been several years since we've had that many. But, without having several cars above and beyond 16, it really takes a lot of excitement away from qualifying, don't you think? The pro classes have become boringly predictable, having said that, I still love it, but it sure would be nice to have more depth, more surprises. And the crazy costs just make it tough.

When have the Pro classes not been predictable? I can't remember in the last 30 years when you didn't have 1-2 cars dominate every year! From Prudhomme and Beatle in the 70's, to Garlits and Bernstein in the 80's, to Force and Schumacher now? Even in Pro stock whether it was Bob Glidden or WJ, to Greg Anderson or Mike Edwards now, same deal.

 

[Treeshaker]

Virgil, that's some pretty cool intel. I have a real serious question for you. Why is it that when NHRA tries to test a milder motor or a smaller pump or anything to come up with a slower, safer, less expensive fuel car (that could run 1320 ft. i hope), it seems that all the big show guys say that it's a waste, it'll end up costing more, leave 'em alone, etc. ? I mean, am I idealistic in thinking that with today's parts combined with a calmer fuel/air combo, we could have consistent, fast cars that more people could afford to race? Is that not possible? Or do the drivers and tuners fortunate enough to work for the big owners really not care about attracting more people to the party...

Why would they want to change if they are successful with the current combination and have a bunch of parts to continue running this way?

Shortsightedness - is that a word? But what I mean is that as participants, we have lost sight of what will make the sport better as a whole while we concentrate on how we, ourselves, can benefit, and this includes the sanctioning body and fans.

It takes a lot of desire and dedication to be able to be a participant. This has always been true, but the dedication part gets greater as time goes on. What happens to the sport when DS, CK, JF and/or KB lose the desire to continue? Will those teams continue the same as they are today, or will they go the way of DPR? Will that open up the arena to others that are not able to compete today? How will the playing field change? One truism is that with time change will occur, whether it is good or bad depends on the ones that have worked to gain the power to invoke the change. The little guys will find a way to compete when their "want" gets great enough to put in the dedication it takes to be there. Look at WJ this past weekend.

An old adage that I heard many, many years ago, is that a racer will spend 4 times what he can win to be a winner of a series/event. Do the math and you will understand the 3-5 million dollar budgets in drag racing, or the 15 plus million team budgets in NASCAR.

 

[Toejam]

If smaller pumps are the ticket to less explosions, why are so many owner's/Tuner's saying it will increase explosions???

 

[mick]

If smaller pumps are the ticket to less explosions, why are so many owner's/Tuner's saying it will increase explosions???

because they're not addressing air intake in conjunction with less fuel.

 

[Treeshaker]

because they're not addressing air intake in conjunction with less fuel.

How do you propose this to be done on a supercharged motor?

When they first looked at slowing cars down several years ago, a restrictor plate was the first solution thought of. It was tested on a well know engine manufacturer's blower dyno and the blower made more boost with the restrictor on top than it did without.

Set back manifolds have an intake opening about the size of a 4 barrel carb manifold.

So you restrict the overdrive. Look at classes that have done this and you will see that a lot of the quickest and fastest cars are not overdriving their blowers to the limit. Why? Because blower science has advanced tremendously to the point that they are very efficient and the lower the overdrive the less power you loose to driving the blower.

Restricting the fuel volume will force the tuner to restrict the air flow into the motor to an amicable amount. The cars that will suffer the most are running them like Jim Dunn where they are pulling the motors down to 6500 rpm in the valley. The quick cars right now do not go below 7700 rpm at any point in the run. Restrict the fuel or air, and you will see a rise in these rpms which will create more fuel and air out of the restricted pieces.

 

[NitroRichFire]

I don't know what everyone's plans are for this year but there are quite a few planning on running the series next year. No names to be revealed to protect the guilty.

Funny Car

Two alcohol funny car competitors that thought about this year but decided to wait till next year. Both have the money in place.

Another driver that will be licensing in a nitro funny car Monday after the national event in Atlanta.

Three additional cars that are built, tested and ready to go that are just working to get sufficient funding.

Top Fuel

Two cars that have contracts for funding that the companies fell on hard times. They are ready to run, but looking for other sources to help out.

Two new cars that are in process (driver's have been fitted) that plan on testing over the winter to run the entire circuit next year. These are high dollar with backing in place.

Three additional teams that have plans to run top fuel, but time frames vary as the drivers/teams are new and they are progressing as fast as their abilities will warrant. Money is not an issue with these teams.

I would have thought that a top secret agent for a high profile e-zine would have known about all of these, and more.

Mr. Hartman, of these teams you are talking about, I sure hope one or two of them include your teams. Have a great week and hope to see you back at the track very soon!!!

 

[mick]

How do you propose this to be done on a supercharged motor?

When they first looked at slowing cars down several years ago, a restrictor plate was the first solution thought of. It was tested on a well know engine manufacturer's blower dyno and the blower made more boost with the restrictor on top than it did without.

Set back manifolds have an intake opening about the size of a 4 barrel carb manifold.

So you restrict the overdrive. Look at classes that have done this and you will see that a lot of the quickest and fastest cars are not overdriving their blowers to the limit. Why? Because blower science has advanced tremendously to the point that they are very efficient and the lower the overdrive the less power you loose to driving the blower.

Restricting the fuel volume will force the tuner to restrict the air flow into the motor to an amicable amount. The cars that will suffer the most are running them like Jim Dunn where they are pulling the motors down to 6500 rpm in the valley. The quick cars right now do not go below 7700 rpm at any point in the run. Restrict the fuel or air, and you will see a rise in these rpms which will create more fuel and air out of the restricted pieces.

ok, more stuff i didn't know.......thank you.
are you suggesting that in the world of 'haves' and 'have nots' in the fuel
classes, very efficient blowers are found on.........
a) only a few select teams?
b) most touring fuel teams?

 

[AAFA-Freak]

Virgil
If they moved the Blowers back to the original location and stopped them from using the plate for smaller opening back like standard opening blowers and manifolds. Plus remove the down nozzles in the heads limit them to 16 nozzles.
Remove one 44 amp mag.

Leave the pump at 100 GPH I bet they would run like the injected nitro TAD cars.
Or even more radical make every one run two speeds again!

Guess I will just go Nostalgia Racing.
Sorry for burning band width!

 

[mick]

How do you propose this to be done on a supercharged motor?..........

to answer your direct question, how does 'i have no idea' sound
has the amount air going into engine increased as has fuel
in last decade or so? or has sq. inch opening area of injector hat remained about
the same and the increased air has been blower generated?