Red Lights (1 Viewer)
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Glenn not sure if that was the case, but I do remember the first 3-4 races there were a TON of PS redlights, NHRA added like .015 or something close that's just a guess. But they did slow the lights for that Class.
Call me crazy, but isnt it entirely up to the driver to control whether or not they leave too early? Maybe they need to make an adjustment within themselves.
I know when I'm at the track in my car, if I redlight all the time, thats my problem. I wonder what would happen if I asked the track to change the timing on the tree?
I know when I'm at the track in my car, if I redlight all the time, thats my problem. I wonder what would happen if I asked the track to change the timing on the tree?
willy
Nitro Member
If all things are equal all the time..you'd have a point, Dan..but like Matt said:
That's a horse of a different color isn't it?
Wayne
Nitro Member
Keith Burgan
Nitro Member
As was pointed out when this subject was debated last year, and re-iterated by Mike Dunn during the telecast last Sunday, the bikes react so quickly that it is easy for them to red light. When the roll out varies from track to track and in this case evidently from day to day as Matt pointed out it is extremely hard for the riders to cut a light.
On the subject of slowing down the reaction of the bike itself (also debated at length previously) that is also difficult. In a fuel car the throttle pedal ratio can be changed to help and the pro stock cars can change the clutch linkage for the same effect. The bikes leave like a pro stock, with the motor up but letting the clutch lever loose happens quicker than lifting a foot off the pedal in a car.
Looking at the sportsman categories the lighter and quicker reacting comp elim cars are prone to red lights while the super stock and stock groups do so less often because the car is slower to move (in most cases). The rest of the sportsman drivers have delay boxes so they simply program the reaction time.
The facts are that a bike rider can see yellow and still bulb while in the cars it is harder to bulb if the driver actually sees the caution light.
Roo
On the subject of slowing down the reaction of the bike itself (also debated at length previously) that is also difficult. In a fuel car the throttle pedal ratio can be changed to help and the pro stock cars can change the clutch linkage for the same effect. The bikes leave like a pro stock, with the motor up but letting the clutch lever loose happens quicker than lifting a foot off the pedal in a car.
Looking at the sportsman categories the lighter and quicker reacting comp elim cars are prone to red lights while the super stock and stock groups do so less often because the car is slower to move (in most cases). The rest of the sportsman drivers have delay boxes so they simply program the reaction time.
The facts are that a bike rider can see yellow and still bulb while in the cars it is harder to bulb if the driver actually sees the caution light.
Roo
Doug in the woods
Nitro Member
Just curious--how does the roll out change from day to day?
The track moves due to the weather conditions or ??
It would seem that an adjustment to the beams would control the roll out consitency??
The track moves due to the weather conditions or ??
It would seem that an adjustment to the beams would control the roll out consitency??
Im curious too. What changes effect the rollout?
There were six red lights in the first round of qualifying Friday, four in the second - and they normally stage shallow for qualifying, deeper for eliminations.
One of the first-round eliminations reds was way red (-.161), three were in the "Aw ^%$&#" range, -.002 to -.004 , the remaining three were -.026, -.027 and -.050. So just how much would you adjust the tree to get more green-light starts? Still would have been four red lights in the first round unless you want to change it by .026 seconds or more.
As far as rollout goes, both Bob Brockmeyer and Jeff Foster were in Houston and I doubt very much that the rollout changed between Friday and Sunday. Weather and track conditions changed a lot, however.
One of the first-round eliminations reds was way red (-.161), three were in the "Aw ^%$&#" range, -.002 to -.004 , the remaining three were -.026, -.027 and -.050. So just how much would you adjust the tree to get more green-light starts? Still would have been four red lights in the first round unless you want to change it by .026 seconds or more.
As far as rollout goes, both Bob Brockmeyer and Jeff Foster were in Houston and I doubt very much that the rollout changed between Friday and Sunday. Weather and track conditions changed a lot, however.
I set the roll-out with the same wheel/tire at all 4 NHRA nationals this year, it was the same at all of them within a 1/16 inch in the tire groove for the cars. It did not change at houston in fact it was checked 3 times on sunday (each time it dried out).
The bikes dont allways use the save groove as the cars, if there is any type of crown in the track that can create short spots in the roll-out.
This happened to a bike last year at E-town thought the found a good clean spot to stage but it was on the up hill side and the roll-out was shorter ther and caused the red light.
The bikes dont allways use the save groove as the cars, if there is any type of crown in the track that can create short spots in the roll-out.
This happened to a bike last year at E-town thought the found a good clean spot to stage but it was on the up hill side and the roll-out was shorter ther and caused the red light.
Now that explanation actually makes sense! Have you shared this with the PSB riders?
I've seen Jeff's comment and no one knows more about the timing system than he and Bob.
But here's a quote from George Bryce:
"That was the most redlights we've had at a national event, and after we only had one at Gainesville. So there was something different at Houston. The 60 foots were better at Gainesville and the reaction times were worse. At Houston it was the other way around, so the rollout was shorter. I know it sounds like sour grapes, but that's the way it was."
So I'm wondering what was going on if the bikes increased 60 foot times at the expense of reaction times. I believe Jeff when he says the rollout was dead on, so right now I'm racking my brain trying to understand what was going on.
If it was a more or less even exchange as George claims, something had to make the difference. I'm curious as to what Frank Hawley might have to say as I suppose he's the expert in vehicle/driver reaction packages.
Terry
Nitro Member
Just a thought here, but in the old days when we varied reaction times via front tire pressure, it makes me wonder if the front tire pressure chosen by the various teams could be varied enough to change things. The actual rollout distance on the track could very well be exactly the same, but the front tire itself could have more or less rollout depending on the amount of tire pressure in it. Just wondering
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