Question About Alchohol Funny Cars.... (1 Viewer)

[Jay]

I am very curious about something that I don't know much about....Maybe some of you could have some fun here, and at the same time, REALLY help me a bit..Of course, I am quite farmiliar with the Nitro cars, but never really learned about the alcolhol stuff....

What is the cost to acquire a top notch, ready to win Alcohol Funny Car? I realize there will be a range, but assume you are building it new with top stuff...

Also, what kind of budget would you need for miscelleneous shop/track equipment, and what would you buy (tools, lathe, clutch grinder, etc...)

Finally, what are the ongoing costs to run these alcohol car, and where is the money typically spent....?

Thanks....I look forward to hearing your responses...

 

[Toejam]

Jay, I'm guessing a 5.50 car could run $85-90,000? That's just a guess since back in the 90's top notch cars were pulling $65-70,000! As for the cost... Jay Payne told me you can figure $2,000 a run. I'm sure Randy Goodwin can set me straight if I'm wayy off.

 

[r2]

JR
You seem to be interested in numbers...
You seem to also have mine on speed dial...
Use it when you need a shoe please...
I am not cheap however... LOL
What you cookin up here bro??
A training session for the big boyz??

 

[Randy]

A while back I did a detailed post breaking down the cost of one complete TA/FC engine. The total was $75,000 for the engine alone.

A complete car depending on how nuts you want to get can cost up to $175,000 for all the best stuff. Spare parts are a must. You need a couple sets of heads, short blocks, lots of clutch discs and floaters, a couple rear ends and a couple trannies. Keep in mind these are high maintenance items.

There are two types of competitive teams out there. Some are on the road with full time employees like Jay Payne. Others, like us, are run with part time guys or voluntary crews that consist of hard core racers. The difference between the two budgets is the manpower to do it. Keeping full time people involves salaries, taxes and insurance, plus lodging. Having a part time crew involves much the same plus a lot of plane tickets. Parts bills almost get lost in the cost when you consider all this.

Full time competitive teams are going to spend anywhere from a low of $250,000 to about $500,000 per year for 18-23 events. 12-15 events for a part time team and you are looking at $150,000 (if you are very lucky and very carefull) to $250,000 (again, if you are very lucky and carefull). You can spend under $100,000 if you do less races, don't update the parts like you should and have guys paying their own way. It will catch up with you in the long run, though, as your parts wear out.

Before this year the last full year I ran was with Larry Miner driving for me in 2005. We ran it as hard as we could and had pretty good luck in that we didn't blow up a lot of stuff. Taking a look at the year as a whole, $2,000 per run as you mentioned isn't going to cut it at all.

RG

 

[Jay]

JR
You seem to be interested in numbers...
You seem to also have mine on speed dial...
Use it when you need a shoe please...
I am not cheap however... LOL
What you cookin up here bro??
A training session for the big boyz??

Nothing YET...I am brewing an idea....As you know Ray, I am working on something right now, but the idea is similar to a driver development program, but in THIS case, a "Sponsor Development" program...What I am pondering has never been done before, and if in fact I do it, and it works, it could pay large dividends...

I would own this team, just because I would have some very specific goals and I would want to maintain control to be sure that they were hit so that we could move our partners up....

This is an idea at this point, so any input would be very helpful....

Jay

 

[Jay]

A while back I did a detailed post breaking down the cost of one complete TA/FC engine. The total was $75,000 for the engine alone.

A complete car depending on how nuts you want to get can cost up to $175,000 for all the best stuff. Spare parts are a must. You need a couple sets of heads, short blocks, lots of clutch discs and floaters, a couple rear ends and a couple trannies. Keep in mind these are high maintenance items.

There are two types of competitive teams out there. Some are on the road with full time employees like Jay Payne. Others, like us, are run with part time guys or voluntary crews that consist of hard core racers. The difference between the two budgets is the manpower to do it. Keeping full time people involves salaries, taxes and insurance, plus lodging. Having a part time crew involves much the same plus a lot of plane tickets. Parts bills almost get lost in the cost when you consider all this.

Full time competitive teams are going to spend anywhere from a low of $250,000 to about $500,000 per year for 18-23 events. 12-15 events for a part time team and you are looking at $150,000 (if you are very lucky and very carefull) to $250,000 (again, if you are very lucky and carefull). You can spend under $100,000 if you do less races, don't update the parts like you should and have guys paying their own way. It will catch up with you in the long run, though, as your parts wear out.

Before this year the last full year I ran was with Larry Miner driving for me in 2005. We ran it as hard as we could and had pretty good luck in that we didn't blow up a lot of stuff. Taking a look at the year as a whole, $2,000 per run as you mentioned isn't going to cut it at all.

RG

Randy...you are awsome...! Question....I can figure out the travel and so forth...What I really need is to figure out what are you spending on each run, as an average, for your consumables...ie. clutch discs, oil, floaters, pistons, belts, tires, etc...

The other component would be how many people you would need to compete at all of the NHRA national events...My thought is a crew chief ($50,000-$60,000), and maybe 2 other mechanics that might be just getting their start in professional racing ($35,000-$40,000)...Make sense?

 

[Wes]

Randy beat me to it...as usual.

$350,000-$500,000 will get you the hard parts/inventory:

Turn-key ready to race car with all the baddest stuff on it
All of your spare engines, clutches, transmissions, rear-ends, wheels/tires, etc.
Tools
Tools
Tools
Class 8 (i.e., Peterbilt) hauler with all the ammenities for crew, family, sponsors.
Tools (did I mention tools?)
Tune-up
Paint/vinyl
Uniforms-firesuit-apparel
Consumeables for the entire season (oil, fuel, fluids, plugs, tires, etc.)
Tow vehicle for the track (something small, manuverable like a Yamaha Mule)
Crew SUV/Van-so they can travel to and from the hotel and road trip to the races.
Shop equipment to perform between race maintenance/repairs.

Then figure on the $2000-$2500 (or just figure a minimum of $12,500 per event in fixed costs) per run average once you start running the car. That would include crew chief/crew travel/lodging/meals, hauler travel, entry fees/tickets, food/drinks, and costs associated with the car actually running.

I'm not sure what a full-time crew chief is getting paid these days in TAFC, but you can always work a deal to buy a tune-up and hands-on consultation (ala Tom Conway) at the events. Might be cheaper than an exclusive, full-time guy...and it will cultivate new tuners. If you are going to hire a shoe, figure a minimum of $60,000 for a fly-and-drive pilot. A bit more if he/she has his/her Class A CDL (like me).

Hope that helps!

 

[Toejam]

Randy I knew you'd set me straight! But I doubt someone selling a Turnkey 5.50 car's going to ask $175,000 either! I haven't gotten ND for a couple of years now so I have NO idea what those things are fetching. I'm curious what Frank Manzo's parts bill is running those 5.40's like he does....

 

[BlueStangGT]

I think the Lewis family has Brandon's car for sale. They're going A/F racing.

 

[TAFC 5 81]

This is an interesting look at the cost of TAFC racing vs. 30 years ago. My first racecar was a BBFC (completed between mid 1976 and early 1978). The car was a ex nitro FC. The only new parts were a Rodeck 481 block, Lenco 3 spd, Super Mag II, birdcatcher, and several minor items. Transported by a used (1975) Chevy crew cab and 32' Chaparral trailer. Few spare parts and no paid crew. Total <$30,000. I will guess cost per run about $250. My quote RE this is; "back then several average guys could pool their money and race, now you have to pool it to watch".

 

[r2]

JR
I think what Wes is trying to say is, WE will need some tools... Luckily, Bro in law is senior sales rep for Danaher Corp... All the tools we need Buddy...
I'm certainly not going to say Randy is old... But he has been around running on his own dimes for a long time, and knows his stuff... Miner Bros. are my cousins by marriage... Doubt any great deal on a Fontana motor combo, however Bob Miner is a very good tuner... My pick-up will make a very nice tow vehicle, and my fee for driving has always been, room and board at your Vegas home... And yes I will keep the pool clean as well... LOL There, just saved you some serious scratch, and you didn't even have to call me yet!!

 

[Jay]

Ghio..you are always a riot...lol Cal me at my office when you get a chance..I'll PM you the number...I lost the sim card for my cell phone, and have NO idea where it is right now, so it could be a few days...lol

 

[d'kid]

So when do I pack up and move to the Great Central Valley?

(Kathleen's gonna kill me.....)

 

[Randy]

I don't pay anything for a crew chief. And I'm definately getting my moneys worth. LOL.

The price for a car I quoted was all brand new stuff. There are cars for sale from time to time that will get you started a lot cheaper. Paul Gill has a very fast TA/FC for sale right now that has proven itself (5.49 at Gainsville). I'm surprised he hasn't sold it already.

The OP asked for "top notch". Many people run on less and it can be done. Like I said...very luck and very careful.

RG

 

[Jay]

I don't pay anything for a crew chief. And I'm definately getting my moneys worth. LOL.

The price for a car I quoted was all brand new stuff. There are cars for sale from time to time that will get you started a lot cheaper. Paul Gill has a very fast TA/FC for sale right now that has proven itself (5.49 at Gainsville). I'm surprised he hasn't sold it already.

The OP asked for "top notch". Many people run on less and it can be done. Like I said...very luck and very careful.

RG

Randy...do you know how to reach him...? I just talked to Ghio and he mentioned that you and I should chat soon, as well...

 

[shawn fleischmann]

Randy...do you know how to reach him...? I just talked to Ghio and he mentioned that you and I should chat soon, as well...

insidetopalcohol.com - Paul Gills Funny Car Operation for sale

 

[Toejam]

I don't pay anything for a crew chief. And I'm definately getting my moneys worth. LOL.

The price for a car I quoted was all brand new stuff. There are cars for sale from time to time that will get you started a lot cheaper. Paul Gill has a very fast TA/FC for sale right now that has proven itself (5.49 at Gainsville). I'm surprised he hasn't sold it already.

The OP asked for "top notch". Many people run on less and it can be done. Like I said...very luck and very careful.

RG

Randy as I'm sure you'll agree. The costs between running mid 60's and low 50's has to be Huge! When you say many people run on less, I'm guessing your referring to those teams who just aren't going to risk they're equipment trying to run 50's. Thus running Mid 60's-Low 70's is all they can muster on a modest budget.

 

[Jimmy Hart]

Here's one ofr ya!

TAFC COMPLETE OPERATION LOTS OF PARTS - Free Classifieds Powered By Racingjunk.com

 

[Sandy]

I have a friend that finished in the top 5 year before last and spent 1 mil for the year. Thats a lot of money out of your own pocket. Given he is prone to breaking a lot of parts

 

[Toejam]

Here's one ofr ya!

TAFC COMPLETE OPERATION LOTS OF PARTS - Free Classifieds Powered By Racingjunk.com

I guess that answers the question as to how much a Turnkey cars going for? I'm sure how quick Brandon's gone, but $90,000 must sound pretty cheap anymore. I wonder if Paul Gill will ask more than $110,000 for his piece now he's run .40's???