NHRA Tech says to DSR Top Fuelers "Take It Off"!

[my friends call me Zappy]

Here is a thought....There is one organization the could benefit from DSR leaving NHRA and that is IHRA.... Mr. Schumacher could have 4 dragsters and 4 funny cars and they could put on a show for IHRA. They obviously proved the can pack a racetrack in the last 2 years. Who knows maybe they can get IHRA to go back to a qualified field. I am sure if he leaves NHRA other might follow his lead......Just a thought.

I agree. Maybe this will be the final straw. I would love to see Don and the other owners that are fed up with nhra, either go to IHRA, or (even better) form their own NEW org. Nhra is killing our sport. Just a very few could make such a difference, Shoe, Kalitta,Forest Lucas,Al Anabi, Force.....

 

[TSK]

Besides the cockpit design debacle, the one thing that stood out in the article, to me anyway, was KB whining about not having access to the same injector DSR had.
Why should all teams have access to the same parts? Is KB wanting a spec car like the stupid nascar car of tomorrow, or whatever they call it?
Hasn't KB heard of the term "innovation"?
KB's whining reminds me of the pro stock contingent back in the early '70s when the Mopars were winning everything. Instead of Ford and GM telling their engineers to come up with a better design, they cried to NHRA and got the Mopars factored into oblivion.
I guess KB subscribes to "If you can't beat them, ban them" philosophy.
If DSR pulls out of NHRA, the fuel categories will be lucky to field 12 to 14 cars per event.
First, the nitro BS, now the injector and cockpit design. Why should Don Schumacher continue investing untold time and money into the sport?

 

[my friends call me Zappy]

was KB whining about not having access to the same injector DSR had.
Why should all teams have access to the same parts?

KB didn't feel that way when he was hiding his stuff under the "TERRIBLE TOWEL"

 

[shoe]

Thanks for everyones comments and feelings. Time to go to Vegas and race. DSR is looking forward to racing in ten days.

 

[my friends call me Zappy]

This is not the first time you have been treated unfairly, it has not gone unnoticed.

 

[NitroBruin]

I am amazed that no one has mentioned the Lee Beard angle to this story is it possible that Beards departure from DSR plays a role in the removal of the shrouds becasue it smells a little fishy to see him leave and within days of his departure DSR is ordered to take them off.

 

[Dragracer]

I really love this discussion. Everyone has come out of the woods with some of the most off the wall ideas I have ever heard. Some blame NHRA and others DSR.
The thing is the only one who knows the "TOTAL - TRUE" story is Don Schumacher. It is his cars and his workers that researched and designed the higher windshield and roll bar shroud. DSR is the only one that truely knows the intention.
Everyone in drag racing has their favorites. Mine don't include the DSR cars, there are others that I have as favorites. That doesn't mean I dislike any of the DSR drivers and cars. DSR has some great cars and drivers. I raced S/C for years against Jack Beckman and I am so happy he is having a great year but I am rooting for Zippy but if Jack wins then I will be happy for him.

Don, even though I'am not a fan I hope you and NHRA can get through this and everyone can get back to the business of racing. Being the car owner and large business owner you are I believe you are a ethical person and I do not believe DSR was trying to pull the wool over NHRA or anyone else's eyes.

Have a good week between now and Vegas. Hopefully the track will be better there than Phoenix was.

 

[mick]

IMO the 'shroud' has obvious safety features, beyond air pressure.

 

[Just Paul]

KB didn't feel that way when he was hiding his stuff under the "TERRIBLE TOWEL"

HA! I was just going to post the same thing.

 

[twostep]

Thanks for everyones comments and feelings. Time to go to Vegas and race. DSR is looking forward to racing in ten days.

What happened with the shrouds had to be aggravating (and expensive), but to me a more important issue was the fact that your team (Gray, Hagen) raced straight-up yesterday in round 2. I realize that's what you're supposed to do, but nonetheless, I was impressed.

 

[Draw 3D]

Nobody forced any other team to hire engineers to do a study, they chose to do that on their own.

You're joking, right?

The "other" team perceives an advantage and is backed up by an independent aerodynamic engineering company and they shouldn't pursue it?

Using your logic, why did dsr do it since "nobody forced" them?

 

[you]

What happened with the shrouds had to be aggravating (and expensive), but to me a more important issue was the fact that your team (Gray, Hagen) raced straight-up yesterday in round 2. I realize that's what you're supposed to do, but nonetheless, I was impressed.

Agreed Carl. The number of times Tony has come to the line against one of his teammates this year, but has yet to win a race, echoe's that as well.

 

[Rajunz]

KB didn't feel that way when he was hiding his stuff under the "TERRIBLE TOWEL"

A few more things come to mind, Vortex Generators, One Off Bodies, 2 Speed Blower, Lock Up Clutch, On Board Data Acquisition............etc.

Innovation was all good when he had the edge on the field.........

 

[Draw 3D]

Innovation is great and one of the reasons I love drag racing.

That being said, in today's PROFESSIONAL racing world, innovation means teams of engineers and being very costly, too costly for the "none-A" teams.

The shroud, which really isn't that big of a deal, cost "tens of thousands of dollars" according to dsr.

Now a second team wants to do the same thing, and knowing racers, they would take it to the next level, eventually a full blown aerodynamics war would ensue.

If you want to kill pro drag racing, let them go to the nascar, indy and f1 budgets, those motor sports have a much larger CORPORATE draw that currently allows them to exist.

Drag racing does not yet have that large corporate draw and I personally hope it never reaches that level for then it will gone for the "little" teams, the teams I like to root for.

 

[Just Paul]

A few more things come to mind, Vortex Generators, One Off Bodies, 2 Speed Blower, Lock Up Clutch, On Board Data Acquisition............etc.

Innovation was all good when he had the edge on the field.........

Thanks AA Dale! Add 40" Overhang too among others.

Everything on that list except for the bodies others could get or make themselves.

Same thing on this cage shroud.. Brad Hadman or Murf Mckinney could whip them out and make them standard on TF cars with little effort, and not much extra cost. (Aside from doing their own aero studies if they wanted.)

Speaking of Lee Beard and Aero, remember when Whit Bazemore showed up at Indy 2001 with his trick Firebird body and the first multi section rear spoiler, and promptly ran the fastest speed ever (325 plus)??

 

[TR]

Nobody forced any other team to hire engineers to do a study, they chose to do that on their own.

I guess I am a little confused when it comes to the engineering study. Didn't I hear Graham Light say that they had the data and engineering study to prove that the shroud didn't do what it was supposed to do. He said something to the effect we have the engineering data to prove that it doesn't do what it supposed to do, eg. protect the driver. Maybe I had a few too many bud Lights when I thought/did hear this from graham Light. If he did say that, where did they get their engineering data, from some other rat fink team?

Rick

 

[mick]

......Speaking of Lee Beard and Aero, remember when Whit Bazemore showed up at Indy with his trick Firebird body and the first multi section rear spoiler, and promptly ran the fastest speed ever (325 plus)??

yes, remember well - in fact, yesterday when todd lesenko ran with older
worsham body and older style 'fins' in rear spoiler, you could really see how
much the design has changed over the last few years (size and shape of fins)

 

[Gordon]

To say I was beside myself watching the telecast last night would be a dramatic understatement. After having read all the posts here today, I offer the following, strictly from a fan's perspective:

1. Graham Light may be the smartest man on the planet, but he sounded utterly ignorant when he was interviewed last night. If a team sends in a proposal to modify their race car(s) and you approve it, stand by your decision. If you didn't do the research necessary to approve or deny the request based on what the team was attempting to accomplish, DO NOT ANNOUNCE THAT TO THE ENTIRE FREE WORLD - it makes you sound like an idiot. If, however, you did do the research and you felt it accomplished what the team intended, then again, STAND BY YOUR DECISION. Lastly, if other teams are whining (yes, I said whining - I'm tired of political correctness) that there's a performance advantage and you look at the record books and see a non-DSR car holds the national ET record, tell the other teams to get over themselves and innovate their own performance advantage.

2. When a team, DSR or otherwise, submits a modification request per NHRA's established rules and guidelines and gets it approved by NHRA and then has the decision reversed this late in the season, something stinks, and it stinks bad. Had they (NHRA) come out three or even six races into the season and said something to the effect, "Hey, we talked with some outside engineers and did some follow on research and we feel your chassis modifications don't increase safety as you had stated, and as such, because safety is our primary concern, we are changing our stance and asking you to remove the shell" I'd have had a lot more respect for them. Instead, with three races left in the season and all three of DSR's Top Fuel cars in a heated points battle, Graham announces the mandated change because other teams were complaining and then, almost as an oh, by the way, "we don't feel it improves safety after all..." What a joke!

3. If there was indeed a performance advantage, then good for DSR. It's not like they hid the modification under a towel! It's right there, front and center for everyone to see. I find it hard to believe that even the low-budget Top Fuel teams couldn't afford to modify their cages/windshields to match what DSR was doing if they felt it would improve performance. The sport was founded on innovation and as it becomes harder and harder to accomplish, I applaud anyone who finds something new and improved.

It gets harder and harder to be excited about fuel racing, and maybe that's what Graham and Tom Compton are working towards. As a fan, I'm losing interest quickly.

 

[FC138fan]

Pretty wild, vast majority pointing the finger at the NHRA, insinuating that NHRA is dead against innovation. Excuse me while I offer an alternative view (my take)

Not knowing anything else but what I read in the article, Don went to NHRA proposing a safety improvement (I don't know what that improvement was... but I assume it was for fire protection) - the shrouded cockpit. NHRA takes Don at his word and allows the improvement. Then the Reading fire happens, and they snap a photo of Antron with fire in the cockpit. If my assumption is correct (that the reason for the shroud was to prevent fire from entering the cockpit) the innovation has been proven to be ineffective with that Antron fire pic.

If that's the case, why would Don be so opposed to removing the ineffective safety device? I can see how one might reason that there must be some sort of performance advantage. I guess we would need an answer to the question what is safer about having the shroud if not fire protection? If there is no answer to that question then there's no reason to have a shroud in the first place, therefore why not clear up any misconceptions about a performance advantage and dis-allow it.

Maybe the safety innovation has nothing to do with fire, and my whole understanding of the story is garbage. In which case there's more to the story that I really can't form an opinion about. Maybe removing the shroud at this point puts the Schumacher teams at a dis-advantage, then it's continued use would be up to the Schumacher team.

I can also see how this whole experience would make the NHRA reluctant to allow any innovation in the future. There's probably some curve somewhere describing the benefit / cost ratio when describing innovation in today's fuel cars. I would guess that over the years the benefit / cost ratio has decreased significantly. Therefore it becomes more difficult to allow innovation when considering how teams are struggling today just to make a pass.

And there has been innovation over the years... the injectors are higher, different shapes, the front wings are mono now, the spill plates have those wierd shapes cut into them, the set back blower.. and probably a **** load of internal stuff I can't even see.

NHRA has a tough job keeping everyone happy, I wouldn't want to do it. And maybe it was a bit un-professional to allow something based on someones word (so the story says). Maybe a trial period or something. Having an engineering background, I would think that having the shroud would result in cleaner air flow to the injector, maybe rear wing- which would be an advantage wouldn't it? If you allow that, I bet the engineers would come up with some pretty wild fins and shapes to get more air to the injector, while not actually touching the injector.

 

[TooTall999]

Don Schumacher resigns

http://competitionplus.com/drag-racing/news/19385-force-johnson-respond-to-schumacher-charges