NHRA tears down PS Team....... (1 Viewer)

[troy boy]

I don’t have a dog in the fight or know that much about this, but don’t the winners get torn down and checked after every race for motor size? Or do they just do that pump volume check I’ve seen and can this be inaccurate or beat so that pulling the head is really the only way to know?
Also shouldn’t NHRA be supplying the fuel if they are worried that it could be tampered with? I can see them charging the teams for the fuel but letting someone else buy the fuel and supply it seams wrong.

 

[Bob]

Unless I misunderstood I don’t think Chris pays for everyone’s fuel.

They are fueled in the lanes with VP racing fuel, paid for by Chris. This helps to guarantee that the fuel can't be juiced by anyone in the pits.

"McGaha, admittedly suspicious of Elite since 2015 regarding fuel, has since the Atlanta race in May footed the bill for fuel for the entire Pro Stock class. So he has provided free fuel, at about $1,000 per weekend, which benefits Elite (and all other Pro Stock teams)."
http://competitionplus.com/drag-rac...or-to-close-mcgaha-protest-but-emotions-flare

 

[twostep]

Some interesting tech from Chris McGaha.
https://www.hotrod.com/articles/secrets-dark-places-nhra-pro-stock-according-chris-mcgaha/

 

[Randy]

NHRA tech in the sportsman pits has just about disappeared in the last few years. It's the honor system from what I've been told. Used to be they came around and pumped a random cylinder checking for cubic inches, etc. From all my currently racing TAD, TAFC pals, they haven't been pumped in years.

 

[Sean D, shondoo]

I wrote that the cost discourages frivolous protests. If the $2,000 he paid to file the protests is equivalent to $2 or $3 to most of us, the Elite team could have donated their reward for passing the inspection to a charity. Instead, they gloated. Erica jumping up and down and cheering behind the starting line when Chris went red wasn't exactly a classy display either. I like her and have defended her against some of the hateful crap I've seen online over the years.

Also, it looks like you missed the fact that Chris pays for the fuel for all of the Pro Stock drivers that are now fueled in the staging lanes...because of what he was told a few years ago. That's around $1,000 per event. Sorry, but I can't fault an independent driver for spending his own money to try to keep the class honest. The history of Pro Stock is not clean. Some of it is pretty dirty.

To be clear, what I said was in regard to the amount being a joke, not what you said. And make no mistake, that amount to tear down an NHRA Pro Stock car is an absolute joke. These guys give prize money back to the sanctioning body, field multiple cars, and apparently pay for everybody else's fuel just to keep the class alive. A thousand bucks is NOTHING.

As for your statement about what I "missed" regarding the fuel situation, you need to clarify. First of all, what does that have to do with the topic at hand? And secondly, if I'm in the McGaha camp, I would wonder why the hell I'm having to supply fuel to an entire class to ensure legality of said fuel. Add that to the list of jokes.

I have nothing against the McGaha camp for the protest at all. I encourage a system, that needs to be in place, to operate as it's written. But the amount needs to be revisited to reflect the current climate.

I don’t have a dog in the fight or know that much about this, but don’t the winners get torn down and checked after every race for motor size? Or do they just do that pump volume check I’ve seen and can this be inaccurate or beat so that pulling the head is really the only way to know?
Also shouldn’t NHRA be supplying the fuel if they are worried that it could be tampered with? I can see them charging the teams for the fuel but letting someone else buy the fuel and supply it seams wrong.

Ferri has stated over on the 'Bullet that this is absolutely not happening like it has in the past, or should be happening now. As a matter of fact, he said that McGaha only did what NHRA should already be doing on a regular basis but isn't. I think he might know.......

Sean D

 

[Nick Name]

although she IS one of the top drivers ever to drive a Pro Stock car. She worked hard to get there but I really, as a Christian myself absolutely hate the
"All the glory to God" crap when people are playing with million dollar toys that only a few ever do and people are starving and all the violence on earth is going on. God Bless you all and these are just
my thoughts and anyone who disagrees has every right and I have no ill feelings toward them. Bob Kirkbride

Some people just don't get the "All the glory to God" part, and some of us do.

 

[SoCal Racer]

Protests have been around a long time and McGaha handled it the way he should have. There's no shame in using the mechanism NHRA has put in place to keep things on the up-and-up. You have to admit that Elite, who has been qualifying mid-pack most of the season, could draw some suspicion when they are suddenly number 1 & 3. Chris also said he did it before the Countdown, implying he didn't want to make a big deal out of it once the points actually count. I thought he was mature and respectful about it. Richard Freeman took the low road, and Erica took it personal. Jeg - the most seasoned racer of them all - took it in stride with a, "hey, that's racing" attitude.

 

[none]

I would like to think I would handle that situation in a professional manner but more than likely, I would not. I believe Richard took it personally because it was his integrity being called into question. I find it entertaining that there are some that see a difference between saying "he is cheating" and filing a protest requesting a tear down.

 

[DrRocket]

Wait a minute. Just hold on here.

I constantly read posts complaining that drivers have become too "corporate." Too "squeeky clean." Too "polite." Too "boring." "There aren't any in-your-face rivalries any more" is another popular refrain around here.

I'd think that this sort of thing is exactly the stuff you guys are looking for! Name calling! Accusations! Contention!

I was watching this unfold on the show, and thought "Wow! This should make the Maters happy! Just what they were wanting!"

Then I read this thread......

Honestly, sometimes I just can't figure you guys out.

 

[vegasnitro]

NHRA tech in the sportsman pits has just about disappeared in the last few years. It's the honor system from what I've been told. Used to be they came around and pumped a random cylinder checking for cubic inches, etc. From all my currently racing TAD, TAFC pals, they haven't been pumped in years.

Weigh the car, check the fuel and the temp of the fuel is about all they do from what I have seen. And they usually only do that after the run at the top end. I have only recently found out that TAD is kind of a pounds per cubic inch formula (apparently had my head under a rock) ... If they are not pumping cars, how do they know what the car is supposed to weigh, besides you telling them displacement of the motor? So, I totally agree with your honor system statement.

EDIT: To be clear, I am not accusing anybody of cheating. I just thought the lax tech process was interesting after having talked with a few guys in the pits. I am a tech inspector for other types of racing, so the procedural stuff is very interesting to me.

 

[Bob]

To be clear, what I said was in regard to the amount being a joke, not what you said. And make no mistake, that amount to tear down an NHRA Pro Stock car is an absolute joke. These guys give prize money back to the sanctioning body, field multiple cars, and apparently pay for everybody else's fuel just to keep the class alive. A thousand bucks is NOTHING.

As for your statement about what I "missed" regarding the fuel situation, you need to clarify. First of all, what does that have to do with the topic at hand? And secondly, if I'm in the McGaha camp, I would wonder why the hell I'm having to supply fuel to an entire class to ensure legality of said fuel. Add that to the list of jokes.

I have nothing against the McGaha camp for the protest at all. I encourage a system, that needs to be in place, to operate as it's written. But the amount needs to be revisited to reflect the current climate.

Sean, Chris is an independent racer, running his program in-house, not a member of the billionaire's club, and is not fielding multiple cars. I have to think that a thousand bucks is not "NOTHING" to him. You think the cost to file a protest should be more? How much more? And should the cost increase be applied to all classes racing at national events? What his paying for the fuel for everyone in the class has to do with the topic at hand is, as an independent racer who doesn't have the money to burn that others in the class have, spending his own money to help keep the class honest is not something trivial. Search for what he was told by a multiple car team owner in 2015 and you might understand why he is footing the fuel bill for everyone racing in the class.

 

[stitcherbob]

I find it hard to care about any of this.... since NHRA wants "Pro Camaro", they can keep it and all that comes from it.

 

[ironpony]

Sean, Chris is an independent racer, running his program in-house, not a member of the billionaire's club, and is not fielding multiple cars. I have to think that a thousand bucks is not "NOTHING" to him. You think the cost to file a protest should be more? How much more? And should the cost increase be applied to all classes racing at national events? What his paying for the fuel for everyone in the class has to do with the topic at hand is, as an independent racer who doesn't have the money to burn that others in the class have, spending his own money to help keep the class honest is not something trivial. Search for what he was told by a multiple car team owner in 2015 and you might understand why he is footing the fuel bill for everyone racing in the class.

Lets see, McGaha has/had a full GM program and a full MOPAR program the same time, he is at every race and is the only real competitive independent driver.
So if he doesn't have a PILE of cash, how does he do it??
Oh thats right Dad owns the company that does 50 mil. a year, theres the sponsor money.

 

[Sean D, shondoo]

Sean, Chris is an independent racer, running his program in-house, not a member of the billionaire's club, and is not fielding multiple cars. I have to think that a thousand bucks is not "NOTHING" to him. You think the cost to file a protest should be more? How much more? And should the cost increase be applied to all classes racing at national events? What his paying for the fuel for everyone in the class has to do with the topic at hand is, as an independent racer who doesn't have the money to burn that others in the class have, spending his own money to help keep the class honest is not something trivial. Search for what he was told by a multiple car team owner in 2015 and you might understand why he is footing the fuel bill for everyone racing in the class.

C'mon, Bob......... Read Ken's post above. These guys aren't running Pro Stock on a shoestring, especially if they're paying for everybody else's fuel, you can believe that.

Yes, I absolutely believe the price to protest needs to be higher. That price needs to be substantial enough, no matter what the class, to sting if you're wrong.

As for your last statement, I say again; first, why am I paying to ensure the legality of the fuel used by my competitors? That has to be about the dumbest thing I've heard in all the Pro Stock drama. There's absolutely no excuse for procedures not already being in place by the NHRA to do that. If there are procedures in place and they choose to do this anyway, then that's on them and not a point of leverage. And I'm fully aware of the issue that happened in 2015, but riddle me this; why in the world would ANYBODY blatantly tell a competitor in the same class that they're cheating, much less how? All that was, as far as I'm concerned was a mind game, and they fell for it.

Sean D

 

[NITRO JUNKIE]

Amanda: What brought about the protest?
Chris: Well back in 2015; Richard told me, point blank, that they're running illegal fuel.

What am I missing? What does illegal fuel have to do with pulling the heads?

It would be impossible to run illegal fuel because every car has to go Thur tech before every run

 

[Frank]

C'mon, Bob......... Read Ken's post above. These guys aren't running Pro Stock on a shoestring, especially if they're paying for everybody else's fuel, you can believe that.

Yes, I absolutely believe the price to protest needs to be higher. That price needs to be substantial enough, no matter what the class, to sting if you're wrong.

As for your last statement, I say again; first, why am I paying to ensure the legality of the fuel used by my competitors? That has to be about the dumbest thing I've heard in all the Pro Stock drama. There's absolutely no excuse for procedures not already being in place by the NHRA to do that. If there are procedures in place and they choose to do this anyway, then that's on them and not a point of leverage. And I'm fully aware of the issue that happened in 2015, but riddle me this; why in the world would ANYBODY blatantly tell a competitor in the same class that they're cheating, much less how? All that was, as far as I'm concerned was a mind game, and they fell for it.

Sean D

I think the price of $1000 is fair. I feel if you raise it up, then you need to raise the penalties as well if a team is found guilty and I'm not sure that's a road we want to go down. Maybe the better approach would be to limit how many total protests a team can file during a season and/or against a specific team?

I agree with you NHRA should have the procedures in place to ensure everyone is using the same fuel, or the fuel is being teched in the staging lanes. To answer your question about admitting to cheating to another competitor, maybe the person admitted it without knowing it? Wasn't 2015 the year the required fuel for Pro Stock and Comp Eliminator was switched from VP to Sonoco or vice versa? One guy would fail fuel tech after a run and the next guy would pass even though they bought fuel from the track at the same time. I remember the Comp message boards going crazy about how bad the new fuel was. Pro Stock guys were up in arms about it as well. I think there were a handful of national events where fuel check after a run was actually waived because of all the issues. Maybe Freeman or someone from Elite was talking casually to McGaha in the lanes or the pits and as they were discussing how bad the new fuel is, said something along the lines of, "yeah we've been adding two cups of water to our fuel tank to try and dilute this new junk fuel to help ensure we pass tech after each run." Or, "we've been doing blah blah blah once we get the fuel to try and make it like the old stuff."

I bring this up because something sort of similar happened to me. In my boxing days way back when, I remember telling one of my sparring partners that I forgot to take my Zyrtec D pill before our workout and how my eyes were puffy and my nose was constantly plugged making it real hard to breath and spar (It was during the height of allergy season and I have pretty bad allergies in the spring/early summer). He turned to me and said, "I'm pretty sure the stuff in your Zyrtec D pill is a banned substance so if you turn pro, you could or would fail a PED test after the fight if you use it." I had no idea. I did some research and sure enough he was right. I never turned pro so it never became an issue, but I guess what I'm saying is, sometimes competitors admit to doing something illegal and they don't even realize it.

 

[SoCal Racer]

Three pages of posts so far.... this protest/ teardown is about the most exciting thing to happen in Pro Stock this season!

 

[Nunz]

How the heck did it become Chris's responsibility to buy everyone's fuel to keep everyone honest? Whether or not he can afford it isn't the question, it seems absurd to me.

 

[Randy]

It would be impossible to run illegal fuel because every car has to go Thur tech before every run

LOL. Sam, you and I need to have lunch together some day. Let's just say racers are a very creative bunch.

 

[Cliff]

LOL. Sam, you and I need to have lunch together some day. Let's just say racers are a very creative bunch.

Yeah, like Billy Glidden running nitrous in a Pro Stock car back when. They plumbled thru a whole bunch of places & NHRA never picked up on it. Had a spray that went to the carbs. Story I heard was that Billy told NHRA what they did, just to prove to NHRA that it could be done.

So..... would a 500" motor on, say, 3 stages of nitrous be able to run the same as 820 CI mountain motor? Just thinkin' out loud.... heh heh