NHRA = Science (1 Viewer)

[farmje]

Here is something that has been on my mind since a conversation that my wife and I had regarding the recent events surrounding the death of Scott Kalitta.

The National Hot Rod Association has always centered around racing. Creating the greatest show on the planet, with the greatest people on the planet.

But somewhere along the way, these cars have gotten so fast, that instead of it being about "racing" it's about science. Creating the fastest combination, using the right amount of weight/balance differential, clutch setup, blower drive, etc. (I probably sound retarded, because I don't know what all goes into a pass, but hopefully you get the point.) Now, we are now talking about engineering related to these cars to make them safer.

The National Hot Rod Association should be more like the National Aeronautics and Space Administration.

When you think about the launch of a space shuttle, you have engineers analyzing EVERY aspect of the launch. They not only talk about what went wrong, but they talk about every little thing that could go wrong. And then they spend hours making sure that if that thing that could go wrong does, they know how to fix it. They talk about it. They analyze it. They over-analyze it. And they make sure that if something did happen, it would be fixed.

This is NOT a bash on the NHRA thread. But I believe that the NHRA needs to invest the money (not the teams who lose drivers), but the NHRA themselves needs to invest money in engineering in making sure that if something does go wrong, we can fix it.

We shouldn't have lost Eric to figure out the padding around the drivers head needed to be thicker.

We shouldn't have lost Scott to figure out that many other things need to be changed.

There needs to be people analyzing the runs to talk about what "could" go wrong -- and then fix it before it does.

I am so glad that Ford has the blue box program. I know that many other teams analyze as well...but I would bet if we spent the kind of money that NASA does, we wouldn't have as many issues with fatalities as we have here lately.

Anybody with me?

 

[Sean D, shondoo]

Anybody with me?

Yeah, I was with you, right up to the point you said something about spending the kind of money NASA does......

The concept is great, Jeremy, but the resources simply aren't there. The recent string of tragedies has brought about some great forward progress, but unfortunately, there will always be a percentage of that progress made as a result of a tragedy because you just can't plan for everything.

Sean D

 

[n/a]

The National Hot Rod Association has always centered around racing. Creating the greatest show on the planet, with the greatest people on the planet. But somewhere along the way, these cars have gotten so fast, that instead of it being about "racing" it's about science. Creating the fastest combination, using the right amount of weight/balance differential, clutch setup, blower drive, etc. (I probably sound retarded, because I don't know what all goes into a pass, but hopefully you get the point.) Now, we are now talking about engineering related to these cars to make them safer.

The National Hot Rod Association should be more like the National Aeronautics and Space Administration. When you think about the launch of a space shuttle, you have engineers analyzing EVERY aspect of the launch. They not only talk about what went wrong, but they talk about every little thing that could go wrong. And then they spend hours making sure that if that thing that could go wrong does, they know how to fix it. They talk about it. They analyze it. They over-analyze it. And they make sure that if something did happen, it would be fixed.

We shouldn't have lost Eric to figure out the padding around the drivers head needed to be thicker.

We shouldn't have lost Scott to figure out that many other things need to be changed.

There needs to be people analyzing the runs to talk about what "could" go wrong -- and then fix it before it does.

Anybody with me?

I agree with you... but since the NASA resources ($$) aren't there to engineer / re-engineer every aspect of these vehicles going 330mph on 30 & 40 year old race tracks, then the answer is to regulate the cars performance. A buddy and I were talking the other day, that there has always been the chance that Top Fuel & Funny Cars were going to catch fire when they pushed out a head gasket or blew an engine up, but in recent times they don't do that... Now It's VIOLENT... they EXPLODE like a bomb!!

These cars used to make 2,500 hp, now they are "estimated" to be closer to 8,000! Everything is being pushed way beyond the limits of use... whether it's the metalurgy of the vehicle &/or mechanics; or the tires; or the racetracks themselves... you can't control it all any longer.

NASCAR has done it with the restrictor plates on the big tracks to slow down the cars, and it has worked. The drivers may not like it, cause it's tightened up the cars, but it has improved "the Show".... and the spectators don't realize the 20 or 30 mph decress in speed. They are still Fast!

IMO - When it comes right down to it, there isn't anything thats going to change for the better of the sport, because All involved in this sport have their own reasons not to want to change.

Larry

 

[jpee]

Can I answer this comment with a question, and not sound unsympathetic..

My heart goes out to Scotts family... & I think I am qualified to say "I Know how Connie feels" I too lost my 22 yr old son in a MV accident..

But can anyone here tell me what type of auto racing has not had a fatality in the last few yrs.. weather it be Drags, Stock, Sprint, Indy, F1, etc...

Sure I'd love to see it made 100% safe at ANY cost, but is it "Realistic" to think that it can be done even if $$ was NO OBJECT!?

When a car is going at 300 mph can someone give me a list of things that would "GUARANTEE" the drivers safety under ANY circumstances?

What if the driver became unconscious for some reason.. do we have the crew with remote controls to stop the car, what if it puts a rod out the block and puts oil under its own tires.. what would be the correct safety items needed...

We need soft side walls, we need protection if it runs straight off the track.. we have to be able to stop it with the driver unconsious..Yup 500' of sand, a catch fence, or maybe a cable to catch it like on aircraft carriers..

I was at the track, and won't even try to tell you all the suggestions made by armchair racers...

What protection do we do if we have an accident like the Pro Stock who crossed in front of the car in the other lane.. Thank God both drivers were OK.. but had that been FC and they were at 240 mph ... ? What kind of side protection should they have?

IMO the easiest thing to do is restrict the speeds..weather it be via gears, Rev limiters, smaller CI engines. less over drive for the blower, smaller fuel pumps etc... etc.. its a lot easier to restrict the speed, that to try and build in a FOOLPROOF car that will protect the driver no matter what happens..

In a post above NASA was mentioned.. well they didn't do to well in the only 2 incidents that ever happened to the shuttle, one on take off, and one on the return, in both cases the entire crew was lost...so I guess with unlimited funds SH** still happens..in accidents NASA is 0 for 2 !

As long as there is racing of any type SH** will happen, and no one can build a car that will guarantee the driver will live under any circumstances..

God Bless Scott, and the rest of the racers who gave their life's in a sport that we all enjoy and love...

 

[Nitrohaulic]

It's kinda like if you tried to do what would have been necessary to prevent 9/11 from happening if 9/11 hadn't happened yet. You'd have been written off as a nut case, as some were.

When did shoes start coming off in airports? Because, as one comedian noted, of that Wiley Coyote looking m***** f***** with the diabolical shoe bomb that required lighting with a match!

Someone gets a magic bullet tomorrow, they'll be designing and mandating titanium magic bullet shields.

 

[sammi]

The maddening thing and the wonderful thing about NAPCAR is how they have restrained modern technology and found away to have F1-like budgets. NHRA needs to follow NAPCAR's matra after the death of Dale Sr. Don't kill off your stars-use the rules to foster close racing.

Does it seem odd that it is gettting rarer to watch an NHRA national event with fairly even lanes?

Mark

 

[farmje]

Yeah, I was with you, right up to the point you said something about spending the kind of money NASA does......

The concept is great, Jeremy, but the resources simply aren't there. The recent string of tragedies has brought about some great forward progress, but unfortunately, there will always be a percentage of that progress made as a result of a tragedy because you just can't plan for everything.

Sean D

The resources aren't there right now...but more money needs to be allocated there, in my opinion.

To address what a few have said on this post -- you can't plan for everything...I will give you that. You can't tell me in the worst case scenario that someone way smarter than me could have thought through someone speeding off the end of a racetrack, and what to do about it?

I am saying that if people start thinking about what could happen, it might prevent some things from happening.

There is never a fail-safe plan. But I think that there could be better planning in that arena, and more funding allocated to it.

 

[farmje]

In a post above NASA was mentioned.. well they didn't do to well in the only 2 incidents that ever happened to the shuttle, one on take off, and one on the return, in both cases the entire crew was lost...so I guess with unlimited funds SH** still happens..in accidents NASA is 0 for 2 !

As long as there is racing of any type SH** will happen, and no one can build a car that will guarantee the driver will live under any circumstances..

God Bless Scott, and the rest of the racers who gave their life's in a sport that we all enjoy and love...

John,

NASA is the most dangerous of any program/sport that we have. (It's not really a sport, but since I mentioned it and you did too...) We have people going up into space, and we have as you stated, had two accidents. Of those two accidents, things have been learned from it, and changes have been implemented. But, many other possible problems have been curbed because of the endless nitpicking and analyzing of engineers on what could happen. Watch NASA TV after a takeoff, and read the blogs. It's amazing what those people go through to ensure that the crew will return home safely.

Somewhere along the line, because these cars are so fast, these scenarios must be gone through and played out.

I'll take NASA's odds any day of the week. Of all the people in the space program, and the high risk that they run in going thousands of miles above the earth with absolutely NO room for error, and having 2 accidents where life was lost -- I'll take those for sure.

 

[hellfirejim]

I know it always comes down to money and how NHRA doesn't have the funds to do this but this thought comes to mind. How does the salary of the top offical compare to what the world nitro champions collect at the end of the year???

I think it is more about priorities than money.

 

[wldchld512]

F1 has not had a fatality since Ayrton Senna in 1994. That whole weekend got everyones attention and the sanctioning body decided that it was time to improve safety and implemented many changes from car design, tires etc. and it worked.

 

[Bobby]

NASCAR had 4 deaths in a year , last with Dale, then got serious about all the safety measures that were already available to them.
They haven't lost a driver since.

There hasn't been a fatality in an indycar race since 1999. They lost one in testing and one in practice, but one of those was in late october (why they were running on a cold october day in indiana I can't tell you) and one was a driver who was so far in over his head the press guys were telling him it was going to happen if he didn't quit.


Some things are avoidable and some aren't. Each and every one of us can accept the unavoidable.
The discussion here is was this avoidable?