NHRA Majors!
- Thread starter jimbo
- Start date
vegasnitro
Nitro Member
I think Martin was being ironic.
anything that replaces the countdown is great.
I generally like the older races being dubbed majors so that leaves out Charlotte, Vegas and Norwalk. ( I think Bader could promote a major even better than Smith)
E town
Gators
Indy
Pomona should be but with it starting and ending the season that is already big enough.
I would go with Denver or a Texas race just for geography sake. I suppose we could even put Vegas back in the mix then.
Make them X 1.5 points then make Indy double points.
While having a 32 car field would be nice the logistics of space for 64 rigs (16 x 4 classes plus their mechanise & hospitality units). Plus the extra runs in qualifying and eliminations would blow the schedule apart, thats 128 more qualifyings runs alone.
I generally like the older races being dubbed majors so that leaves out Charlotte, Vegas and Norwalk. ( I think Bader could promote a major even better than Smith)
E town
Gators
Indy
Pomona should be but with it starting and ending the season that is already big enough.
I would go with Denver or a Texas race just for geography sake. I suppose we could even put Vegas back in the mix then.
Make them X 1.5 points then make Indy double points.
While having a 32 car field would be nice the logistics of space for 64 rigs (16 x 4 classes plus their mechanise & hospitality units). Plus the extra runs in qualifying and eliminations would blow the schedule apart, thats 128 more qualifyings runs alone.
yoda
Nitro Member
Cynical is more like it... My suggestion was to eradicate the need to have to be a millionaire on the Pro touring circuit by ELIMINATING all the races other than the 4 or 5 "majors".
Let all the tracks book in the shows all over the country, but the only Championship points races would be at G-ville, E-Town, Indy and Pomona- NO other "National" events... If it takes you a million bucks to race at the pro level, its because you're running around the country (world, maybe?), racing match races and 8/16/32 car shows almost every weekend.
Drags racing would be based around tracks booking in shows around what season works for them, not on how "the tour" has to slot them into the schedule. Summer in Seattle, springtime in Maple Grove, winter in Florida- git in where ya fit in...
5 teams that make up every single field, and the same two or three teams making up everything from round 2 on? Naw- I'm tired of it... Take away the carrot and the nag will have nothing to chase. Are you REALLY the baddest mofo out there? Come prove it at one of the "MAJORS"- you can be the bad azz on the block and get bigger booking fees when you drag your junk back home or be brave and book yourself on a few out of town match races. Maybe see how well you can do when Bruton has a 32 car show in Charlotte or Cheap Charlie has 16 nitro cars come out for a Saturday night knifefight on a locally prepped track....
Safety Safari can get back to making sure the locals know what it takes to build and race a SAFE race car at the local track, instead of dishonoring the name and relagating the S.S. to being nothing more than a well dressed sanitation & street sweeping crew with an unlimited tank of rubber cement in a spray tank...
Damn- even the MM over-prepped before the nitro cars...
There were several AHRA tracks but there was also Dallas International NHRA, Amarillo originally NHRA, Tulsa was NHRA and also the first world finals track, Sand Valley in Okla City NHRA and owned by Jimmy Nix, Witchia Ks NHRA. There was an NHRA track in La., and a couple more in Texas. Need I go on?
my friends call me Zappy
Nitro Member
FC138fan
Nitro Member
Do cars still run for points? Theres only like 4 cars that have a shot at the title, all owned by Schumacher or Shiek. Kalitta and the Lucas' are still doing it too so they're hanging in as the underdog. The rest really have no shot and are doing it because they love to race-
And to promote their sponsor, which is probably the single most important driving force for this sport. Which to me it makes sense to run the full schedule as they are now, as it promotes these sponsors, keeps the fans happy, and keeps the racers happy.
Today you accumulate points at all races, which to me is something that's done on the side... At Brainerd, I'm not counting points, or interested in the points at all, I'm there to watch the race, independent of the points. I think that's probably common among fans at all tracks. So if you eliminated the points from the majority of the races, fans probably wouldn't care.
Maybe these big MAJOR races should be the only events where points are handed out. Have 5 events per year that give out points, call em the Winternationals, Springnationals, Summernationals, and Fall Nationals... and the US Nationals. Hold them at the best tracks at the best locations, independent of the history of the track (Englishtown - really? with all the controversy about the short shutdown and all>)
Think about it, Luigi Novelli, The Greek, Bode, Head, many others... they go to certain races that financially makes sense for them, not because of points. Meaning that if Brainerd say was not a points race, Novelli, Greek, Bode, Head all of them would probably still show up, so I don't think counts would suffer all that much. On the other hand, maybe more would show up at these MAJOR events in that now they have a shot at a title.
Just my thoughts
And to promote their sponsor, which is probably the single most important driving force for this sport. Which to me it makes sense to run the full schedule as they are now, as it promotes these sponsors, keeps the fans happy, and keeps the racers happy.
Today you accumulate points at all races, which to me is something that's done on the side... At Brainerd, I'm not counting points, or interested in the points at all, I'm there to watch the race, independent of the points. I think that's probably common among fans at all tracks. So if you eliminated the points from the majority of the races, fans probably wouldn't care.
Maybe these big MAJOR races should be the only events where points are handed out. Have 5 events per year that give out points, call em the Winternationals, Springnationals, Summernationals, and Fall Nationals... and the US Nationals. Hold them at the best tracks at the best locations, independent of the history of the track (Englishtown - really? with all the controversy about the short shutdown and all>)
Think about it, Luigi Novelli, The Greek, Bode, Head, many others... they go to certain races that financially makes sense for them, not because of points. Meaning that if Brainerd say was not a points race, Novelli, Greek, Bode, Head all of them would probably still show up, so I don't think counts would suffer all that much. On the other hand, maybe more would show up at these MAJOR events in that now they have a shot at a title.
Just my thoughts
IMO The horse racing structure provides an example of where you would try to construct something in drag racing. What they have is the Triple Crown(Kentucky Derby, Preakness, Belmont Stakes) in addition to that they have regional stakes races to feed the major races (i.e. Santa Anita Derby, Hollywood Park Derby, Louisana Derby, Arlington Stakes, etc) so its easy to shape something in drag racing to let the small budget teams feel that can stand a chance of winning a major event. Which has been proven in the horse racing model.
vegasnitro
Nitro Member
The Kentucky Derby is restricted to 20 horses who have the most graded earnings. Pretty much without exception, every horse in the Derby has won a graded stakes race.
You would still have to have a points system of sorts (The Derby uses dollars) to determine which cars would get to run at Indy (assuming Indy is the Derby in the analogy). Which is better, a race restricted to only the "top" 16 cars in each eliminator, or the everyone show up and the quickest 16 get in?
I can say without question I liked Indy when we all went with as many bullets as we could put together and they all were set on kill for every pass.
If you qualified you scraped up all your parts and all of your friends parts in an effort to gather up enough to get thru eliminations. If you came home with anything left you didn't try hard enough.
Win or qualify well at Indy and you got booking and help from equipment manufacturers that enabled you to take your program to the next level.
Sometimes qualifying well at Indy meant the difference between racing and staying home. It was that big of a deal. Nothing bigger.
If you qualified you scraped up all your parts and all of your friends parts in an effort to gather up enough to get thru eliminations. If you came home with anything left you didn't try hard enough.
Win or qualify well at Indy and you got booking and help from equipment manufacturers that enabled you to take your program to the next level.
Sometimes qualifying well at Indy meant the difference between racing and staying home. It was that big of a deal. Nothing bigger.
Cymon Sez
Nitro Member
This might sound kinda weird but, I have raced BMX my whole life starting back in the late 70's early 80's until mid 00's. I watched the ABA(sanctioning body) absolutely kill the local market by increasing the number of nationals(big races)
We use to have a busy local market that included a lot of the big name factory riders and pro's with motos(classes) that were always full and sometimes had multiple motos for the same class. This gave you the opportunity to match yourself up against a factory rider.
I have since gotten my son into the sport and found that they can barely muster twenty motos on a sunday that use to get close to 100. Not only that but the national schedule has gotten so busy your racing a national almost every weekend between the ABA and NBL(another sanctioning body) that these factory riders and pro have no time to race/practice with the local market any longer unless they skip a national race.
Kinda the same thing here drop the number of races and bring them back to the local market with grude matches.
We use to have a busy local market that included a lot of the big name factory riders and pro's with motos(classes) that were always full and sometimes had multiple motos for the same class. This gave you the opportunity to match yourself up against a factory rider.
I have since gotten my son into the sport and found that they can barely muster twenty motos on a sunday that use to get close to 100. Not only that but the national schedule has gotten so busy your racing a national almost every weekend between the ABA and NBL(another sanctioning body) that these factory riders and pro have no time to race/practice with the local market any longer unless they skip a national race.
Kinda the same thing here drop the number of races and bring them back to the local market with grude matches.
vegasnitro
Nitro Member
The problem with cutting back the number of National Events and expecting racers to run either match races or divisionals is MONEY.
Tracks can't afford to book in 4 top fuelers or funny cars now. Teams can't afford to take their cars off the trailer for what the tracks would be able to pay. There is no way a "local" track would be able to afford to allow 8 or 10 nitro cars to show up and have open qualifying and pay round money. Anyone who thinks teams or tracks can make money match racing is still living in 1977. Match racing has gone the way of the dodo bird ...
When was the last time anyone here went to a Divisional as a spectator? I would guess you didn't have trouble finding a seat and there was no line at the hot dog stand either. Adding nitro cars into the mix might get some folks to show up, but it would be attended no where near the levels of the current national events, and it would also severely limit a track's ability to make money. Tracks make their money at Divisionals off the back gate, you throw 2 nitro eliminators into that mix and the track loses money.
And if you owned a Nitro team, how would you explain that to your sponsors??? Could you imagine John Force going to Castrol and saying, remember last year when we had 23 Nationally televised races and big events with 10s of thousands of spectators at each one ... well next year we are only going to have 4. By the way I need the same amount of money because I have to compete in a bunch of local races to "qualify" for the 4 races. Castrol would tell him to go pound sand ...
Tracks can't afford to book in 4 top fuelers or funny cars now. Teams can't afford to take their cars off the trailer for what the tracks would be able to pay. There is no way a "local" track would be able to afford to allow 8 or 10 nitro cars to show up and have open qualifying and pay round money. Anyone who thinks teams or tracks can make money match racing is still living in 1977. Match racing has gone the way of the dodo bird ...
When was the last time anyone here went to a Divisional as a spectator? I would guess you didn't have trouble finding a seat and there was no line at the hot dog stand either. Adding nitro cars into the mix might get some folks to show up, but it would be attended no where near the levels of the current national events, and it would also severely limit a track's ability to make money. Tracks make their money at Divisionals off the back gate, you throw 2 nitro eliminators into that mix and the track loses money.
And if you owned a Nitro team, how would you explain that to your sponsors??? Could you imagine John Force going to Castrol and saying, remember last year when we had 23 Nationally televised races and big events with 10s of thousands of spectators at each one ... well next year we are only going to have 4. By the way I need the same amount of money because I have to compete in a bunch of local races to "qualify" for the 4 races. Castrol would tell him to go pound sand ...
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jimbo
Nitro Member
- Thread starter
- #34
A lot of thought have gone into the above thread by many folks, some with own thoughts on how NHRA should conduct their race schedule. Most all name the same races as being "major" and some have brought up valid points as well. A few that I did not think about - Etown short track, but probably still manageble. As to not having one of Bruton's tracks, why not have Bristol replace Etown? Was it not the first Springnationals? Also good idea about having the 4-5 major races in the different regions of the country. Some hard choices to keep at 4 races, if 5 my picks wood be Pomona, Gainesville, Etown, Bristol and Indy. The countdown stays the same (sorry) enough hype there already.
I was not advocating taking away anyones races, just somehow putting more importance on a few races and hopefully generating more prestige and more money the winners and other competitors.
Thanks for your thoughts!
I was not advocating taking away anyones races, just somehow putting more importance on a few races and hopefully generating more prestige and more money the winners and other competitors.
Thanks for your thoughts!
yoda
Nitro Member
Chris: Why do you think teams can't take the cars off the trailer for what they might make match racing, other than the teams themselves have become so bloated with all the aspects OTHER than racing that seem to involve being a modern touring team?
Looking at a team like Bode or Diehl, that run the same class and are within a a tenth or two of the teams with the mobile operations center, the hospitality truck and the 20-man crew (all of which ARE NOT a requirement to go nitro racing, last I heard). If you are required to have all that stuff to make your sponsors happy, than it seems that you will be relegated to running only the national events, no matter how many there are. On the other side of the coin, a well advertised, $30-a-head nitro show with 8 or more cars that only came because they could afford the tow and the car could have just been gathering dust that weekend could, at the right tracks, be a moneymaker for both the track (concessions and merch percentage) and the teams that come to race-especially if they don't come out to rotate the earth and spew parts with every pass.
Racing became expensive from the day someone had to pay money to swap a different motor into their jalopy to be the fast guy in town. Racing became PORNOGRAPHICALLY expensive when the need to stroke a few guys egos for more, more, more became the accepted norm.
I may be a throwback to the 70's- proudly so- because I remember that the sport was fun then, and for "Everyman"- as we have discussed on so many past boards, the sport is so "niche" that it will never find it's way into the mainstream of public acceptance. Maybe its time that teams STOP spending like they are trying to become the next NBA/NFL/F1, and get back to what made the sport popular during it's high water mark.
Looking at a team like Bode or Diehl, that run the same class and are within a a tenth or two of the teams with the mobile operations center, the hospitality truck and the 20-man crew (all of which ARE NOT a requirement to go nitro racing, last I heard). If you are required to have all that stuff to make your sponsors happy, than it seems that you will be relegated to running only the national events, no matter how many there are. On the other side of the coin, a well advertised, $30-a-head nitro show with 8 or more cars that only came because they could afford the tow and the car could have just been gathering dust that weekend could, at the right tracks, be a moneymaker for both the track (concessions and merch percentage) and the teams that come to race-especially if they don't come out to rotate the earth and spew parts with every pass.
Racing became expensive from the day someone had to pay money to swap a different motor into their jalopy to be the fast guy in town. Racing became PORNOGRAPHICALLY expensive when the need to stroke a few guys egos for more, more, more became the accepted norm.
I may be a throwback to the 70's- proudly so- because I remember that the sport was fun then, and for "Everyman"- as we have discussed on so many past boards, the sport is so "niche" that it will never find it's way into the mainstream of public acceptance. Maybe its time that teams STOP spending like they are trying to become the next NBA/NFL/F1, and get back to what made the sport popular during it's high water mark.
Chris,
Do the Divisional Directors have any clout in getting a regional sponsor(i.e Bank of America, Home Depot, Lowes, Mathis Brothers, Suit Warehouse, etc) to put money into maybe one or two big races a year? Seems to me it might be a little easier to get a sponsor to bit a little bit of the elephant than eat the whole thing. There might be several somebodies who don't have to have national presence but want to reach the people in their region. I think you have to get those backyard mechanics involved in the sport. The opportunity to race a John Force, Matt Hagan, Tony Schumacher, et al). TJ Zizzo is a good example if he could qualify to run with the big boys but choose to stay in his region or travel out of his region would be good thing. I think lowering cost is not having to haul your car from Pomona to Gainsville to Las Vegas. The structure to me would look like Pomona would be the start of everything west of the Mississippi and Gainsville would be the start of everything east of the Mississippi. The conclusion would be the Nationals at Indy and the Finals in Pomona. Everything in between would be a colaboration of the Division Directors insuring that enough events exist to get to those two races. The other thing I would chance is that your standing is not by points but by the money you won.
mick
Nitro Member
if nothing else - extra points and/or prize money @ indy makes the most
sense to me; something to give the nats. prominence again, otherwise
move it to charlotte.
also - sooner or later, and this has been mentioned numerously by others,
there is a limit to how fast; shortening the distance again IMO is not an option.
for nhra's entirety record et's and mph have been an ingredient in their
recipe for drag racing entertainment, regardless of track. now when the
reality of slowing sets in - this ingredient is watered down at best.
25+ great facilities in this country to hold 22-23 races annually and 3-5 days
each to do so.
the cars are cookie cutter now.
the drivers/owners/legends are not
the history (tracks) is not
the facilities are not
emphasize what is still unique
sense to me; something to give the nats. prominence again, otherwise
move it to charlotte.
also - sooner or later, and this has been mentioned numerously by others,
there is a limit to how fast; shortening the distance again IMO is not an option.
for nhra's entirety record et's and mph have been an ingredient in their
recipe for drag racing entertainment, regardless of track. now when the
reality of slowing sets in - this ingredient is watered down at best.
25+ great facilities in this country to hold 22-23 races annually and 3-5 days
each to do so.
the cars are cookie cutter now.
the drivers/owners/legends are not
the history (tracks) is not
the facilities are not
emphasize what is still unique
vegasnitro
Nitro Member
What you guys are forgetting is, if tracks could make money booking in nitro cars, they would. If divisional directors could get sponsors for their events, they would. Neither of those things are happening now ... it would be perilous to change the entire structure of drag racing counting on BOTH of those things to happen.
You guys talk about backyard mechanics and the little guy, isn't that supposed to be the nostalgia funny car movement? Well guess what ... those guys are already complaining it's too expensive and they can't run for what the tracks can pay. And the funny car count was down at the March Meet, the biggest event of the year.
I say do away with the Countdown, reduce it to 20 National Events, make 4 majors that get double points and money but make sure they are spread out evenly on the calendar and geographically as possible, with Indy still the crown jewel ... and tighten up the TV package!
You guys talk about backyard mechanics and the little guy, isn't that supposed to be the nostalgia funny car movement? Well guess what ... those guys are already complaining it's too expensive and they can't run for what the tracks can pay. And the funny car count was down at the March Meet, the biggest event of the year.
I say do away with the Countdown, reduce it to 20 National Events, make 4 majors that get double points and money but make sure they are spread out evenly on the calendar and geographically as possible, with Indy still the crown jewel ... and tighten up the TV package!
yoda
Nitro Member
Tracks book nitro cars- just not the ones that everyone knows from ESPN. A lot of that has to do with the limited, at best, amount of times cars can run outside of the schedule- either because of being dragged from one end of the country to the other and back again, or the ruling that basically shot every track operator in the foot for being able to book in the popular contender cars. Nitro shows with the proper advertising bring in crowds- there are enough independant/ alternate sanctioning body shows to prove that. Could the potential for these shows to garner a larger audience be assisted by the addition of a Force/ Schumacher/ Kalitta/ etc.? Would that be detrimental to the NHRA tour (I think that one has been answered by the restricted testing rule)?
And can DD's get sponsors for their events? Absolutely. I see so many tracks have an entire season of competition sponsored by a local or regional entity (I hear there is a great series running up in Vegas right now, Chris, and we had QuikMart last year and Merle's Auto this year sponsoring the season and the track in Tucson. I would have to say that the regional economy has had to play a major part in how sucessful a track's marketing director is in retaining a series sponsor. It's not impossible- it's just hard work.
Nostalgia racing seems to be going through some growing pains of its own, between the seemingly new battles every year between promoters/ sanctioning bodies and the teams. I've experienced first-hand the cost increase of 4130 that blew up my chassis budget by almost 30%, and the amount of everything else from tires to fuel has gone through the roof. The plan to keep that aspect of racing "inexpensive" has been swept up in economic conditions that continues to confirm that racing, of any kind, is expensive. Maybe the MM count was down because guys are reevaluating the cost of going racing as a whole- not because of what's being paid out at the meets being too low. It's just too expensive to do anything nowadays- hell, I can't recall the last professional "stick and ball sports event I attended, because that, for a party of 4, would be over $500 for the day.
The "little guy", on the other hand, like Hartley, Diehl and Bode, are similar to being the Detroit Lions having to face the Steelers, week in and week out. They are not like the nostalgia teams running their circuit- they have chosen to run in the big leagues and hope that luck and talent get them a few round wins against the juggernauts that rule the tour. That is their decision- they know how much money they can come to play with, and they have decided to sit at the high stakes tables for as long as their bank holds out.
Still don't understand everyone's attachment to the whole National Event concept, especially with the cost of attending getting more prohibitive every year, and the odds of a different outcome by years end gets smaller and smaller. Another Team Force championship? Another Team Schumacher championship? Another Team Harley championship? Team Suzuki. Team Jegs.
Team... well, not too many others, is there?
Run the 5 points-gathering races during the year to establish the Championship teams, and watch what happens when the smaller teams that come out to play, after being able to test, tune and possibly win a few outside of the National Event spotlight, come to one of the 5 races and brings their newly found "A Game" because they got to compete more than just one round a weekend... Could put a whole new twist on what makes a season champion.
vegasnitro
Nitro Member
I think if you reduce the number of events, you would also further reduce the liklihood of anyone besides DSR/JFR winning a race. The bigger teams are always better prepared.
You coming up for the Divisional this weekend or National next weekend Martin?
You coming up for the Divisional this weekend or National next weekend Martin?
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