Nhra 600-inch Pro Stock? (2 Viewers)

[Toyse Jr]

From Competition Plus:

Stop the presses, three-time champion Greg Anderson confirmed that he’s a fan of raising the 26-year old cubic inch ceiling of 500-inches for the Pro Stock division. ..READ MORE

Great Article Bobby

Is it time to bump the CID in NHRA and take it to the next level?

 

[Toejam]

And they think Pro stock costs are out of sight now?

 

[TOOLMAN]

From Competition Plus:

Stop the presses, three-time champion Greg Anderson confirmed that he’s a fan of raising the 26-year old cubic inch ceiling of 500-inches for the Pro Stock division. ..READ MORE

Great Article Bobby

Is it time to bump the CID in NHRA and take it to the next level?

I read somewhere of 820CID for IHRA. They started the cu.in. war and have always been a step ahead of NHRA. I don't think the cost would be an issue, there's just not much HP left in 500CID. Drag racers like going fast, you have the cars, lets add more cubes it will be exciting.

 

[Rajunz]

Costs would be huge, lets just throw away everything you've worked on to this point and start all over. That's not gonna happen.

 

[team23rulz]

What about staying the same and going with EFI? I remember Warren was real big on putting EFI in the cars a few years ago...

 

[Buzzz Miller]

I agree that the pro stock world needs a little shake up, but not certain that this is the answer.
I would prefer to see a bore space change, or something of the like.

And yes, it will be a big money switch either way. But as some teams are spending, it would just be a alteration of where the money is going, not a change in total dollars out. Again, the little guy will get hit the worst.

 

[Toyse Jr]

But as some teams are spending, it would just be a alteration of where the money is going, not a change in total dollars out. Again, the little guy will get hit the worst.

The little guy left the building a long time ago in NHRA..

 

[vegasnitro]

I am not a fan of this idea. The category is Pro STOCK. They have nothing in common with stock cars now, so why move them furhter away from their stock bretheren by bumping up the cubes? If we are going to move in a direction that is going to cause everyone to re-engineer everything anyway, let's make the technology relevant and go small-block, EFI, flat hoods and stock body dimensions.

 

[chop]

I'm sure he's a fan of it,after all,he doesn't have to worry about cost. Who cares if they run low 6's vs mid 6's,you can't tell the difference anyway from the stands. Just like the fuel cars,you can't tell a 4.40 from a 4.60. The thing about P/S is,it's really about getting every ounce of HP out of 500 CI,the clutch,the setup etc. There's a shortage of cars now,to make the 500 CI motors obsolete just might run a few more out of the class.

 

["Dr. Dirt"]

Could it be that Greg wants to design the next GM powerplant? Maybe he's getting tired of running powerplants originally designed by his competitor to win his races?

 

[TOOLMAN]

I am not a fan of this idea. The category is Pro STOCK. They have nothing in common with stock cars now, so why move them furhter away from their stock bretheren by bumping up the cubes? If we are going to move in a direction that is going to cause everyone to re-engineer everything anyway, let's make the technology relevant and go small-block, EFI, flat hoods and stock body dimensions.

OK, lets tell WARREN,STEVE,BILL,SONNY and all the other wonderful minds out there building these motors to step back in time.. Heck look at the cu.in. motors they're building for super classes, well over 600CID. OC has a 620CID for $11,000.00 thats a bargain in todays standard. You say the cost would be enormous, they are, but ask Warren,Kurt,Greg and they would like to see more cubic inches in there motors. I bet you ask these builders about cost per HP, the smaller cubic inch would be higher to develop additional HP out of 500CID than stepping up to bigger cubic inch. Go back to OC big cu.in. more HP better value for the buck. I SAY LET CHALLENGE THE BUILDERS TO COME ON AND GIVE THEIR THOUGHTS, WE KNOW YOUR READING.

 

[vegasnitro]

OK, lets tell WARREN,STEVE,BILL,SONNY and all the other wonderful minds out there building these motors to step back in time.. Heck look at the cu.in. motors they're building for super classes, well over 600CID. OC has a 620CID for $11,000.00 thats a bargain in todays standard. You say the cost would be enormous, they are, but ask Warren,Kurt,Greg and they would like to see more cubic inches in there motors. I bet you ask these builders about cost per HP, the smaller cubic inch would be higher to develop additional HP out of 500CID than stepping up to bigger cubic inch. Go back to OC big cu.in. more HP better value for the buck. I SAY LET CHALLENGE THE BUILDERS TO COME ON AND GIVE THEIR THOUGHTS, WE KNOW YOUR READING.

Any change to the engine formula of Pro Stock is going to be costly. My only point is this is supposed to be "Stock" cars distilled to their highest level. To that end, they should look like stock cars and be configured somewhat like stock cars. Switching to EFI is not stepping back in time relative to carbuerators. The Pro Stock Trucks were only .6ish to .7ish off of Pro Stock with small blocks and flat hoods, just switch them small blocks over to EFI and it will not take them long to reach today's performance numbers.

My 2 cents (if it is worth that much) says any change in the formula should move the cars closer to a "stock" configuration rather than farther away from it. Who knows, you may get more factory involvement or lure new manufacturers in if there were small blocks, EFI and stock body dimensions so the cars actually look like their street bretheren.

My next 2 cents (probably worth even less than the first 2 cents) says if you are going to increase the CID, just remove the cap altogether as the IHRA boys have already done all the R+D on the mountain motor stuff and they could run their cars over in NHRA too. Car counts would be pretty high for a while!!

 

[TOOLMAN]

Any change to the engine formula of Pro Stock is going to be costly. My only point is this is supposed to be "Stock" cars distilled to their highest level. To that end, they should look like stock cars and be configured somewhat like stock cars. Switching to EFI is not stepping back in time relative to carbuerators. The Pro Stock Trucks were only .6ish to .7ish off of Pro Stock with small blocks and flat hoods, just switch them small blocks over to EFI and it will not take them long to reach today's performance numbers.

My 2 cents (if it is worth that much) says any change in the formula should move the cars closer to a "stock" configuration rather than farther away from it. Who knows, you may get more factory involvement or lure new manufacturers in if there were small blocks, EFI and stock body dimensions so the cars actually look like their street bretheren.

My next 2 cents (probably worth even less than the first 2 cents) says if you are going to increase the CID, just remove the cap altogether as the IHRA boys have already done all the R+D on the mountain motor stuff and they could run their cars over in NHRA too. Car counts would be pretty high for a while!!

I don't know if you read about the Pontiac GXP, but Don Ness Racecraft work together with Pontiac and spent a lot of time and money developing that body so it would resemble the look of stock but still stay within the means of the chassis and safety. Nascar has done the same thing, but they have to stay in the realm of safety as well , these cars are very fast.
I will say your 2 cents about opening up CID would bring in more competitors from IHRA, , thats 2 cent well spent.

 

[nick name]

Who knows, you may get more factory involvement or lure new manufacturers in if there were small blocks, EFI and stock body dimensions so the cars actually look like their street bretheren.

I agree with getting the body dimensions back somewhere approaching reality but in my experience it's the manufacturers who have screwed things up to this point. The first time a body seems "uncompetitive" many OEMs will go crying for a rule change instead of working harder and making more horsepower.

The Daytonas couldn't win since their front overhang was a lot less than a Firebird. Hmm, didn't your own guys design it that way? And that rule got changed AFTER there had already been a change allowed for stretching the nose since Mopar no longer made a rear wheel drive car.

The Dakotas couldn't win in PST since they were halfway between a compact S10/Ranger and a full sized truck. Wasn't that your sales pitch, that your truck was mid sized?

It all comes down to "We'd like to play, but we don't want to be embarrassed and don't want to have to actually design a better car". No one wants to see a single-make series, so the rest is history.

I don't know that there would be any gain in going to more cubic inches other than the possibility of more engine providers such as Sonny, Kaase, and Indy. While that's not a bad thing, the entire exodus to Gas Funny Cars (term stolen from a previous poster) doesn't need any more help.

 

[Wes]

They should either go to PRODUCTION engines or use the IHRA platform. Both would be less costly than making the current technology 100 inches bigger....new blocks, new heads, new intakes, new cranks, new rods, new pistons, new valve-trains, etc., etc. Not to mention all the R&D.

With production engines in use the major OEM manufacturers would supply most of the R&D (Ford and Toyota are/were interested in this program), no need to develop new hard parts (mandate the use of assembly line blocks and heads), and much of the industry is already supplying speed parts for the current motors.

Going with the IHRA formula is a cinch...all the technology exists and is readily available...from basic hard parts to complete engines. All the chassis manufacturers have these set ups ready to build. All the drive train has already been figured out. Could you imagine the NHRA guys/gals spending their time advancing the true mountain motor combination? 6.10's @ 230would be the norm within 18 months of the rule change.

 

[Nunz]

Wes, I don't think that NHRA guys adopting IHRA rules would result in those type of performances, even within 18 months. I may be wrong, but I don't think it's just a bunch of weekend warriors running 6.20s & 30s over in IHRA, I'd bet they are pretty advanced. JMO

 

[Toyse Jr]

Wes, I don't think that NHRA guys adopting IHRA rules would result in those type of performances, even within 18 months. I may be wrong, but I don't think it's just a bunch of weekend warriors running 6.20s & 30s over in IHRA, I'd bet they are pretty advanced. JMO

Nunzio I did not think that Wes comment was meant that the IHRA a bunch of weekend warriors they are far from that.

They need 5 speeds instead of lencos...

 

[DrRocket]

Could you imagine the NHRA guys/gals spending their time advancing the true mountain motor combination? 6.10's @ 230would be the norm within 18 months of the rule change.

And then they'll be spending time and money trying to figure out how to slow them down.

The now-defunct ASA started allowing the use of 6 cylinders as a "low cost" alternative to the V8's and before you know it, race teams, being as competetive as they are, started dumping tons of money into the sixes because of a perceived advantage to them. It got to the point where the sixes were much more expensive to run than the V8s, and a lot of the smaller teams returned to the regional series where they could still afford to compete albeit without the national exposure. I've no doubt that the Pro Stock teams, at least the ones who could afford it, would take whatever they get and run with it, developing it to the nth degree.

As has been pointed out before, any major change whether EFI, mountain motor, smaller engines, etc is going to cost teams money. It will also render most data, engineering and otherwise, collected to date worthless. This would = more testing which would = more money.

I'm hoping any changes are well thought out and take into considertion future ramifications. Just dumping the change onto the class in the offseason would be counterproductive, IMHO. I think that it'd be wise to settle on the change, say EFI, then give them maybe two years to do the research and testing before allowing the new combination onto the national event tracks. It would also give NHRA a look at how the new combination would perform, and see if any restrictions would be required. It wouldn't be perfect, or cheap. But nothing will. As part of the deal, all engineering development would be shared amongst teams up until the final offseason before the new rules kick in.

 

[Todd]

How about just letting them use NO2 ??

O WAIT.....did they try that already?

just had to throw that in

 

[.]

I'm all for bigger engines but I just don't see how it wouldn't cause the already sky-high price of racing in that class to go even higher.