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New NHRA board members
- Thread starter ex-nsp
- Start date
SundayNiagara
Nitro Member
When NHRA was formed, one of the board members involved when the original papers was signed, was Bob Gottlieb, an attorney. Maybe this guy likes drag racing too?
clwill
Nitro Member
The first/only outside directors, super. Can't hurt to have some people from outside looking at things.
I'd love to know a bunch of things, though. For example:
On the upside, hey, it's progress.
I'd love to know a bunch of things, though. For example:
- How were they chosen? Who were the possible candidates, and how were they sourced?
- Two old white men to join a board of old white men? Did they consider any women or people of color? It's one of the most diverse sports on the planet, shouldn't the board reflect that?
- Who elected them? How did the election work?
- Do they have an equal vote with the other board members, or do they have a vote at all?
- Why these people? I see the logic of having a NASCAR person on board, clearly they've done some things right. But why a lawyer? Is there some legal threat on the horizon? Or are they trying to get ready for another attempt to sell?
- Up until now the board consisted of only four people? Really? You'd think an organization of this size would have a board of 10-15, largely outsiders.
On the upside, hey, it's progress.
The first/only outside directors, super. Can't hurt to have some people from outside looking at things.
I'd love to know a bunch of things, though. For example:
No, I'm not owed these answers. It's a privately held organization, and they didn't even have to release this announcement. But would be nice to understand nonetheless...
- How were they chosen? Who were the possible candidates, and how were they sourced?
- Two old white men to join a board of old white men? Did they consider any women or people of color? It's one of the most diverse sports on the planet, shouldn't the board reflect that?
- Who elected them? How did the election work?
- Do they have an equal vote with the other board members, or do they have a vote at all?
- Why these people? I see the logic of having a NASCAR person on board, clearly they've done some things right. But why a lawyer? Is there some legal threat on the horizon? Or are they trying to get ready for another attempt to sell?
- Up until now the board consisted of only four people? Really? You'd think an organization of this size would have a board of 10-15, largely outsiders.
On the upside, hey, it's progress.
Just because it's a change, doesn't mean it's progress.
Time will tell.
clwill
Nitro Member
Certainly true, but outside board members is a small nudge in the right direction.
clwill
Nitro Member
They certainly can and should. But how do we know they did? Who did they consider? Do you know?
And when Melanie Troxel or Shirley Muldowney or Ashley Force or Antron Brown or Cruz Pedregon or ... look up to the board of their sanctioning body and see an "old boys club" does that instill confidence? I don't know.
Or when Castrol or DieHard or the Army look at the board and see a group of people that don't even vaguely reflect their target market, does that instill confidence? I don't know.
I'm not saying anything about social engineering, I'm talking running a business. And that means considering your constituencies.
Paul
Nitro Member
Chris, I thought we resolved this a while back in a previous thread on this issue. I think its important for NHRA members and participants to understand exactly how the NHRA is structured and how it is being run.
The NHRA is not a privately held organization.
Its a free standing 503(c)6 non-profit with no shares of stock and it is not allowed to have any private ownership and it has none.
It can never be sold outright, only its assets can be sold and only if that sale directly benefits the members of the organization in compliance with the original stated intention of the organization, which was to directly and only benefit its members by providing a safe environment for drag racing competition.
The NHRA, as is the intention with 503(c)6 organizations, was originally intended to ultimately be controlled by its members, who had the rights to freely elect its board members.
In the mid-80's the NHRA held a special membership vote that essentially stripped the members of these voting rights. From that point on, only the board members themselves had the rights to remove current board members and add new board members. If new board members were added, this could only have been done through a modification of the organiziation's bylaws and by a vote of the current board members.
These actions cannot be done in a vaccuum, NHRA members have a right to inspect the modified bylaws at the NHRA office.
Some, including myself, are of the opinion that the mid-80's "voting right removal" operation could successfully be legally challenged and reversed, bringing back members rights to elect and replace board members.
Also, some, including myself, feel that the NHRA is currently not in compliance with the general rules regarding how 503(c)6 "business league" organizations are to be structured and run, and that this also could be legally challenged.
I don't think a legal challenge is impossible, but it would not be an easy thing to do for several reasons. Firstly, the NHRA has done a great "snow job" of making people think that the NHRA is a private organization and they can do anything they want with it, so most members don't realize that is not the case.
It also would be an expensive legal battle, requiring someone with deep pockets willing to take it on.
But please, lets at least break through the "NHRA snow job" to make it clear to NHRA members what their actual rights and opportunities are.
If anyone is interested in more detail in how the NHRA could be legally challenged, see this tread:
http://www.nitromater.com/nhra/25271-vegas-p-r-o-meeting-8.html
There is also another thread where I thought we resolved for once and for all that the NHRA has no private ownership, I couldn't find that on a quick search but if someone wants to see it I can dig it out.
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clwill
Nitro Member
There is nothing "resolved". You say the same things over and over, and it still doesn't mean anything.
clwill
Nitro Member
Yep, you're right, I'm the bad guy here. NHRA listens to me... yeah, right.
Randy
Nitro Member
Grow up.
Paul
Nitro Member
Chris, I'm stunned. I don't understand why you want to continue to distribute disinformation that helps sustain the NHRA "snow job", particularly since you are the moderator of this forum which is one of the few that NHRA members can freely discuss these issues on.
This a very black and white situation and your opinion appears to just be based on uninformed speculation and maybe swallowing too many of the NHRA's "little red pills".
I clearly reported the below in full detail in the last thread on this topic, and as you had actively been responding to all my posts, with your lack of response to that final post I assumed you had finally come to an understanding of the situation, but I guess I was wrong.
One more time, here's a summary of the situation.
More driven by curiosity than anything else I requested copies of all the NHRA's state and federal corporation filings. Since they are a non-profit, anyone can request copies of these state and federal documents.
There's no wiggle room here, these documents clearly show that the NHRA is a 503(c)6 organization that by law can have no private ownership, and on this issue the NHRA is in full compliance. There are clearly no shares of stock and no private ownership, it would be illegal to have those.
I don't know what else I can do convince you other than send you copies of this 2" stack of documents, which we can do if we really have to, but why would I be lying about this, what purpose would that serve?
But please, its important for both you and all NHRA members here to "get your head out of the NHRA snow" and understand how this organization is structured and how it is supposed to be run.
clwill
Nitro Member
You're more than free to discuss them. Please don't interpret my lack of response as anything more than my tiring of your missives on the subject. You continue to insist on an opinion of the structure that I don't feel is legally accurate. If you feel so strongly, find support for your position, get legal representation, and start a lawsuit to overturn the things you feel are wrong.
I'm not "snowed" by NHRA. If you believe another poster on this thread, I'm the very personification of the devil for the NHRA, and the cause of its decline.
Paul
Nitro Member
Chris, I know have voiced some strong opinions on this forum on the opportunities NHRA members may or may not have to gain more control of the organization. Theses opinions on the practicality of such an attempt are definitely subject to challenge and dispute.
But the statements about the basic organizational structure of the NHRA, the issue of private ownership, the laws they must abide to in running the organization and members rights to access the bylaws and records of the organization are totally black and white, if you don't believe it I'll send you these documents, again, what more can I do to convince you?
But please, stop supporting and spreading this disinformation on this NHRA ownership and control issue. Its 100% clear by the NHRA's own corporation filings and bylaws that there is no private ownership. Its foolish and damaging for you to keep stating, particularly without anything to back it up, that the NHRA is privately owned. It is undisputably illegal for a 503(c)6 organization to have any private ownership, and on this issue the NHRA is in compliance.
I guess this clearly shows how effective the NHRA's snow job has been over the past many years. Chris, you seem like a smart guy, but purely because they've been running it like they own it, you and 99.9% of NHRA members swallowed the pills and think they actually do own it.
I thought that also until I started looking in to it. Initially I was shocked on how hidden any description of the NHRA's corporate structure was on the NHRA's website and other materials. That seemed, and is, strange for any organization of this size. They really don't want it to be easy to find out how this organization is structured and is supposed to be run, and they've done a great job at it. Please, lets not keep helping them perpetuate this snow job.
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clwill
Nitro Member
Clearly they are not, or any number of the people with more of a vested interest in this would have challenged them in the last 30+ years. People like DonS, JohnF, DonP, ForrestL, and any of the dozens of other quite wealthy owners have the financial wherewithal, business savvy, legal connections and potential gains from a more open structure, yet they have not. That is the evidence I need.
Paul, here again, please do not interpret my lack of future responses on this topic as anything other than my disinterest in continuing the discussion.
Well I guess it's time for quotas then...
Paul
Nitro Member
Well ok, because a bunch of guys going 110% flat out on the tough task of running their racing teams haven't had found enough time, understanding or funds to legally challenge this snow job, lets take that as final evidence that overturns the clear legal documents which anyone, including yourself, can access and verify to confirm that there is no private ownership of the NHRA and never can be.
Chris, you just bought in to the NHRA snow job. If you don't want to respond to any more of my posts, fine. But please, don't keep spreading this disinformation about private ownership of the NHRA that is as you have stated just based on your conjecture and is flat 100% wrong.
Keep in mind that the NHRA has been smart about implementing and sustaining this snow job. They rule the NHRA with an iron fist, like they own it even though they don't. I can understand any owner or member being pretty hesitant to undergo any activity that could put them in the bad graces of the NHRA, look at the BS that Don S. went through just for having some nitro in one of his support trailers.
In addition, as has been shown with the Pro organization, its very difficult to get NHRA team owners to band together on key issues. These two factors have played in to the hands of the NHRA, helping to keep the snow job going. Ironically its actually one of the few things they've done really well, likely because it directly effects how well their pockets are getting lined.
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