Terry I understand what your trying to say but the point is, she will never be on Union Grove Raceway in a Nitro Funny Car, so who gives a $hit if some crafty independent could beat her. She dont have to worry about that.
Licensing on NHRA prepared tracks (A. Force) (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter TJ
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Terry I understand what your trying to say but the point is, she will never be on Union Grove Raceway in a Nitro Funny Car, so who gives a $hit if some crafty independent could beat her. She dont have to worry about that.
Robert....I have an advanced e.t. licence 2b and do know what I am talking about.
I guess I was just venting about the "lucky sperm club" and the direction this sport is heading. I for one am not impressed w/ this group of newbies and their checkbooks.
And to B. Miller....I have been very involved in CIFCA for a number of years and have to say that I was very impressed w/ your racing operation.
The values your family displays towards one another/other race teams/ and the fans was very impressive and made me want to be a better parent.
Your morals are top shelf which I rarely see w/ racers.
I for one did not realize that this site had so many 'FANS' of the sport while never really knowing the aspects of the mechanical side.
And the fact was there on H.Will having her license yanked.....you have to be involved in the behind the scenes to know the dirt. Alot of veterans are very concerned w/ these newbies running 320 mph and not knowing where they are on the race track.
I hve seen many comp. graphs that indicate full throttle .8 to 1.9 sec. beyond the finish line.
I am a fan of anyone that can take out the money cars. You know the money cars, they come to every race w/ 8 shortblocks and 11 employees to service the car.
How hard could that be?
It used to be that making the cars run A to B was the challenge.
Now the challenge is finding $$$$$$$$.
I guess I was just venting about the "lucky sperm club" and the direction this sport is heading. I for one am not impressed w/ this group of newbies and their checkbooks.
And to B. Miller....I have been very involved in CIFCA for a number of years and have to say that I was very impressed w/ your racing operation.
The values your family displays towards one another/other race teams/ and the fans was very impressive and made me want to be a better parent.
Your morals are top shelf which I rarely see w/ racers.
I for one did not realize that this site had so many 'FANS' of the sport while never really knowing the aspects of the mechanical side.
And the fact was there on H.Will having her license yanked.....you have to be involved in the behind the scenes to know the dirt. Alot of veterans are very concerned w/ these newbies running 320 mph and not knowing where they are on the race track.
I hve seen many comp. graphs that indicate full throttle .8 to 1.9 sec. beyond the finish line.
I am a fan of anyone that can take out the money cars. You know the money cars, they come to every race w/ 8 shortblocks and 11 employees to service the car.
How hard could that be?
It used to be that making the cars run A to B was the challenge.
Now the challenge is finding $$$$$$$$.
Toejam
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At Vegas I talked to one FC driver think's Ashley will have problems driving a FC, Especially on a Hot/greasy track. Remember Robert Hight had Plenty of Seat time before his first race. I'll certainly give her the benefit of the doubt but all the Dragster laps in the World won't prepare you for a FC.
From ESPN: So I guess John is misreporting again.
"I really want her to tell me she's ready," Force said. "She's shown me she can drive the car. She tested fast enough to qualify at Las Vegas. Heck, she was on fire one time and she got out smiling."ESPN.com - Blount: Vote for Ashley? Young Force's career in your hands
nedannouncer
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"behind the scenes"
"And the fact was there on H.Will having her license yanked.....you have to be involved in the behind the scenes to know the dirt."
And Keith "Roo Man" Burgan is not behind the scenes?!
yikes.
Brian
"And the fact was there on H.Will having her license yanked.....you have to be involved in the behind the scenes to know the dirt."
And Keith "Roo Man" Burgan is not behind the scenes?!
yikes.
Brian
willy
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Terry, between this thread and the other of you hammering Ashley and all the 'lucky sperm club' members. I think it's obvious..YOUR JEALOUS!
Listen to Roo Man..you might actually learn something..rather than spilling your distaste for anyone young having success.
I'm sorry you missed the boat..but it's time to move on.
HEMI6point1
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Right on David... Right on.
Four Kalitta
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Hillary's license was NEVER yanked or taken away.
I got my information straight from the Ypsilanti office so I don't know how much more behind the scenes you can get.
Bob
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He'll just reply that you're wrong and just don't know the facts. I don't like to get personal but this guy is a walking, talking idiot. Why he even posts this BS is hard to figure.
Maybe he thinks it's funny. Maybe he thinks some people will actually believe him. Maybe he's got mental problems.
Keith Burgan
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Terry,
going back to your original post, you may have licenced in a BB/FC but you do not have a NHRA pro (or semi pro) certification so you did not need to meet any performance standards. As mentioned in other posts the criteria for getting a NHRA licence are clearly spelled out in the rule book and you obviously did not meet those standards. If Gary and Dale signed off on your paperwork you obviously did OK considering what you were driving.
Ashley has consistently run fast enough to satisfy the criteria for a fuel funny car licence and she has done it under less than ideal conditions at times. As for your comments about the other drivers shunning her it sure did not look that way at the pre Nats test in late August.
You class yourself as an "insider" but you appeared not to know about Eric making a number of laps in Ben Marshall's car to get his Alky dragster certification. I was there for some of those runs so I know that it is true.
Your Hillary Will accusations appear to be on shakey ground too. I have not been to too many events recently (busy with my business) but I am based in Nitro Alley (aka Brownsburg, Indiana) where an increasing number of teams have shops and I see a lot of the crew guys in my travels around town. As I stated before if that is a true story someone else would have brought it up before you.
I have no idea what your day to day connection with the sport is but if you are not travelling full time with a team I would suggest that Boise is not exactly in the middle of the nitro world (although it is a great place). As suggested by another poster your current missives on this board sound just a little too much like sour grapes.
As evident from a couple of posts several people on the board know my history (or at least some of it) so let us know about yourself and then we can judge how credible you are,
Roo Man
going back to your original post, you may have licenced in a BB/FC but you do not have a NHRA pro (or semi pro) certification so you did not need to meet any performance standards. As mentioned in other posts the criteria for getting a NHRA licence are clearly spelled out in the rule book and you obviously did not meet those standards. If Gary and Dale signed off on your paperwork you obviously did OK considering what you were driving.
Ashley has consistently run fast enough to satisfy the criteria for a fuel funny car licence and she has done it under less than ideal conditions at times. As for your comments about the other drivers shunning her it sure did not look that way at the pre Nats test in late August.
You class yourself as an "insider" but you appeared not to know about Eric making a number of laps in Ben Marshall's car to get his Alky dragster certification. I was there for some of those runs so I know that it is true.
Your Hillary Will accusations appear to be on shakey ground too. I have not been to too many events recently (busy with my business) but I am based in Nitro Alley (aka Brownsburg, Indiana) where an increasing number of teams have shops and I see a lot of the crew guys in my travels around town. As I stated before if that is a true story someone else would have brought it up before you.
I have no idea what your day to day connection with the sport is but if you are not travelling full time with a team I would suggest that Boise is not exactly in the middle of the nitro world (although it is a great place). As suggested by another poster your current missives on this board sound just a little too much like sour grapes.
As evident from a couple of posts several people on the board know my history (or at least some of it) so let us know about yourself and then we can judge how credible you are,
Roo Man
Keith...I have been around racing long before John Force ever had a Wally.
I was w/ T. Grose' team in 86 when we beat him in the final. In our camp was M. Kloeber, Gary Phillips, Lanny Maglizzi, and Barb.
Before that was a diver for a car driven by Larry Sutton called Hard Times based out of So Calif.
Am very connected in this sport to the tune of being able to ring S Pluegers gate bell and have it open.
Most of you do not even know who Plueger is...he builds the best chassis' in the industry. He just cannot build them fast enough though and that is why you will see most going to Murf.
In the 90's I toured w/ Jack Wyatt and Brent Fanning where we matched raced Force or Bazemore every other weekend.
We moved to Boise 6 mos ago from So Calif for life style change and love it.
In fact Rick Cooper is based here in Boise and is a top notch pilot who has a good eye for conditions.
Along w/ Bode' co-crew chief.
The H. Will incident was very serious. She, like Force' daughters are rarely approached by the other drivers on a friendship basis.
The veterans like you to pay your dues, not buy em.
I know lots of dirt......but like most dirt..it washes away and we can play again.
I was w/ T. Grose' team in 86 when we beat him in the final. In our camp was M. Kloeber, Gary Phillips, Lanny Maglizzi, and Barb.
Before that was a diver for a car driven by Larry Sutton called Hard Times based out of So Calif.
Am very connected in this sport to the tune of being able to ring S Pluegers gate bell and have it open.
Most of you do not even know who Plueger is...he builds the best chassis' in the industry. He just cannot build them fast enough though and that is why you will see most going to Murf.
In the 90's I toured w/ Jack Wyatt and Brent Fanning where we matched raced Force or Bazemore every other weekend.
We moved to Boise 6 mos ago from So Calif for life style change and love it.
In fact Rick Cooper is based here in Boise and is a top notch pilot who has a good eye for conditions.
Along w/ Bode' co-crew chief.
The H. Will incident was very serious. She, like Force' daughters are rarely approached by the other drivers on a friendship basis.
The veterans like you to pay your dues, not buy em.
I know lots of dirt......but like most dirt..it washes away and we can play again.
Keith Burgan
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Terry,
I know Steve P quite well. First met him in 1984 when I went to the Paramount shop with Densham to order Gary's first "store bought" car. I have also worked on a few of his frames--I tinned the new one that Bob Bode got a couple of years ago. I know Tim and Barb too, get my abrasives through her, have known Gary Phillips since I repaired his BB/D after a towing crash in the late 70's. I first raced myself in the mid 60's so I have been around the block a few times too.
I toured with Densham in the summer of 84 and came back to the US in 1988 and did two seasons with Smith and Etchells. Have lived in the Indy area since then working in the racing industry. Crewed for Epler at Indy in 99 and Cruz in 04. Dived both times and got to the final in both cases. Mounted 5 Monte Carlos for Tony and Cruz and one each for Densham and Creasy. My shop does fabrication work for the Carrier Boyz/Cory Mac and Tuttle/J.R. Todd and recently built new pro stock bikes for Angelle and Antron.
You may be able to get in the door at Pleuger's but can you walk in to the Castrol Technology trailer and hang out with Coil and Bernie? Better still have you been to Coil's house for dinner?
Sorry to name drop but you started it.
Roo Man
I know Steve P quite well. First met him in 1984 when I went to the Paramount shop with Densham to order Gary's first "store bought" car. I have also worked on a few of his frames--I tinned the new one that Bob Bode got a couple of years ago. I know Tim and Barb too, get my abrasives through her, have known Gary Phillips since I repaired his BB/D after a towing crash in the late 70's. I first raced myself in the mid 60's so I have been around the block a few times too.
I toured with Densham in the summer of 84 and came back to the US in 1988 and did two seasons with Smith and Etchells. Have lived in the Indy area since then working in the racing industry. Crewed for Epler at Indy in 99 and Cruz in 04. Dived both times and got to the final in both cases. Mounted 5 Monte Carlos for Tony and Cruz and one each for Densham and Creasy. My shop does fabrication work for the Carrier Boyz/Cory Mac and Tuttle/J.R. Todd and recently built new pro stock bikes for Angelle and Antron.
You may be able to get in the door at Pleuger's but can you walk in to the Castrol Technology trailer and hang out with Coil and Bernie? Better still have you been to Coil's house for dinner?
Sorry to name drop but you started it.
Roo Man
Keith...Glad to see someone else here who know the mechanical side of the biz. You asked what I did so I gave you a little tickle.
I stay away from the CASTROL CAMP unless Kevin M wants to go out after a race. Too much chaos and lots of drama there.
I stopped working on cars when my children were born to concentrate on retiring young...I am 38 and spend everyday @ home or @ the races.
I had plenty of opportunity to work under many tuners but the only ones I were interested in were D. Armstrong and Lahaie.
I never wanted to get into the cheap labor they all provide and unless you are a tuner or owner its a tough sell for me.
I own the adjacent building Double AA works out of now in Temecula. A true gentleman who could tune a monkey to low e.t.
Congrats on the mounting of T. Pedrg bodies..I have always been impressed w/ the flip side of the body. Is Chris G still helping Tony or was that a summer thing?
I stay away from the CASTROL CAMP unless Kevin M wants to go out after a race. Too much chaos and lots of drama there.
I stopped working on cars when my children were born to concentrate on retiring young...I am 38 and spend everyday @ home or @ the races.
I had plenty of opportunity to work under many tuners but the only ones I were interested in were D. Armstrong and Lahaie.
I never wanted to get into the cheap labor they all provide and unless you are a tuner or owner its a tough sell for me.
I own the adjacent building Double AA works out of now in Temecula. A true gentleman who could tune a monkey to low e.t.
Congrats on the mounting of T. Pedrg bodies..I have always been impressed w/ the flip side of the body. Is Chris G still helping Tony or was that a summer thing?
Murph
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This I'd like to hear about......
jeff
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Damn guy gotta stick up for ol Don Gay Jr a bit the guy drove alky funnycar for awhile and was pretty damn good from what I remember, plus the guy could have made as many laps as he wanted to. His dad was co owner of Houston Raceway Park! Get over it! Not as many people are as great a driver as you would be
Keith Burgan
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Jeff,
I am with you on the Gay situation. I got to know him when he was driving the alky car, super nice guy. He was not the first to hit the wall and definitely will not be the last. After the crash Grandma put her foot down and nixed a return to the wheel.
Roo Man
I am with you on the Gay situation. I got to know him when he was driving the alky car, super nice guy. He was not the first to hit the wall and definitely will not be the last. After the crash Grandma put her foot down and nixed a return to the wheel.
Roo Man
Keith Burgan
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Terry,
you would know the FUCM line, "Good labor ain't cheap, Cheap labor ain't good". Been there, got the T shirt (literally). I am with you on the AA/Dale, LaHaie deal too although I would add Jimmy Prock who I have known since he was wrenching on the Jam-Air car with Spare-engine. Can't forget my old boss Paul Smith who did more with less at Etchells' camp in the late 80's when I was there. A little hard to get along with a times but as sharp as they come.
Roo Man
you would know the FUCM line, "Good labor ain't cheap, Cheap labor ain't good". Been there, got the T shirt (literally). I am with you on the AA/Dale, LaHaie deal too although I would add Jimmy Prock who I have known since he was wrenching on the Jam-Air car with Spare-engine. Can't forget my old boss Paul Smith who did more with less at Etchells' camp in the late 80's when I was there. A little hard to get along with a times but as sharp as they come.
Roo Man
Treeshaker
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I am not sure I am qualified, but I would like to throw my two cents into this conversation.
My son Richard did most of his licensing at LACR, including his AA/FC. I would have to say that I wouldn't take a current AA/FC to LACR to run today even with a very experienced driver. The set up of the car would be so different than what it is where they normally run that the chances of getting the car to run a representitive time are nominal at best.
I have worked with two of my children and my son in law in drag racing and each of them has become a top ten driver on the NHRA and IHRA circuits multiple times. I didn't give any of them anything except the opportunity to work hard and to make something of themselves in the profession of their choice. Have you heard about the driving exploits of my oldest son and my 18 year old grandson? I didn't think so. They were given the same opportunities, they just weren't interested and I have worked with them the same way in their chosen professions.
Everyone has the opportunity to become a professional driver. The ones that don't, are lacking something. And that something is usually not driving talent, but the drive, focus and undieing determination to make it happen. It takes a lot of sacrifice to develop the whole package that it takes to become one of the selected few.
Money and family ties can make it easier sometimes, but sometimes it means you have to reach a higher standard to be accepted for your talents.
My son Richard did most of his licensing at LACR, including his AA/FC. I would have to say that I wouldn't take a current AA/FC to LACR to run today even with a very experienced driver. The set up of the car would be so different than what it is where they normally run that the chances of getting the car to run a representitive time are nominal at best.
I have worked with two of my children and my son in law in drag racing and each of them has become a top ten driver on the NHRA and IHRA circuits multiple times. I didn't give any of them anything except the opportunity to work hard and to make something of themselves in the profession of their choice. Have you heard about the driving exploits of my oldest son and my 18 year old grandson? I didn't think so. They were given the same opportunities, they just weren't interested and I have worked with them the same way in their chosen professions.
Everyone has the opportunity to become a professional driver. The ones that don't, are lacking something. And that something is usually not driving talent, but the drive, focus and undieing determination to make it happen. It takes a lot of sacrifice to develop the whole package that it takes to become one of the selected few.
Money and family ties can make it easier sometimes, but sometimes it means you have to reach a higher standard to be accepted for your talents.
Bob
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Virgil, I don't disagree with you but I'll say money is a huge factor. If you don't have the cash to go first class, don't bother. You wouldn't have a prayer.
If you have the cash then drive, focus and undieing determination are mandatory to succeed.
Keith Burgan
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Robert wrote: "Virgil, I don't disagree with you but I'll say money is a huge factor. If you don't have the cash to go first class, don't bother. You wouldn't have a prayer.
If you have the cash then drive, focus and undieing determination are mandatory to succeed."
Things have changed a little over the last few years but if Whit Bazemore had that outlook where would he be now? Likewise Dale Creasy Jr, the new IHRA F/C champ. His determination landed some backing but he is definitely not a lucky sperm club member (apart from the fact that he grew up at dragstrips around the country).
Roo Man
If you have the cash then drive, focus and undieing determination are mandatory to succeed."
Things have changed a little over the last few years but if Whit Bazemore had that outlook where would he be now? Likewise Dale Creasy Jr, the new IHRA F/C champ. His determination landed some backing but he is definitely not a lucky sperm club member (apart from the fact that he grew up at dragstrips around the country).
Roo Man
