John Asher finally says it, nhra & powerade (2 Viewers)

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...Saying that POWERade has a responsibility to promote NHRA drag racing is more analagous to saying that McDonald's has the responsibility to promote ABC TV programming because it advertises on the ABC network.

Jim
Jim,

You've deflated your own argument with this example. There are hundreds of examples of cross promotion between entities to their mutual benefits... McDonalds pays for product placement in a movie or show, the producers of the movie or show do in-store promotions at McDonald's advertising their movie/show. Each situation drives customers to both enterprises.

Jay's point is very clear. Powerade made a marketing investment with NHRA but has failed to leverage that investment by promoting their involvement... if not for NHRA trumpeting the Powerade banner, no one would know that Powerade was involved. Because Powerade does nothing in the way of marketing their involvement with NHRA they have pigeonholed that investment with no potential for growth.
 
Jim,

You've deflated your own argument with this example. There are hundreds of examples of cross promotion between entities to their mutual benefits... McDonalds pays for product placement in a movie or show, the producers of the movie or show do in-store promotions at McDonald's advertising their movie/show. Each situation drives customers to both enterprises.

Jay's point is very clear. Powerade made a marketing investment with NHRA but has failed to leverage that investment by promoting their involvement... if not for NHRA trumpeting the Powerade banner, no one would know that Powerade was involved. Because Powerade does nothing in the way of marketing their involvement with NHRA they have pigeonholed that investment with no potential for growth.


Dead on, Greg!

Coca-Cola and Powerade have made, at best, a half hearted effort with NHRA, and that is sad- their opportunity to win over a dedicated audience seems to be slipping away with every post. And now that the die has been cast, finding any corporation that would be willing to make an investment on the scale of Winston is going to be difficult, especially with the public speculation regarding dollars invested that will now overshadow any future dealings... I wonder what the folks from HD are thinking about their investment? Ground Floor optimism? Or Penthouse Floor suicide?
 
Jon,

Thanks for the response. In talking race sponsorship I hadn't considered that oit was being done at fire sale rates. In that case I understand what you are saying.
 
You've deflated your own argument with this example. There are hundreds of examples of cross promotion between entities to their mutual benefits... McDonalds pays for product placement in a movie or show, the producers of the movie or show do in-store promotions at McDonald's advertising their movie/show. Each situation drives customers to both enterprises.

If you think McDonald's gets involved in cross promotions to build ticket sales for a movie, you are kidding yourself. McDonald's only gets involved in cross promotions with movies it believes are going to have a large audience and gain a lot of attention in the media. The idea is for McDonald's to take advantage of the attention the movie will generate on its own, not build attention for the movie. McDonald's is not doing anything to help movie ticket sales. As for the movie producers, they are selling McDonald's the right to do the cross promotion at a price based on their anticipated ticket sales for the film. They are not working with McDonald's to build ticket sales and they are not relying on in-store promotions to drive ticket sales. And McDonald's does not get involved with any movie that does not appear to be a blockbuster well before it is made.


Jay's point is very clear. Powerade made a marketing investment with NHRA but has failed to leverage that investment by promoting their involvement... if not for NHRA trumpeting the Powerade banner, no one would know that Powerade was involved.

I have said several times that POWERade may not be doing a good job of taking full advantage of its sponsorship. However, keep in mind that most of us here only see what they are or are not doing that is aimed at the public. But a large part of sponsorships is how you use the sponsorship to deal with key decision makers who can have a significant impact on sales.

For example, is POWERade using the races as hospitality vehicles for retail store buyers? Is the company using drag racing in incentive programs, for both its own and third-party salespeople? There are a lot of ways that companies can use sponsorships that are not evident to the general public. Do we know for sure that POWERade is not doing that?

Do any of us know what POWERade's goals are for the sponsorship? Does the company look at drag racing as a way to create broad market attention or as a way to reach one specific target audience? If it is the latter, why would the company spend money on broad-based promotion that goes beyond its scope of its goals.

I read a comment earlier in this thread by someone who made the point that the people at Winston loved motorsports. That was fine for the time. But reality now is that the opportunities to attract only sponsors who love racing is very limited and becomes more limited every day. Corporate executives no longer have the ability to spend money on sponsorships because they love racing. Instead, they have to be able to demonstrate ROI for every dollar they spend. Executives are held accountable more now than they were in the past, both by their bosses, boards of directors, analysts and shareholders.

The exception is privately-held companies where the CEOs can do what they want. Right now, a lot of drag racing is being held in place by two such individuals. But for rest of the large sponsors, drag racing is a marketing communications vehicle, not a sport.


Because Powerade does nothing in the way of marketing their involvement with NHRA they have pigeonholed that investment with no potential for growth.

As for marketing its involvement with NHRA, that only has value if NHRA promotes its own brand name to be something of value to the general public. To make the comparison with NASCAR once again, sponsors do not market their involvement with NASCAR in order to promote NASCAR. They do it because they want to take advantage of the brand equity that NASCAR has built for itself.

Jim
 
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A lot of great opions and civil too, well done as I have enjoyed reading all 6 pages.

I believe there are some simple points to make.

Reporting. All I ask is to be told the truth. Good or Bad, I can make that decision for myself. I have read Mr. Asher's work for years and I can tell you his work is the truth as he knows it. Perfect? no but neither is his audience.

Winston. We all compare what is being done now to the Winston era because they set the standard for doing it right. Once you know how to do it right, it is easy to spot those that have been doing it poorly, wrongly or simply no effort. Yes I am talking about the NHRA. Promotion is the life blood of any sport. Don't promote it and it will slowly die.

Powerade. Yes their main responsibility is their return on their intial investment, HOWEVER basic marketing 101 will tell you that if you work with your situation and promote it, the returns will multiply due to product or brand awarness. Look at it this way, Powerade spends money on promotion anyway then why don't they include NHRA drag racing in the promotions? Not saying to spend any more money just allocate some of the money to drag racing?

Yeah I am an old timer been racing for about 45 years and I have seen them come and go and from simple observation the Winston era was the best. It is too bad that the people in charge do not have the love for the sport at the same level as their love of money. They have lost the understandng that they are custodins of the sport and through their lack of promotion they have been neglecting their duties.

of course this is just my opinion.
jim
 
In talking race sponsorship I hadn't considered that oit was being done at fire sale rates. In that case I understand what you are saying.

The question to ask is why is race sponsorship being done at fire-sale rates?

The answer: Because NHRA has not done enough to promote its brand name to the point where sponsors will ante up the big bucks to be involved in it.

Jim
 
Winston. We all compare what is being done now to the Winston era because they set the standard for doing it right.

Winston may have set the standard as far as racers are concerned. One thing we do not know is how the involvement paid off for Winston on an ROI basis. What was the company's sales increase as a result of its sponsorship of NHRA? How did the ROI from that sponsorship compare to the ROI it could have obtained had it taken the same amount of money and used it in other marketing vehicles?

HOWEVER basic marketing 101 will tell you that if you work with your situation and promote it, the returns will multiply due to product or brand awarness. Look at it this way, Powerade spends money on promotion anyway then why don't they include NHRA drag racing in the promotions? Not saying to spend any more money just allocate some of the money to drag racing?

Basic marketing 101 says to spend you money where it will get you the greatest return. Perhaps POWERade does not use drag racing in its store promotions, etc., because it has calculated that the ROI for such expenditures would be better if it used the same dollars elsewhere. You also need to look at POWERade's primary customers and how they would respond to the use of drag racing in promotions. Would it interest them or would they respond with a ho-hum attitude? Or would it be a negative for them?

The way to get more sponsors interested in using drag racing as a vehicle is to build drag racing to the point where it supplies an ROI that cannot be ignored.

Jim
 
Most of you are still thinking from the angle that Powerade wants this to be a profitable sponsorship.

Not all business is meant to make profit. This doesn't mean that we have to like or appreciate a situation, but it is a fact.
 
... Perhaps POWERade does not use drag racing in its store promotions, etc., because it has calculated that the ROI for such expenditures would be better if it used the same dollars elsewhere. ...
Then why be involved with NHRA at all?

Powerade is "the name" in the greatest drag racing entertainment available. And yet they don't feel the need to promote that fact? I'll ask again... what's the point of their involvement?

Registered member said:
If you think McDonald's gets involved in cross promotions to build ticket sales for a movie, you are kidding yourself. McDonald's only gets involved in cross promotions with movies it believes are going to have a large audience and gain a lot of attention in the media.
Jim,

You act as if the two are mutually exclusive! The cross promotion aspect is mutually beneficial only if both parties actively promote the partnership.

1. NHRA waves the Powerade banner and more drag racing fans buy Powerade.
2. Powerade promotes its involvment with NHRA driving more fans to NHRA, who buy more Powerade.

Except #2 never happens...

What Powerade has done with their investment with NHRA is tantamount to putting your money under the mattress and hoping it grows.
 
Jim you can not compare any form of motorsports sponsorship to any other form of sponsorship or advertisment....

Motorsports marketing is done for brand exposure..but.. its mainly done for the brand loyalty that comes from the fans... Proven fact for years .. motorsports fans are more loyal to sponsors products than any other sport or advertising venue....

if the NHRA is selling their sport at cut rate prices.. then maybe the NHRA doesn't have faith in what they are selling.....or maybe..just maybe the sportsman ranks are worth more than they will admit...income wise...which might explain why they kept those rights under the NHRa fold...
 
Powerade decided that their inital money buying title rights made good business sense. But. I'll say it again since I think you missed it the first time: They have no responsibility to do any further marketing.

Correct. We agree.


HOWEVER, much larger companies than they have found that their effort and dollars are magnified tremendously whenever they tie in the sponsorship to marketing in other channels than the true believers.

Again, correct. We agree.


That fact is what makes the difference between Winston and Powerade. Winston didn't have to do the leveraging they did, but look at what it did for them - and most importantly - the sport.

The most important thing for a sponsor company is not to do what's best for the sport. The most important thing -- and the only thing -- for a sponsor company to do is to do what is best for the shareholders of that company.

Now, look at what it did for Winston....I have no idea what it did for them. Nor, I believe, does anyone else who has commented in this thread. Do we know what the return on investment was for Winston for all the money it spent in NHRA?

Do we know how the results the company received compared to the results received from other marketing activities the company participated in? Are we sure that Winston would not have achieved a better ROI if hit had spent that money elsewhere instead of using it to support racing?


Do you think the modern tower complexes helped drag racing tracks look more legitimate than when the standard was a plywood 20 x 20 building? Winston is responsible for most of them. No, they had no responsibliity to finance them. But along with the big Winston graphics, they were prescient enough to realize that what helped drag racing grow would make their investment be worth much more than what they loaned the tracks.

Again, you are assuming that Winston got a payback from that. Do you know what the ROI was for its expenditures? I can't help but wonder what the reaction from Winston's board would be today if it tried to spend a lot of money to support the growth of any sport. I think the analysts and large shareholders would be going after executives who did so.

You're begging the question. Please re-read my original post and show me where I stated that Powerade had that responsibility.

Dan, we agree on a lot of this stuff. My thoughts in this thread have been in response to Jon Asher's column. I just went back and reread it and some of his comparisons with Winston are, at best, irrelevant.

Why does it matter how many reps POWERade has at the track vs. how many Winston had there? Reps at the track are not going to sell POWERade in the stores. Why does it matter if Winston execs were friendlier with racers than
are the POWERade execs?

I do not believe that POWERade, or any other sponsor, should be spending its money on anything that does not contribute directly to its ROI. The company selling the sponsorship is the one responsible for building the series and delivering the product it sold, not the buyer. That's where I think that Jon Asher is misplacing the blame.

Jim
 
Powerade is "the name" in the greatest drag racing entertainment available. And yet they don't feel the need to promote that fact? I'll ask again... what's the point of their involvement?

You know what? None of use really knows the point of POWERade's involvement. We do not know if their goal is to market solely to the fans at the track. We do not know if they want the TV exposure. We don't know if the company's goal is to use drag racing as a hospitality vehicle for retail store buyers and other VIPs. Without knowing the company's goals, none of us can say if they are or are not achieving them. Sure, there is more that they can do. But the money it would cost to do those other activities may not help the company achieve its goals.

You act as if the two are mutually exclusive! The cross promotion aspect is mutually beneficial only if both parties actively promote the partnership.

1. NHRA waves the Powerade banner and more drag racing fans buy Powerade.
2. Powerade promotes its involvment with NHRA driving more fans to NHRA, who buy more Powerade.

Except #2 never happens...


Cross promotion does not mean promoting each others products. Cross promotion is using one product as a vehicle to promote another.

Let's go back to your McDonald's - movie example. McDonald's does not get involved in cross promotion deals to help sell movie tickets. The company does not get involved in cross promotion deals with movies that need help selling tickets.

The movie producers are not looking for help selling tickets. Rather, they have a movie that is projected to be a blockbuster and they take advantage of that by selling McDonald's the right to use the movie in its promotions.

The mutual benefit is that McDonald's gets to take advantage of a blockbuster movie and the movie producers get a large chunk of cash upfront. The bigger the movie is projected to be, the more money the producers charge McDonald's. The producers do not expect McDonald's to help them sell tickets.

Sponsorships are the same thing. One party has a known product and can provide a set of benefits with that product. The other side pays a fee to attach its name to the product and to use the product name in its efforts. The more valuable the product owner (NHRA) makes its product, the more it can get for the sponsorship.

Jim
 
Jim you can not compare any form of motorsports sponsorship to any other form of sponsorship or advertisment....

Yes you can. Motorsports sponsorships, event sponsorships, print advertising, TV advertising and all other forms of advertising have one purpose: Sell product.


Motorsports marketing is done for brand exposure

As is TV advertising, other event sponsorships and other forms of advertising.


..but.. its mainly done for the brand loyalty that comes from the fans... Proven fact for years .. motorsports fans are more loyal to sponsors products than any other sport or advertising venue....

Motorsports organizations like to claim this is true, but the fact is that motorsports fans are no different from any other people. Motorsports fans are no more or less brand loyal than rodeo fans, baseball fans, boxing fans or any other person. Can you think of anyone more brand loyal than an Apple computer user?


Jim
 
Jon Asher - Thanks for responding

Martin Thomas -Awesome post (number 73)

I am glad that positive discussions have come on this thread. Also, I did send an e-mail to Powerade asking then if someone from marketing would care to sign up on the Mater and respond to this thread. Fat chance we'll get any response.:cool:
 
This is one of the most intelligent discussions I have ever seen. Thanks to all.
I do think PowerAde should encourage Coca Cola and companies that sell Coca Cola (such as McDonald's) to become involved in team sposnorship or special event sponsorship. It would help PowerAde immensely by building the series and adding exposure to their product.
Did anyone notice that, after the HD/Pros Series split, Messirs Compton and Light will have jobs on the profit-making professional side? One wonders, besides their own, whose interests have they protected?
. . . and a big Thank You to Dan Bennett for using the term "begging the question" properly! It is often misused, as you know Dan, and is not widely understood as a logical fallacy.
Keep it up, guys. I can't wait to read the next post.
Cheers,
Ed
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds." Ralph Waldo Emerson
 
I do think PowerAde should encourage Coca Cola and companies that sell Coca Cola (such as McDonald's) to become involved in team sposnorship or special event sponsorship.

In the 1990s, K-Mart used to sponsor a NASCAR team. After it signed the sponsorship deal, K-Mart would go to its vendors and offer to place the vendor's logo on its car for a specific number of races and feature the vendor's products on end cap displays in its stores for the corresponding number of weeks in exchange for $$. The end result was that K-Mart made back most, if not all, of its sponsorship dollar commitment and remained the primary sponsor on the car.

Jim
 
Okay, here we go again…

Jim Samuel, you’re absolutely correct in suggesting that a sponsor is “buying” a marketing “vehicle.” In other words, the whole program.

Comparing television ad time buys with motorsports sponsorship is akin to comparing those ever popular apples and oranges – they are decidedly NOT the same thing.

I completely agree that what happens at the race track is the least important thing a racer does.

Yes, I also agree that the teams should be setting up, or helping to arrange some promotional programs for their sponsors. But, there are race teams and drivers out there who, while being potentially valuable promotional tools for their sponsors, don’t have a clue about how to go about doing those things. The sponsor needs to understand the limitations of the driver he sponsors, and then work with him or her accordingly.

NHRA is already reportedly doing all they can to promote drag racing and to gain new fans. Can they do more? Undoubtedly.

POWERade may not be “responsible” for also promoting drag racing, but it’s certainly in their best interests to do so, because NHRA has neither the experience or financial wherewithal to take drag racing to where it should be without assistance.

Individual team sponsorship are not the same thing as major program sponsorships, and should be judged accordingly.

Jim, if we were to take your comments at face value you’re suggesting that NASCAR is responsible for boosting Nextel (to become the Sprint Cup next year), but the exact opposite has happened. I’m on all the PR lists and the like and can assure you that Nextel has worked tirelessly to promote their involvement with NASCAR. In fact, they have done far more to promote that involvement than NASCAR has in touting Nextel’s involvement with them.

You can’t throw terms like “ROI” out there without explaining it means “Return On Investment.”

I addressed ROI in that column when I wrote that Winston had generated 4 million new customers from their involvement with drag racing and 8 million through their involvement with NASCAR. The difference between the programs was that their NASCAR involvement cost them five times what it cost them to go drag racing, so their ROI was better from drag racing than from stock car racing.

Sorry, Jim, but when a sponsor signs on with either a racer or a program they do so with the knowledge that they bear some responsibility for maximizing that sponsorship’s value. It doesn’t automatically fall on the team or entity sponsored.

I’m sure everyone has at least heard of what at one time was called the “Coca-Cola Family of Drivers,” or something very close to that. Each driver on that program had what appeared to be a 12- to 18-inch circular decal on their cars. Multiple sources within the NASCAR community have told me those decals were worth $5 million each. Now, I acknowledge that hearing it does not make it so, but the point is that if Coca-Cola can spend that much on decal money, certainly they can do more for drag racing.

But, let’s go back. In Mr. Samuel’s scenario the DRIVERS should have been doing the work to promote their affiliation with Coke. That didn’t happen. It was COKE that produced all of the cute supporting television and print ads. In other words, Coca-Cola paid the money to the drivers and then spent even more touting their involvement with those drivers.

William Groom makes a valid point. Drag racing just isn’t as big as we would like it to be, and we have to be realistic about that.

Jay Rathman must be reading my mind. I tell every racer who asks me to help them find a sponsor this little story: If you undervalue yourself and your race team, the sponsor is never going to get you up to the financial value you need. Consider it this way. Once that hooker climbs into the back seat of your car and “performs,” what’s your incentive for taking her to the penthouse suite at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas? You already know what she can do and you know what she charges.

It’s the same with your race team. If you know you need $2.5 million to run your car and you know you’re “worth” that much because you can generate enough publicity to justify the expenditure, why would you accept $1 million for the deal?

As far as Fuller and others of a similar nature are concerned (and this is a TEAM problem, NOT Fuller’s), see the above paragraphs.

Rathman is also correct in stating that ESPN does almost nothing to promote drag racing during its other telecasts.

Jay, I just reached your additional post and you have completely misunderstood my intention, which was definitely not to discredit you in an way, shape or form. If you took what I wrote as a personal affront I herewith offer a formal apology.

I’ll make my initial point again. I’m not disputing you or the source of your information, but not having seen those contracts personally it means that your information is second hand and therefore not provable. I’m not suggesting that anyone lied to you either, but if I hadn’t personally seen the contracts, or didn’t have at least two absolutely reliable sources, sources with actual “connections,” and not something someone supposedly said to someone else, I wouldn’t consider that reliable information.

RE: Jim Samuel’s comment about sponsorships, “Because NHRA has not done enough to promote its brand name where sponsors will ante up the big bucks to be involved with it,” it goes deeper than that. NHRA does not have enough belief in the value of their properties to hold the line on price. And as I said early on, if they did have a firm belief in that value, if a potential sponsor offered less than they felt was the “right” price for a title rights they’d say no deal and the event would take place without one.

Corporate people talk. Oh, yes they do. Even business rivals go to the same conventions, the same industry dinners and the same golf courses. Don’t you think they also discuss sponsorships from time to time? And what do you think the reaction is when Executive A casually mentions he just spent less than six figures to buy the title rights to Event X, and the guy he’s telling this to knows his company just spent hundreds of thousands more for a similar race?

When you sell yourself for less than you’re worth the long term negative results are huge.

Georginna Polson also makes a good point. There are other reasons to get into sponsorships beyond simple quantifiable ROI.

Greg Stanley is also correct with his second point.

Jon Asher
 
Jon.. fantastic post.....

Three basic rules of what advertising is and is for...

1. Brand awareness
2. Brand Loyalty
3. Maintain Brands market share and possibly increase market share (basicly remind the public you are still there)

When i did contract negotiaions with several Cup and Busch teams during the 90's. RJR actualy came to us and offered to help for no extra fee what so ever.... the first piece of advice they gave us ..What ever the cost of placeing the company name on any vehicle or with any organization was..expect to match it in funds for promotion on our part to make the venture plyable.... basicly.. in generalization... $500k to get a associate on a car... we need to spend $500k in market promotion and out of market promotion... which included program ads, track displays etc in conjuction with events.. and.. within our market.. which was sportswear... use the afilitation to promote the sponsorship at apperal conventions trade zines retailers etc... all the extra was needed to get the greatest return on the investment.....

Case in point... we were involved with the Sox & Martin Reunion in the mid 90's.. we had our name on the car.. and we printed the t-shirts for sale at the events...but the company did not follow the rules and do aditional promotion and the deal fell flat.. no response from our cutomers.. curent or possible future.....

Now what got the company involved in Motorsports?... i did... i talked them into sponsoring a Legend car driver friend of mine that was headed to Arizona for the Legend and Sprint car races that were televised then TNN... the deal was worth $2000... myself and our head of marketing put together a mailer to all our customers on our mailing list.....cost.. $500 in postage and materials... lucky for us ..he WON on tv the first night.... by monday we recived over 1500 phone calls for info on the company products .. all new customers... and half our reps wanted to know if the racer was coming near them ... the response was so great the president of the comany asked if he could race the last two races....we sent him another $3000 to stay and race... he did he got more tv time.... all total.. according to the Joyce Julis report we recieved what was equal to $75,000 worth of tv time.... it got the company hooked.. but ...

When it came to the Cup/Busch deals and the Sox & Martin deal they did not follow the advice to follow up with aditional promotions to make it continue to work for the comapny.. it all fell flat... and did no good... most drag race fans never even knew were were part of the Reunion tour.... lack of follow thru...

the extra effort and money would have made all the difference in the world...

Billy
 
Jim,

You've deflated your own argument with this example. There are hundreds of examples of cross promotion between entities to their mutual benefits... McDonalds pays for product placement in a movie or show, the producers of the movie or show do in-store promotions at McDonald's advertising their movie/show. Each situation drives customers to both enterprises.

Jay's point is very clear. Powerade made a marketing investment with NHRA but has failed to leverage that investment by promoting their involvement... if not for NHRA trumpeting the Powerade banner, no one would know that Powerade was involved. Because Powerade does nothing in the way of marketing their involvement with NHRA they have pigeonholed that investment with no potential for growth.

CONGRADULATION!!!! You get it...GRAND SLAM!!!!
 
Most of you are still thinking from the angle that Powerade wants this to be a profitable sponsorship.

Not all business is meant to make profit. This doesn't mean that we have to like or appreciate a situation, but it is a fact.

That has to be the dumbest thing I have ever heard....
 
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