Jim O- Fix the Traps
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BaldyLochs
Nitro Member
This story does a good job of shedding light on how many different factors truly are involved in all this. Jim is absolutely correct - it's not just the tracks.
mick
Nitro Member
sydney net system identical to
what Paul T. has described in a couple different threads since
the seattle event.........net strapped to movable weight.
although entire shutdown area is not shown in pics, appears
drag strip ends with sand trap, then at point of net the
walls are spaced wider and tire lined offering second sand trap
beyond net to obvious wall of tires/embankment.
design is fairly new as it does not show on 2007 google image.
what Paul T. has described in a couple different threads since
the seattle event.........net strapped to movable weight.
although entire shutdown area is not shown in pics, appears
drag strip ends with sand trap, then at point of net the
walls are spaced wider and tire lined offering second sand trap
beyond net to obvious wall of tires/embankment.
design is fairly new as it does not show on 2007 google image.
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Sean D, shondoo
Nitro Member
That doesn't look bad, Lance. The only input I would have would be some sort of barrier/net over the top from the entry of the sand/gravel througout. Too many times the cars hit the sand and the nose digs in, causing the car to go end-over-end. If the barrier was all-encapsulating, the car couldn't get over the wall if it started cart-wheeling like so many seem to do.
Sean D
Sean D
stinky
Nitro Member
The movable weight attached to the net, is similar to an arresting cable assembly used to capture aircraft aboard an aircraft carrier. They use hydraulic cylinders to be able to adjust the resistance pressure needed for different weight of aircraft.
Why couldn't we use a large hydraulic style cylinder and use water in it that when the cylinder is pulled, the water would escape through a large valve that can be opened or closed more to allow for different flow rates. That would be able to accommodate different weights and speeds of vehicles on the fly.
The cylinders could then be emptied and transported to the next race facility very economically because you aren't transporting the water.
Why couldn't we use a large hydraulic style cylinder and use water in it that when the cylinder is pulled, the water would escape through a large valve that can be opened or closed more to allow for different flow rates. That would be able to accommodate different weights and speeds of vehicles on the fly.
The cylinders could then be emptied and transported to the next race facility very economically because you aren't transporting the water.
JRW
Nitro Member
Here's my idea on shutting down these cars. Seriously, am I way off base here?
man that thing looks like the concorde!
Meeks
Nitro Member
After reading several articles and thinking about the situtations that have come up throughout competition in national events over the last few years I have a question: who makes the decisions over at NHRA? I honestly feel like Graham Light needs to go. I'm not saying that simply because he has pissed me and several others off in the recent past but he really comes across as the type that is just there to get paid and leave, he doesn't really care about what happens to this sport as long as he gets his paycheck at the end of the day, week, month or however he gets paid. I don't know about the rest of you but I want someone who's passionate about drag racing and ensuring the safety of drivers.
After reading the article with Jim O's comments Light comes across as saying "Oh well, sh*t happens". They should have been working on those traps BEFORE Scott Kalitta's crash. Okay, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that there might not have been as big of a question because things hadn't happened yet but after Kalitta's crash things should have changed drastically and I don't mean just going to 1000ft. Then Alexis crashed and things were all better in their minds. Here we are in July and two deaths have occurred within one month of each other. I'm sorry but things should be changing in those sand traps RIGHT NOW not when they damn well feel like it. I don't give a crap if those nets worked well before, they sure aren't working anymore so as Jim O said, get off your asses and do something about it.
So my question is, is there anyway that the drag racing community can get this guy thrown out of his position? I know it sounds extreme but what else do you all think would be a good solution? Just think back to the drama of the safety, the pro stock problems, and everything else thats gone on in the last few years? Is this guy really the answer to NHRA? I'm open to hearing what everyone else thinks and maybe I'm way out of line but just thought I'd open it up to see if other's are thinking along the same lines as me.
After reading the article with Jim O's comments Light comes across as saying "Oh well, sh*t happens". They should have been working on those traps BEFORE Scott Kalitta's crash. Okay, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that there might not have been as big of a question because things hadn't happened yet but after Kalitta's crash things should have changed drastically and I don't mean just going to 1000ft. Then Alexis crashed and things were all better in their minds. Here we are in July and two deaths have occurred within one month of each other. I'm sorry but things should be changing in those sand traps RIGHT NOW not when they damn well feel like it. I don't give a crap if those nets worked well before, they sure aren't working anymore so as Jim O said, get off your asses and do something about it.
So my question is, is there anyway that the drag racing community can get this guy thrown out of his position? I know it sounds extreme but what else do you all think would be a good solution? Just think back to the drama of the safety, the pro stock problems, and everything else thats gone on in the last few years? Is this guy really the answer to NHRA? I'm open to hearing what everyone else thinks and maybe I'm way out of line but just thought I'd open it up to see if other's are thinking along the same lines as me.
Smiley
Nitro Member
I was thinking the XB70 Valkyrie, but yeah you're right.
What would happen if 2 cars entered the trap at the same time?
Rajunz
Nitro Member
You would have to ask that same question about the current sand traps, or the ones proposed above with the straps..........
hopefully with this chute, they would both scrub off enough speed....
clwill
Nitro Member
The chain of command at NHRA is pretty clear. Light reports to Compton who reports to the board. The board is composed of the few shareholders and anyone they so choose. Any voting is solely among shareholders, a clear list of whom I've never seen. So the answer to your question is "no", only Compton or the board can force a change.
My question is, what do these guys do on any given day? You see Compton hobnobbing with sponsors every now and then. You see Light show up on TV to try to explain their Magic-8-Ball rulings every now and then. But what happens the other 4-5 days a week? What are they doing? Are they working hard on safety ("dedicated to safety")? Are they seriously working to enlarge the sponsor pool? Are they working their butts off marketing the sport? It seems, admittedly from rather long distance from Glendora, like the answer is "no" there too...
clwill
Nitro Member
I think Lance's idea looks very interesting. But holy cow, enclosing this from the top would be a nightmare for the safety teams to try to get in there. What if there's a fire, or a near-death medical situation. Maybe higher walls, but please, don't enclose the whole thing...
Paul
Nitro Member
Mikaela, Chris is correct, unfortunately given the current structure of the NHRA, unlike most "real" companies, there are no checks and balances in place in the NHRA, even if one of the NHRA board members performs really poorly the only way he can be replaced is by agreement of the other board members.
Chris, some corrections about what your wrote though, the NHRA is still a 501(c)-6 non-profit organization. It has no shares of stock and can have no private ownership. The NHRA completely owns all its current assets and there are restrictions on how these assets can be sold or transferred.
The NHRA is thus currently totally controlled by its current appointed board of directors and there are no "hidden" board members, its Compton and the rest of the crew. They don't own the NHRA but they totally control it.
In most 501(c)-6 non-profits, the board members are elected by the members of the organization, and this used to be the case in the NHRA. If this was still true then poorly performing board members could be replaced via voting by the NHRA members.
However, several years ago the NHRA "quietly" conducted a membership vote that removed all the voting rights of NHRA members, allowing the board members alone to totally control the NHRA with essentially zero input from NHRA members. This was a strange thing to do for a non-profit organization, in particular a 501(6)-C non-profit, which is typically expected to ultimately be controlled on key issues by member voting.
I beleive it would be possible to legally challenge the validity of that membership vote that removed NHRA members voting rights, but it would be costly to do so. After probing on this a while ago I did get some input from an attorney who years back had looked into these issues. He was not optimistic on the prospects of successfully overturning the vote, but he wasn't totally black and white on the issue, the strongest statement he made was that the NHRA had "probably" conducted the membership "self-neutering" vote in a manner that was legal, but he couldn't specifically state that that was the case. But realistically it would take somebody with some fat pockets and a hard head to fund a legal effort to attempt to overturn that membership vote.
Unless that happens unfortunately we're stuck with the current board members alone making all the decisions about the NHRA's future, including who holds the key positions.
Regarding the comments on safety improvements, I think its well past time for the NHRA to appoint a competent and dedicated safety director who's sole purpose and motivation is to insure the safety of both the racers and the spectators. Here's some more thoughts on this from another thread:
http://www.nitromater.com/nhra/25904-motorsports-problem-solving-done-right-2.html
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Paul
Nitro Member
I looked at the Jim Read safety net shown in the Oberhofer article link at the beginning of this thread and I think its a real step forward from the "hard nets" currently in use. It also looks very simple and economical to implement. It may not be the perfect way to stop an out of control car but it looks like a huge improvement from what's in place at most tracks and it would be pretty easy to put in place at existing NHRA tracks.
If the NHRA had an effective safety director in place that was actively investigating all the possible sources for safety improvements, he would have already been aware of this new net design and likely would have been moving to make use of the design at NHRA tracks.
Instead, we have Graham Light "putting his head in the sand" with comments like:
“What we have, we feel has adequately worked for many, many years"
For a safety program to be effective it must be continually evolving, particularly with the huge increase in top end speed that has occurred over these "many, many years".
Although as I described in my previous post there is no way to force the NHRA to be smarter on safety issues, perhaps the racers can pressure the NHRA to appoint a safety director that can do a more effective job than the NHRA has over the past few years.
If the NHRA had an effective safety director in place that was actively investigating all the possible sources for safety improvements, he would have already been aware of this new net design and likely would have been moving to make use of the design at NHRA tracks.
Instead, we have Graham Light "putting his head in the sand" with comments like:
“What we have, we feel has adequately worked for many, many years"
For a safety program to be effective it must be continually evolving, particularly with the huge increase in top end speed that has occurred over these "many, many years".
Although as I described in my previous post there is no way to force the NHRA to be smarter on safety issues, perhaps the racers can pressure the NHRA to appoint a safety director that can do a more effective job than the NHRA has over the past few years.
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my friends call me Zappy
Nitro Member
Here's my idea on shutting down these cars. Seriously, am I way off base here?
Lance, I like the basic idea, but how long is your trap??? Don't forget one of the problems for the tracks is not enough land.
clwill
Nitro Member
Paul, you keep saying this over and over again. That's simply not true. The 501(c) structure doesn't prevent shares or ownership, it simply dictates what happens to the profits. Profits can't inure to the benefit of the shareholders, they have to be reinvested to the benefit of the organization or be donated. That's it. 501(c) organizations are only "non-profit" in the sense that the shareholders can't profit, that's about it. They are corporations in every other sense of the word.
Rajunz
Nitro Member
I haven't looked at the math of how this would be built, it's just an idea I've had in my head for a few months, it would probably need to be longer than the current sand traps to get the tapers to work. I'm sure a computer model could expalin alot.
