Nitromater

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It never fails.....

Toejam

Nitro Member
To Amaze me how many times I and everybody else has heard about NHRA's demise, since the Mid 90's it was going to be the Cost of Fuel car racing, that kids dont have an interest in cars, that ticket prices are to high, Im sure others can think of another...and yet the TF/FC fields are full every race! :rolleyes:
 
You do realize that of the 32 car nitro fields, it's roughly 15 owners that represent all those cars. In the mid 90's it was more like 30 owners for 32 cars. That doesn't account for the ones that did not qualify. You're lucky to have 3 non qualifiers these days. There used to be 20-25 cars show up to make the show. That's why qualifying days were the best, to see all the cars run. If you go on eliminations you see 30 nitro passes as they widdle the field away. If you went for qualifying, over the 2 sessions you got nearly 50 nitro passes. The schedule is so easily streamlined these days because they don't have near the amount of cars headed down the track in any class like they used to. Kids don't have an interest in cars these days. Auto manufacturers even realize that. Ticket prices are fine. A slice of pizza and a coke costing 10 dollars sucks, but that is every sports event. NHRA isn't going to just wake up one morning and shut its doors, its going to die a slow painful death that plays out before your eyes in person and on ESPN.
 
All you gotta do is look in the stands... compare today to the mid 90's. I guess I don't have the numbers, I'm just a keyboard critic who only sees what I can see through the TV porthole.

You could squash the argument, or add relevance to it if you had access to attendance numbers over the past 30 years or so.
 
You do realize that of the 32 car nitro fields, it's roughly 15 owners that represent all those cars. In the mid 90's it was more like 30 owners for 32 cars. That doesn't account for the ones that did not qualify. You're lucky to have 3 non qualifiers these days. There used to be 20-25 cars show up to make the show. That's why qualifying days were the best, to see all the cars run. If you go on eliminations you see 30 nitro passes as they widdle the field away. If you went for qualifying, over the 2 sessions you got nearly 50 nitro passes. The schedule is so easily streamlined these days because they don't have near the amount of cars headed down the track in any class like they used to. Kids don't have an interest in cars these days. Auto manufacturers even realize that. Ticket prices are fine. A slice of pizza and a coke costing 10 dollars sucks, but that is every sports event. NHRA isn't going to just wake up one morning and shut its doors, its going to die a slow painful death that plays out before your eyes in person and on ESPN.

Well we all know who started the Multi-car craze don't we? Sure Larry Minor had a two car team in the 80's and WJ with Scott Geoffrion in the early 90's. But once JFR added a 2nd car with Tony, other teams followed suit. Then Force added a 3rd car and the rest is history! I have learned most of the Doom Sayers don't even go to the races anymore...
 
To Amaze me how many times I and everybody else has heard about NHRA's demise, since the Mid 90's it was going to be the Cost of Fuel car racing, that kids dont have an interest in cars, that ticket prices are to high, Im sure others can think of another...and yet the TF/FC fields are full every race! :rolleyes:

Maybe this will clear it up for you.
Quoting the movie "The Right Stuff"
"No bucks, no Buck Rogers".

Burying ones head in the sand won't undo the changing needs for the sports sponsors only real number that matters..
ROI.
 
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Maybe this will clear it up for you.
Quoting the movie "The Right Stuff"
"No bucks, no Buck Rogers".

The bucks, the fans, the drivers, the team owners, the sponsors, and now the backbone, the factory money is walking out the door slowly, and now faster.
Burying ones head in the sand won't undo the changing needs for the sports sponsors only real number that matters..
ROI.

And how many years have we been hearing that?
 
And how many years have we been hearing that?

I guess it's up for debate, but I think I pointed out my reasonings in the Force thread.


The NHRA is dying a slow and drawn out death, but it definitely will die. Sooner, rather than later, like within the next 10-12 years.

Nascar might survive longer, but it will be gone at some point also. You need hundreds of thousands of rabid fans to make financial sense to the sponsors. I don't think I have to clear up the fact that it isn't 1980's-1990's attendance at the track anymore, and this is 2013.
Can you see those sub compacts of 2025 trading paint at Bristol? I don't.

If you look ahead 10 years, what do you see?
The kids of today are not like my, or our generation. There is no Ford vs. GM.
If there is any decision criteria in todays youth, it's more about efficiency, definitely which is "greener" or maybe who took TARP money, and who didn't.
You cant work on the cars of today to create some interest in performance, and even if you could, the interest has shifted away from power, and focuses on green and clean.
There are no back yard groups of motorheads tuning up a big block. They are more interested in saving the planet. I don't think Nitro enters their thoughts.
My son couldn't care less about car brands, or how they work. At 17, he didn't even know which automaker build his Jeep because he doesn't care. My daughters boyfriend doesn't care either, as long as the gas mileage is good, he's good with what he's driving.

Look at the grand stands and see the slow, but consistent draw down.
When this generation of gear heads runs it's course, the next generation will be non existent, and FMC, Castrol, Bud, and a long list of future ex sponsors will follow. Big business became big because their PR focuses on what's coming, and not what's here. Their money will be invested in the next generation's interests to get out their message, and dirty motorsports isn't it.
Aside from the next generations lack of interest in automobiles, FORD just walked on you.
Does that not give a clear message?
 
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And how many years have we been hearing that?

I don't think anyone is really disputing that actual statement, because you're right, we HAVE been hearing that for years.

But you seem to be in denial of the decline. Yeah, we're still around, but as others have said, the numbers are down. The entrants, the fans, the sponsors, ALL of them. You keep pounding on this, "we still have full fields" argument. Yeah, the fields are usually full, but the fact of the matter is, there used to be a he!! of a lot more cars trying to make the show than there are now. Back in the day, many events had 10+ alternates, but Indy is the only place that seems to be able to make that happen. Why can't every event be like Indy in terms of participation from both a competitor standpoint as well as fan and sponsors? We all know the answer(s) to that question because we've beat them to death on here for years. ALL of them.

To say the sport needs help is a gross understatment.

Sean D
 
And how many years have we been hearing that?

And how many years has it been in decline? Looks pretty obvious to me that the whole NHRA deal is rolling down hill. Like earlier posters have said, and I too believe, it is dying a slow death. Unfortunately it is mirroring a lot of stuff in this country. And I sure hate it.:mad:
 
Might the reason for full fields be that if there are full fields is that everyone who qualifies gets a check? Therefore you see fields at or slightly above 16 everywhere.

Theoretically, I could show up with a fuel car on Friday, start it and coast to the finish line Friday morning.. then put it away and collect $10,000* on Sunday right?

I'd probably stage it on Sunday just in case the other guy redlit or something, get even more money.

*I read this figure somewhere and don't know how accurate it is. Also, I would guess it costs more then $10,000 to show up and make a pass, so the lesser funded teams aren't in it to make a profit... however without that guaranteed $10,000 I bet some of those teams would find it cost prohibitive to show up and make a go at it - and you would not have full fields anymore.
 
Here is part of a Dragracingonline.com interview with Dan Olson.

::: DRO ::: A Conversation with Dan Olson

DRO: Aren’t these engines closer to 10,000 horsepower than the estimated 7,000 or 8,000 horsepower that is publicized?
DO: Probably.

DRO: So it’s setting up limitations on power while keeping in mind what that does to the racing budget?
DO: Right. Basically what’s happened is we’ve driven up the cost per run… probably doubled it, might even be more. Before we were getting maybe 15 runs off of a crankshaft, now we are getting four to seven runs. On the rods we were having to cycle rods out after 20 or 25 runs. You just throw them out. Now I’m not saying you get that kind of life out of every rod, but most guys were capable of getting many runs out of a set of rods, and pistons were lasting a long time.

DRO: So that’s freezing out the smaller teams?
DO: Absolutely. Soon we are not going to have anyone out here but Schumacher, Kalitta and Torco cars. Bernstein makes his living from racing, Prudhomme makes his living by racing and there’s only a handful of these guys left. But eventually they aren’t going to take money out of their wallet. The biggest thing we have to do is -- it’s not just me -- but as a group, this is the direction we need to go to get the costs back down. Trust me, when the costs keep where it is right now, look at it a year from now and instead of twenty teams out here it’ll keep shrinking.

DRO: To eight-car fields?
DO: Yes, you can see for yourself in the past 20 years you used to see 25 to 30 cars out here at Pomona not too many years ago. We used to have a lot of local, southern California people come out here to race, but not any more. Mike Chrisman is about the only one, he was the only one that I can think of. And that’s not good for the sport because we won’t have a sport, then pretty quick you’ll have six cars showing up all owned by one team owner, and they don’t want that, nobody wants that.
You know 25 or 30 years ago if you worked you could afford to have a Top Fuel car. My first Top Fuel car, my wife worked and I worked, and I took my money and went racing on it. You can’t even think about doing that now. And you didn’t have to win to support it either. We’d run a few rounds and with a little help you could run a Top Fuel car, but that’s back when we had 150 cars. You could run at Irwindale, Long Beach another night, Carlsbad another night, but those were the good old days you know. If we are not careful, I mean us, I’m talking about everybody as a group, pretty quick it will be so expensive and do so much damage that if you don’t have brand new fresh parts for every run you aren’t going to be competitive. That’s when it will go back to the Forces and the Schumachers who’ll be the only guys who can afford to race.

DRO: Do you have a pretty good idea of the direction you want to go with changes?
DO: Yeah, I’ve got a good sense, but what I’m going to do is sit down with the Coils, the Fedderlys, Alan Johnson, Cerney, but sit down and talk to everybody, after we talk to come up a group of people with a direction, to say OK, let’s test this or go in this direction. But you know it’s just like running a car: we make this change, but you don’t think well **** it changed this also. What I’m saying is we need to make it a change, that we can make it in a direction we can continue with, to think about it enough to be sure we don’t get ourselves into a worse situation than we already are now.

DRO: Is this something you will try to implement before the new season?
DO: I think it would probably be pretty hard to do before then, but the sooner we get going and can implement it at any given time, it’s got to happen is a short period of time. Whether it’s 85% or 90%, we have to do it.

DRO: The Goodyear tires have caught back up?
DO: Yes the tires are good, they are pretty darn safe. We are not having any issues and most teams are not having any issues, so I think the tire is there. We don’t need to get back into that either. A problem with the tire only happens when we have an extremely good condition like we had Thursday and Friday. . .you know, night conditions. The tires on the whole as far as I know are really good, I mean everything looks good.

And that was from November 20th, 2006! Just change TORCO to Lucas and Qatar and it's the same thing. Everyone loves to talk, nobody loves to take action.
 
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And how many years has it been in decline? Looks pretty obvious to me that the whole NHRA deal is rolling down hill. Like earlier posters have said, and I too believe, it is dying a slow death. Unfortunately it is mirroring a lot of stuff in this country. And I sure hate it.:mad:

Well doesn't seem to be much any of us can do about it is there? Everybody seems to have that magic wand to make NHRA Drag racing a success overnight! You all act like NHRA is holding a gun to your head to show up at the track! maybe following NASCAR or your local Dirt track is in the cards for some of you, there are always other things to spend your money on!

For the record...I wasn't singling you out Mike per say, just the attitude of the average fan!
 
I hate it too.
Joe, as much as I hate pointing it out, it's what's happening.

Well then the sport is Doomed and there ain't anything you or I can do about it! Case Closed..:confused: I'm curious how many races if any you all go to every year? Complaining about a sport you don't support makes no sense IMO!
 
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Well then the sport is Doomed and there ain't anything you or I can do about it! Case Closed..:confused: I'm curious how many races if any you all go to every year? Complaining about a sport you don't support makes no sense IMO!

Whoa,
It's not us who are dooming the sport. Read a little more slowly, and you will understand what I am saying.
 
Seems like we have multiple threads with the same theme. Joe, you're a diehard, like me, but you have to look at facts. It's not just the pros. I've been going to Indy since my dad ran Comp in the 60s-70s. There used to be around 100 cars trying to get in the year's only 64 car field. The last 2 years I believe were barely full fields. This isn't all NHRA, the economy is a huge part. But, again, there are things that need to be done to preserve and strengthen the future.
 
Well doesn't seem to be much any of us can do about it is there? Everybody seems to have that magic wand to make NHRA Drag racing a success overnight! You all act like NHRA is holding a gun to your head to show up at the track! maybe following NASCAR or your local Dirt track is in the cards for some of you, there are always other things to spend your money on!

For the record...I wasn't singling you out Mike per say, just the attitude of the average fan!

I truly am afraid that the reasons it is going down hill is mostly out of the hands of me and any other fan. And for the record it is all forms of motorsports----and the reasons number in at least the dozens. I see lots of downturn in my business (restoration parts and supplies) and attribute most of it to a soft economy. But cultural changes, as have been beaten to death on this board, also contribute to the problem. And its not just NHRA--look at all the empty NASCAR seats. Bristol night race used to be the toughest ticket in NASCAR, but not anymore. Bottom line, in my humble opinion, is the economy and money related issues. You finally get to where you price yourself out of the market. If you only have "X" dollars to spend, you place it first where it is most needed. A gallon of milk will beat out a hot rod part most of the time, as a buddy of mine says. NHRA is in the same boat as NASCAR, Super Chevy, ADRL, IHRA, and all the other groups putting on motorsports events. Their costs are through the roof just like yours and mine. I get sticker shock everytime I go with the wife to Wal Mart to buy groceries. None of this happened overnight---it occured over a long period of time. And there are no miricle fixes---if there are any fixes at all.
 
Fuel for the debate:

1983: 12 NHRA national events (six of which had 8 car fields) No bikes. No Pro Mod.

2013: 24 NHRA national events (all 16 car fields) Bikes at 16 races, Pro Mod at 10.

As for car counts:

1983 Season
Pomona 24 TF, 24 FC, 20 PS
Gainesville 18, 25, 24
Atlanta 12, 17, 17
Baton Rouge 11, 16, 9
Columbus 19, 23, 29
Montreal 8, 14, 10
Englishtown 17, 22, 21
Denver 16, 16, 16
Brainerd 9, 19, 19
Indy 22, 33, 23
Fremont 19,17,14
OCIR 24, 24, 23

No matter what you may think of the car counts, I think anyone who was at any of these races could agree the facilities have come a long long way.

For the record, not really trying to imply anything specific here. Just pointing out a few numbers for the sake of comparison.
 
Fuel for the debate:

1983: 12 NHRA national events (six of which had 8 car fields) No bikes. No Pro Mod.

2013: 24 NHRA national events (all 16 car fields) Bikes at 16 races, Pro Mod at 10.

As for car counts:

1983 Season
Pomona 24 TF, 24 FC, 20 PS
Gainesville 18, 25, 24
Atlanta 12, 17, 17
Baton Rouge 11, 16, 9
Columbus 19, 23, 29
Montreal 8, 14, 10
Englishtown 17, 22, 21
Denver 16, 16, 16
Brainerd 9, 19, 19
Indy 22, 33, 23
Fremont 19,17,14
OCIR 24, 24, 23

No matter what you may think of the car counts, I think anyone who was at any of these races could agree the facilities have come a long long way.

For the record, not really trying to imply anything specific here. Just pointing out a few numbers for the sake of comparison.

You know what saddens me about your numbers, Kevin? No Fremont & OCIR. :(
 

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