I'm no JFR hater, but... (1 Viewer)

[Gordon]

If NHRA didn't act on this they've set a precedent that they won't in the future because I can't imagine one more blatant happening in the future. Since the rule was in effect and not enforced I lost alot of respect that day for our sanctioning body and that team. The rule looks good on paper but if its not enforced its meaningless.

The thing NHRA (and many other lawmakers for that matter, but that conversation belongs in the politics room) has lost sight of is the K.I.S.S. principle. Keep it simple, stupid. Simply stated, create enforceable rules... and then enforce them equally for everyone. Anybody who didn't see that silly memo (rule) about diving as being incredibly transparent and unenforceable is clearly blind. Lets face it - in a sport where parts breakage is common and unpredictable, proving a dive is impossible. Shred the memo, realize team orders will continue to exist and get on with your lives.

By the way, anyone wanna talk about Melanie not making the Countdown in Reading when she was Morgan's teammate?

Look, it's easy to point out perceived dives over the years - we've all got our favorites - but has anyone done the research to see how many underdogs have won rounds/races against far superior opponents where there was no possibility of team orders? It happens all the time and we applaud those victories vociferously. In fact, if I'm not mistaken, those races are the ones - at least in part - where the phrase, "that's why they don't race on paper" comes from. My point? Drag Racing is still ridiculously exciting, even if there are occasional dives. As has been mentioned previously, wanna cut down on them - then beat the guy in the other lane and prevent the opportunity in the first place. Force, love him or hate him, said it best in Indy - "My kid kicked your ass!" If Cruz wanted in, he should've beaten Ashley.

Maybe instead of the silly diving rule, NHRA should include a statement on each of their Sunday (or Monday) tickets that states, "Caution: Team Orders may result in thrown rounds between teammates competing for a spot in the Countdown to the Championship."

 

[Toejam]

+1 After all the years Greg and Jason have raced straight up, they still have to put up with this crap? It's early in the season. Both are well within the "countdown." One round win is meaningless to either in the points at this juncture. So after ten seasons together, Jason winning two P/S titles and tuning Greg to four, Sunday was the day all that changed. Sunday was the day that team orders comes to Team Summit. Really? Write about something important, Darr. Earn your check. This story doesn't pass the laugh test.

Im curious how the Powers at be at Traxxas would react should Courtney get ADD on the line with a .200 something light or her car mysteriously shuts off at 800' like T Ped's did at Pomona in '97-'98? When it comes down to the Countdown facing another Force car in the other lane??? You notice you no longer see DSR cars laying down when a Sponsor voiced his displeasure at Seattle some years back!

 

[mick]

Im curious how the Powers at be at Traxxas would react should Courtney get ADD on the line with a .200 something light or her car mysteriously shuts off at 800' like T Ped's did at Pomona in '97-'98? When it comes down to the Countdown facing another Force car in the other lane??? You notice you no longer see DSR cars laying down when a Sponsor voiced his displeasure at Seattle some years back!

although i was in favor of the traxxas events being set by racing results,
with the exception of one wildcard per class, their format does present
potential difficult situations for team cars would they meet in late rounds
with one car not qualified for the special race.
have to admit the qualifying format of the former bud shootouts let the
positions fill by single car et's.

 

[Sean D, shondoo]

Cause you see the car nose over from Greg's in car cam. That's what happens when two cylinders are dead darr, it slows.

First off, I'm a fan of KB Racing, especially now that there are going to be bowties running out of that stable. But I think it was a dive.

Bottom line, I understand everyone's point about the fact that they've raced heads-up when more was on the line, but I almost think that proves the point. There was nothing on the line in regards to points, but those of you that don't believe there was some serious value in a Camaro victory in it's debut, then I don't know what to tell you.

As for the car "laying over", well, I'm pissed that I have erased the program and can't go back to it. If the car tossed 2 valve springs, you would've seen two lay-overs; a small one when the springs let go, and a biggee when he pushed in the clutch. I just don't recall that. I remember him literally walking Greg and the car nosing over once. But I could be wrong..........

I know, Alan, that you're privy to the driver's reactions at the top end that we don't always get to see and I'm certainly envious. I just think in this particular case that Jason did a poor job of acting. It doesn't make any difference to me either way, 'cause a win is a win. I just think the importance of a debut win for the Camaro is being understated.

Sean D

 

[none]

If it had been John and Courtney in the Funny Car final and John's car did exactly what Ron's did would that have been called a dive by most on this board?

Sean, you are certainly entitled to your opinion and I respect that. Greg was about a half a mile an hour faster than Jason at the eighth mile, Jason had been faster on every other run, but Jason's car was hurt and getting worse.

The issue I have with Darr is that it wouldn't take him 2 minutes to get Greg or Jason on the phone to get some information before calling them out for diving. Don't you think a "professional journalist" should take that extra step?

Alan

 

[None]

If it had been John and Courtney in the Funny Car final and John's car did exactly what Ron's did would that have been called a dive by most on this board?

Sean, you are certainly entitled to your opinion and I respect that. Greg was about a half a mile an hour faster than Jason at the eighth mile, Jason had been faster on every other run, but Jason's car was hurt and getting worse.

The issue I have with Darr is that it wouldn't take him 2 minutes to get Greg or Jason on the phone to get some information before calling them out for diving. Don't you think a "professional journalist" should take that extra step?

Alan

I have never understood all the complaining about diving. If you are on a team, you do what is best for the team rule or no rule. If this is a problem, then NHRA needs to ban all teams, Pro and Sportsman. This will never happen. Limit Force, Kalitta, Schumacker, and Lucas in Fuel alone to one car and you are down to eight car fields. What it would do is create a lot of paper only solo teams.

Alan, how can you use the term "professional journalist" when talking about someone that works at "DRO"?

 

[TR]

Seriously? It was totally tongue in cheek...total sarcasm aimed at everyone who brings up the whole throwing a race...team orders...yada yada yada crap..

O.K. that's what I figured, this whole throwing the race stuff is really getting old, glad you were kidding.

Rick

 

[clwill]

I am admittedly not a fan of the KB racing team. I didn't purchase race parts from Summit for several years, specifically for that reason. Only their fast shipping has recently won me back for some items.

I think it stems back years ago to some of the incredibly awkward and off-putting interviews Greg did on the old NHRA TV programs from the studio in Charlotte. He just seemed to be so phony, especially during that incredible year he had a few years back where he just couldn't lose. He made it sound like he was entitled to it. I've never been able to clean that taste from my mouth...

Then you add in all the silly secrecy -- the stupid curtains in the pits, and the team just seemed cocky and like a bunch of jerks.

But it's hard to dislike Jason. He clearly has such a deep passion for the sport, and specifically for the engines, that it just drips out of every pore on his body. That's why that top end interview was so strange. He didn't seem like a guy whose lovingly-prepared engine had just cratered. He looked like a kid who was caught with his hand in the cookie jar. He looked and sounded like a guy who had done something wrong, and was being forced to lie about it. I've seen that look on my kids...

I'm willing to accept Alan at his word -- he was there. If he believes it was a hurt motor, then OK. If he had access to the super-secret inner-sanctum of the KB team pits (where they could tell you but then they'd have to kill you), and feels he saw the actual offending springs, then OK. And the info about the 1/8th times/speeds helps with that case, so OK.

But I certainly don't think past history makes that an easy case to make. If you were making a list of teams that would issue/follow team orders and those that don't, it certainly wouldn't be a stretch to put the KB team in the "yes" column.

But that's just, like everything else here on the 'Mater, my opinion.

 

[Toejam]

I have never understood all the complaining about diving. If you are on a team, you do what is best for the team rule or no rule. If this is a problem, then NHRA needs to ban all teams, Pro and Sportsman. This will never happen. Limit Force, Kalitta, Schumacker, and Lucas in Fuel alone to one car and you are down to eight car fields. What it would do is create a lot of paper only solo teams.

Alan, how can you use the term "professional journalist" when talking about someone that works at "DRO"?

i think that is impossible!

 

[Paul]

Alan, how can you use the term "professional journalist" when talking about someone that works at "DRO"?

Exactly!!!! If you are lucky, 10% of what you read over there is somewhat true.

 

[TooTall999]

Im curious how the Powers at be at Traxxas would react should Courtney get ADD on the line with a .200 something light or her car mysteriously shuts off at 800' like T Ped's did at Pomona in '97-'98? When it comes down to the Countdown facing another Force car in the other lane??? You notice you no longer see DSR cars laying down when a Sponsor voiced his displeasure at Seattle some years back!

No, but we did see DSR pull Jack Beckman out of his car and put Capps in it when NAPA was obviously unhappy with their star driver's DNQ...

 

[none]

Chris,

I can't comment on what Jason looked like or said on the TV show. I didn't see it. I went to the pit after the winners circle stuff was done. That's when we talked and he told and showed me what broke. All I can attest to is that he was as disappointed as I have ever seen him. He wanted to be the one to get win #100 for Ken, while Ken was there to see and share it.

Alan

 

[clwill]

Chris,

I can't comment on what Jason looked like or said on the TV show. I didn't see it. I went to the pit after the winners circle stuff was done. That's when we talked and he told and showed me what broke. All I can attest to is that he was as disappointed as I have ever seen him. He wanted to be the one to get win #100 for Ken, while Ken was there to see and share it.

Alan

And I can accept your word on it. Enough for me.

 

[Toejam]

No, but we did see DSR pull Jack Beckman out of his car and put Capps in it when NAPA was obviously unhappy with their star driver's DNQ...

Thats not diving on the tree now is it?

 

[Paul]

No, but we did see DSR pull Jack Beckman out of his car and put Capps in it when NAPA was obviously unhappy with their star driver's DNQ...

This is the first crew chief change in the history of drag racing? This is nothing like throwing a race so try again.....

 

[clwill]

This is the first crew chief change in the history of drag racing? This is nothing like throwing a race so try again.....

Actually, this was more like a driver change. The car, crew chief, crew, etc. went from one sponsor to another.

That said, you're right, this is apples v. oranges with respect to throwing a race.

 

[Marchboom]

Thats not diving on the tree now is it?

That has nothing to do with diving. An owner puts together the right people in the right positions to accomplish a goal. DS did that. That's not diving.

 

[TooTall999]

This is the first crew chief change in the history of drag racing? This is nothing like throwing a race so try again.....

This was not simply a crew chief change,they took the best running car-crew combination out from under Jack and put Capps in it to keep NAPA happy. It's not diving on the tree but it was a type of team orders wasn't it? Very simply the order was we're taking you out of the good car(Jack) and giving it to Ron along with your crew chief, and putting you in the car Ron DNQ'd in. Tell me how that wasn't team orders...

 

[Marchboom]

This was not simply a crew chief change,they took the best running car-crew combination out from under Jack and put Capps in it to keep NAPA happy. It's not diving on the tree but it was a type of team orders wasn't it? Very simply the order was we're taking you out of the good car(Jack) and giving it to Ron along with your crew chief, and putting you in the car Ron DNQ'd in. Tell me how that wasn't team orders...

DS is the boss. He can move anyone around that he wants. Bosses get to do that. He is doing it for the benefit of the entire racing operation.

Team orders? If Don says he wants to use a Ford body instead of a Dodge, would you cry, "Team orders!" If he wants to use a different make of pistons, is that "team orders"? To me, team orders would be setting up a car that won't run as well when racing another team car. Or telling a driver to go for a slow reaction time so the other team car will win. Now that's team orders.

 

[TooTall999]

DS is the boss. He can move anyone around that he wants. Bosses get to do that. He is doing it for the benefit of the entire racing operation.

Team orders? If Don says he wants to use a Ford body instead of a Dodge, would you cry, "Team orders!" If he wants to use a different make of pistons, is that "team orders"? To me, team orders would be setting up a car that won't run as well when racing another team car. Or telling a driver to go for a slow reaction time so the other team car will win. Now that's team orders.

Well then as a comparison, JFR doesn't take a hired hand out of a hot racecar and put in a different driver just to keep the sponsors happy. I realise it's all business. BTW how about Capps suddemly smoking the tires in the final so Johnny Gray can get in the Traxxas shootout? Curious hmmm???