There is no 'set-in-stone' price for most anything in society. Business is done on a deal-by-deal basis. Bill Miller is probably paying pennies for nitro as he has the rod/piston industry in his corner. Chrisman makes rear-ends....AJ makes the heads and some forged blocks..and the list could continue but if you are cutting checks for success than you have to pay..get it?
Nitromater
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IHRA Nitro = $900 - NHRA Nitro = $2,000?
- Thread starter shane
- Start date
VP is a business that will continue to have huge success. Nothing that happens here on the 'mater' will ever affect the physical changes/aspects of NHRA drag racing.
I spoke to five teams in the alcohol ranks and they all paid different prices for their methanol. Price range was close for each of them but none of them had the exact same sticker price.
I spoke to five teams in the alcohol ranks and they all paid different prices for their methanol. Price range was close for each of them but none of them had the exact same sticker price.
The nitro in IHRA was $1,200 for a full drum in Canada. When we raced in Milan it was $900 for 40 gallons, well it was really about 38. Then in Maryland it was $1,000 for the same maybe 40 gallons.
As far as being in Canada selling it as a full drum I think was more of a decision maker of the actual seller. I think from talking to some folks that are still selling nitro that the 40 gallon thing is maybe a croc.
Also I can say for sure the quality of the nitro is terrible, the quality of the drums it comes in is also terrible. IHRA is doing the best they can, this whole thing is really just a shame. Way to many people not telling the truth.
Not to get off topic but when did it become almost second nature for most people to just not tell the truth anymore. For instance for me in Milan the fuel was $900, then in Maryland it was raised to $1,000. No big deal I know how the world works expenses go up at any time, but the guys selling the nitro were telling everybody that the nitro they were selling in Maryland was a more expensive batch. Well this was 100% a lie, cause I know for a fact it was from the same batch as Milan. If other expenses went up why not just tell the truth. I think people would be more suprised at the support they would recieve if they only told the truth.
It is just a shame how much we all love drag racing and just let some of these lies go on, I know I am as guilty as anyone of doing whatever the leaders make us do just so we can race.
Well sorry for rambling.
Bobby Lagana Jr.
As far as being in Canada selling it as a full drum I think was more of a decision maker of the actual seller. I think from talking to some folks that are still selling nitro that the 40 gallon thing is maybe a croc.
Also I can say for sure the quality of the nitro is terrible, the quality of the drums it comes in is also terrible. IHRA is doing the best they can, this whole thing is really just a shame. Way to many people not telling the truth.
Not to get off topic but when did it become almost second nature for most people to just not tell the truth anymore. For instance for me in Milan the fuel was $900, then in Maryland it was raised to $1,000. No big deal I know how the world works expenses go up at any time, but the guys selling the nitro were telling everybody that the nitro they were selling in Maryland was a more expensive batch. Well this was 100% a lie, cause I know for a fact it was from the same batch as Milan. If other expenses went up why not just tell the truth. I think people would be more suprised at the support they would recieve if they only told the truth.
It is just a shame how much we all love drag racing and just let some of these lies go on, I know I am as guilty as anyone of doing whatever the leaders make us do just so we can race.
Well sorry for rambling.
Bobby Lagana Jr.
The Counterfeiter
Nitro Member
This is really confusing! Are you saying that Miller and AJ are paying LESS for nitro because they supply parts to fuel teams? Of course, AJ isn't paying for nitro - Shoe is . . . and I'll bet he is not getting a break on nitro.
And no - I don't get it. If you have some facts regarding teams paying different prices, I'm sure we would all be interested.
What I said was taken out of context.
I am saying is that some teams are paying higher prices than others and that is nothing new in all aspects of everyday life. But when you have a product that you produce, and that everyone uses, it puts you in a more controllable position for the barter system.
I am saying is that some teams are paying higher prices than others and that is nothing new in all aspects of everyday life. But when you have a product that you produce, and that everyone uses, it puts you in a more controllable position for the barter system.
Zak
Nitro Member
I guess I've got to jump in here since I'm that guy "selling the nitro" and "telling the lies". I'll lay it out real simple here so there isn't any misunderstanding.
Here are the facts as I know them:
- Torco couldn't get any more Nitro - for whatever reason... that's a different subject.
- Rob Reeves (Castrol Raceway) with some help from Terry McMillen stepped in to buy 2 containers for Nitro so we could race at IHRA for the rest of the season. I help deliver it and collect the money so Rob can get repaid
- We sold 40 gallon drums at Milan for $900 - a few were short - those who made us aware were given more Nitro if there drum was short - no questions asked.
- Price of Nitro went to $1,000 for 40 gallons in Maryland. We couldn't break even @ $900 - transportation, insurance.. whatever... it cost another $100.
- Price of Nitro was $1,200 at Edmonton and Grand Bend for 53 gallons. That's $22.64 per gallon - cheaper by about $3.00 per gallon that what we paid in Maryland. (I'm pretty sure it cost a few extra dollars to ship it to Edmonton too!)
- We were able to sell it @53 gallons in Canada - there isn't any Homeland Issues to worry about.
- A nitro Harley guy got a contaminated drum in Edmonton. It was replaced - no questions asked.
- Paul Richards received a drum in Grand Bend that he didn't like - drum liner looked like it was coming apart. We took it back and brought him a new drum.
- Mitch King was worried about the meth separating from the Nitro. He had some strange readings.. I have no answer for that.
- The Nitro supply in Grand Bend looked a little tight - we shipped just enough. We had another 12 drums shipped in to be certain to have enough. Terry McMillen was concerned that if the truck didn't get in we might have to use that barrel that Paul Richards returned. He bought it Saturday night, we filtered it twice - he ran 4.66 @322 first round with that "bad" Nitro.
- When we get to Martin - Nitro may cost more. We may have to buy different drums and have it transferred so we can be assured that the drum liners are good.
- We may be a few barrel's short when we get to Rockingham from the original 2 container purchase. If more is needed to finish Rockingham - it will be at whatever the replacement cost is at that time
Here's the best part
As far as I know - the IHRA wouldn't care if anyone brought their own Nitro. Heck, I'd prefer it - I'm tired of wrestling those barrels around the pits. Or, anyone that wants to go through the approval process with the government can ship the damn stuff in themselves.
In the interest of full disclosure - I've made $0 helping out - not even a bologna sandwich. But that's not why I'm doing it... At the rate Rob Reeves is going - he'll lose money on the deal... but he didn't do it to make money - he makes his money on other things. Oh, and my buddy Terry gets drug around in the mud for trying to make sure we've got some nitro to race with...
I had an old boss that once told me that "no good deed goes unpunished". Damn if he wasn't right...
Zak
Nitro Member
Zak
Nitro Member
Thanks for reminding me.... I did hear a report about that... can't remember who it was though... I will try and get an explanation. I don't even claim to have stayed at a Holiday Inn.
All I can say is it's straight from China - we crack the drum, drop a teaspoon of dye in it and aerate.
I would imagine it has something to do with 99.0% vs 99.9% - I've been told all anyone has right now is 99.0%
I for sure appreciate all measures taken for all to race, but what I said was I was told the price of nitro went up because the nitro price went up from the supplier. I fully understand how business works, I know it is real easy to underestimate the price of doing business, so that is fine. At least we should all know the real deal.
I guess I should apologize for talking on a message board, but I'm just speaking the facts.
For us it seems as if the caps are the problem and not the drum liners. Maybe new caps could be ordered.
I always say thank you when a drum is delivered, I also thanked Rob Reeves when I paid him for the nitro in Edmonton, and I think a guy like Rob Reeves is awesome for our sport. One of the reasons I love going to Edmonton.
Oh yea, just one more thing Torco did not make any money on their Nitro either, so I guess that is just the business of Nitro, I know for sure we do not make any money burning it. I do know it is a hell of a lot of FUN!!!
Nothing better than friendly banter, hope that’s how all see it.
I guess I should apologize for talking on a message board, but I'm just speaking the facts.
For us it seems as if the caps are the problem and not the drum liners. Maybe new caps could be ordered.
I always say thank you when a drum is delivered, I also thanked Rob Reeves when I paid him for the nitro in Edmonton, and I think a guy like Rob Reeves is awesome for our sport. One of the reasons I love going to Edmonton.
Oh yea, just one more thing Torco did not make any money on their Nitro either, so I guess that is just the business of Nitro, I know for sure we do not make any money burning it. I do know it is a hell of a lot of FUN!!!
Nothing better than friendly banter, hope that’s how all see it.
Zak
Nitro Member
I'm all good with it Bobby - I wish we had time to spill beers about it... I think we would find more common ground than not.
For the record - I agree you have always thanked me for bringing the Nitro - heck one of your guys tried to tip me in Maryland for bring it.
I would agree that Torco lost money on Nitro... heck - I think they gave more away on 'fuel deals' than they sold.
I also wanted to clarify a couple of things:
- Anyone who wants can bring their own Nitro to an IHRA race for now.
- I confirmed with Rob - when we went to pick up the second container of Nitro they charged us an additional $9,300 per container before they would let us pick up the second container. I'm not sure what reason was given, but the cost for those 2 containers went up $18,600. There's 80 drums in a container. 160 drums divided by $18,600 is $116.25 per drum. That's why the price was raised $100 per drum for Maryland. Anyone that wants to confirm that can call Skooter Peecko @ IHRA or Rob Reeves @ Castrol Raceway.
At the end of the day we're all in crappy situations - just trying to do the best we can to get through this year. Hopefully everything will be back to something normal soon.
Here's another sad story no one wants to hear. The price of that VP Nitro... probably not that far off from what it should be. We had a chance to buy a few more containers - as did Torco - we didn't want it - we thought it was too much money. My guess is that is one of the reasons Torco didn't buy those containers.
The containers being sold at IHRA don't include a lot of the overhead that SHOULD be associated with the cost of a drum. Things like, labor, transportation... cost to transfer to 'good drums'... The drums we burned through this weekend should have been sold at something closer to $1,550 - $1,650 per drum (if we were trying to cover overhead and such).
But that could have put a few IHRA drag racers at risk of not being able to play... and what fun is drag racing if you don't have someone to race against?
Tell you what Bobby - I'll buy you a beer in Martin... there's only one stipulation - we can't talk about Nitro
Zak
Nitro Member
Word to me is that the 99.0% nitro is more caustic than the 99.9%. Cleaning with Methanol will make it worse. Coating with WD40 is the only suggestion given at this time.
Also, rubber o-rings will dry out over time - the 99.0% will just accelerate the process.
Beer is cool in Martin, I'll bring the Tequila, or better yet we'll get it from Diehl and believe you me, we can talk about lots of things other than nitro.
Anyhows IHRA, it has been a banner year for them as far as close racing.
Adios till Martin,
Bobby
P.S. on the O-ring deal, not trying to sound like a salesman, but the methanol and nitro lube from Torco works wonders for these situations.
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Anyhows IHRA, it has been a banner year for them as far as close racing.
Adios till Martin,
Bobby
P.S. on the O-ring deal, not trying to sound like a salesman, but the methanol and nitro lube from Torco works wonders for these situations.
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It depends on the composition of the o rings. That's not a smart aleck answer, simply that different materials are eaten by different things. If we knew that the o rings were rubber, or butyl, or buna-n for instance it's not too hard to list what materials attack each.
Regardless, it sounds like some chemicals were present to cause the deterioration.
If the rings are indeed rubber, alcohol (for one thing) would do a number on them.
This statement doesn't make any sense. VP is in the FUEL business, not the rod/piston, rear ends and heads & forged blocks business. There is no need to "barter".
Suzie.....Sometimes in business you 'barter' for the best deals. You think VP sets the same price for everyone? Like I mentioned earlier I know of 5 teams that paid 5 different prices foe their methanol...This has been an old subject for many years. When you are the main supplier of rear-ends and/or rods/pistons/etc you get things handed to you quicker than most other guys----and if you don't get it then you have not been involved in 'big' business..
I used to run/own a sound stage in So Calif and every production company was offered the same daily/monthly rate but if they had something I needed in life then we did business the old fashioned way----barter, off the record w/out any paper trail.
I used to run/own a sound stage in So Calif and every production company was offered the same daily/monthly rate but if they had something I needed in life then we did business the old fashioned way----barter, off the record w/out any paper trail.
