Ideas for safer, more efficient fuel cars (3 Viewers)

[T.Smith]

Lose a clutch disc and timing retarders...very easy to police and not costly.

No overdrive limits...because whoever has the best blowers will win.

No spec pumps...to hard to police.

 

[T.Smith]

I agree we need to keep the changes, cheap, and easy to police. Has anyone mentioned adding weight?? How about front brakes on dragsters??

As for the sand traps.....maybe pea gravel would work better. Has that been tried yet???

Paul, these cars are heavy enough.

I don't think front brakes on a dragster will make much of a differance, look how skinny the front wheels are....maybe if we had some IRL front wheels.

 

[T.Smith]

I'm not sure how you're going have a spec rod and piston when none of them are the same when new and certainly aren't the same after you make a run.

 

[my friends call me Zappy]

Tony yer right the front are skinny, but at least they tend to stay on the ground. We've all seen when a dragster IS in trouble (late or NO chute) when the driver gets hard on the brakes the rear tends to hop off the ground.

Just trying to keep it low$$$ and easy to tech, police.

(ps) I still like the less cu.in. If you give them less displacement, seems like the rest, (comp. ratio-overdrive-mags-ect) would regulate itself. I mean you can only put so much in a given displacement.....

 

[T.Smith]

Tony yer right the front are skinny, but at least they tend to stay on the ground. We've all seen when a dragster IS in trouble (late or NO chute) when the driver gets hard on the brakes the rear tends to hop off the ground.

Just trying to keep it low$$$ and easy to tech, police.

(ps) I still like the less cu.in. If you give them less displacement, seems like the rest, (comp. ratio-overdrive-mags-ect) would regulate itself. I mean you can only put so much in a given displacement.....

Well maybe some these tracks should smooth out their shut down areas.

I think the A/Fuel racers and a few BAD racers have proved that a smaller engine can run fast. When the a/fuel craze started, what were they 500cid? What are they now?....420cid?

 

[big guy]

Why would a spec pump be hard to police????Have a flow bench on site.Nhra will supply the pumps.they can be flowed to show the crew chiefs what exactly they flow.If you think you are having a pump problem,simply bring it to the flow bench and test it.problem solved,lower fuel volume means slower cars.I am not talking about the 28 or 35 gpm pump .It will need to be in the 55 to 65 gpm rate.not these big 92 to 105 gpm they use now.

 

[my friends call me Zappy]

Well maybe some these tracks should smooth out their shut down areas.

I think the A/Fuel racers and a few BAD racers have proved that a smaller engine can run fast. When the a/fuel craze started, what were they 500cid? What are they now?....420cid?

Good question Tony, I don't know what the cu.in. is now for them.
Let me bounce this off you. What about giving them back a trans?? say a two speed. Seems that with the rear gear already mandated, we're asking a lot for that gear to go from 0 to 300+. Do you think a two speed trans would help eliminate breakage???

 

[Toejam]

MOst of the A/Fuel guys run the 421 combo, Mark Niver I heard runs a 392! And managed a 5.27 out of that little Hemi in Seattle! When Don Enriquez ran that Monster run 5.77 at the '93 Finals he was running a 538 Arias.

 

[Bob]

I'm amased in a good way how you americans are trying to find ways to make everything safer , you don't see this kind of talk down here in new zealand when an accident happens in motorsports well not publicly anyway . People here just tend to say oh well it was an accident and they move on keep racing and nothing really changes . Its good seeing these kind of discussions

Not quite William. I don't know if you are old enough to have watched Class B World Rally cars in the mid 80's. I saw them race on Pikes Peak for three years. Amazing machines, and after too many drivers and spectators were killed in Europe, the class was banned from the sport worldwide.

Rocket cars are banned here because no insurance company will insure tracks that might want to let them race. I don't want to see the same thing happen to nitro cars.

 

[CrewGuy]

Since the spec piston/rod would not work (due to tuners having too many combinations out there).
Limit the cars to (1) sparkplug, mag and 1 (flow to be determined) fuel pump.
Taking away the electronics to the can could be an option.
They need a twofold deal: Slow them down and help the lesser funded teams to be more competitive.

 

[T.Smith]

Why would a spec pump be hard to police????Have a flow bench on site.Nhra will supply the pumps.they can be flowed to show the crew chiefs what exactly they flow.If you think you are having a pump problem,simply bring it to the flow bench and test it.problem solved,lower fuel volume means slower cars.I am not talking about the 28 or 35 gpm pump .It will need to be in the 55 to 65 gpm rate.not these big 92 to 105 gpm they use now.

The thought of NHRA supplied fuel pumps gives me visions of when pop off valves were being handed out by USAC in the late 70's, early 80's Indy 500s. Roger Penske, Pat Patrick and Carl Haas's valves seemed to pop off later than others.

Even worse, your tune up begins with the fuel pump. A lot of these teams spend a lot time servicing their pumps. Now you want to hand this responsiblity off to NHRA...I don't think so.

Removing a clutch disc would make those 100 gallon pumps extinct.

 

[Nitrohelper]

Nhra will supply the pumps.... .....It will need to be in the 55 to 65 gpm rate.not these big 92 to 105 gpm they use now.

To a Nitro burner the term "spec" pump isn't the same thing as an NHRA "supplied" pump.
Either way you need more tech inspectors & equipment.

I believe that adds other more potential problems.
* Will NHRA pay when their pump dies ,and kills the motor?
* What is the liability if the NHRA part causes injury? (real or claimed)
* If the pump drops GPM between rounds can it be checked and replaced?(16 cars)
* Is the pump drive checked by tech every round on every car? (overdrives)
* What is the payout when the NHRA pump dies at half track in the final.
* How much will NHRA charge for using & servicing their pumps. (like Nitro)

Do you know how many gallons actually go through the flow meter into the engine after half track? They need the maximum fuel at 2-3 seconds when the motor is pulled down, remember that's 100 gal.@8000 on a flow bench.
They leave the starting line with less than 60 gal. at the meter.
Some of that pump size is used to create high pressure.

Again ,,, reduce the air and spark .......Free the Nitro (100%)

 

[T.Smith]

Not quite William. I don't know if you are old enough to have watched Class B World Rally cars in the mid 80's. I saw them race on Pikes Peak for three years. Amazing machines, and after too many drivers and spectators were killed in Europe, the class was banned from the sport worldwide.

Those were absolutely wicked race cars.

 

[T.Smith]

Good question Tony, I don't know what the cu.in. is now for them.
Let me bounce this off you. What about giving them back a trans?? say a two speed. Seems that with the rear gear already mandated, we're asking a lot for that gear to go from 0 to 300+. Do you think a two speed trans would help eliminate breakage???

If asked around, I bet some folks would perfer a 2.90 gear.

We can put 50 runs on a ring and pinion.

 

[my friends call me Zappy]

Tony, don't you all have to run the same gear??? or am I wrong. Does nhra give you any choise??

 

[T.Smith]

Tony, don't you all have to run the same gear??? or am I wrong. Does nhra give you any choise??

Yes, a 3.20 is all you get.

 

[my friends call me Zappy]

Thanks Tony, best of luck, I'll see ya this weekend.

 

[Toejam]

If asked around, I bet some folks would perfer a 2.90 gear.

We can put 50 runs on a ring and pinion.

Why not? Reduce RPM's about 800-1000 RPM, who wouldn't want that?

 

["Chuck"]

Simple equation: Fuel = Power Not a difficult concept. If there was a spec fuel pump that everyone had to use it would be easy to slow down the cars. It was posted that less fuel would be a bad thing and destroy motors.

Looking at it the other way as these current motors were developed, we had smaller fuel pumps which meant the we couldn't run higher compression and we couldn't run the boost that they run now. Simply not enough fuel to keep these motors cool. The result was we tuned the motors to the volume of fuel that we had and they stayed together a lot better than now.

Using less fuel means slower cars... Also besides nozzles and jets there would not be anymore expense. All the motor parts would still be ok and pistons are replaced after a run anyway.

Less fuel would result in lower compression and slower blowers accomplishing what people want and would be easy to tech. I have run a Nitro motor with less pump and 8 plugs and usng todays equipment these motors start becoming very strong. If you use parts designed for 7000+hp and only run them at 5000 they will last longer.

I still think the way to go is to lower the compression and the blower overdrive, and possibly take the rev limiters off. Theres no way to get around lowering compression and overdrive together, and it means higher parts life and durability. Plus its not going to cost these guys anything more or less than they already spend in head gaskets and different sized compression height pistons. Instead of buying a hundred different sizes in the thousands your only looking at a few different sizes and alot less in quantity. You cant go against Armstrong on that one.

 

[Mooseman]

I really like in the dale armstrong interview how he ses that lowering compression will really show who the real brainiacs are because the smart ones will work on cylinder head flow and cam timing .