Ideas for safer, more efficient fuel cars (1 Viewer)

[The Counterfeiter]

First, I know you know there is a lot more to blower efficiency than the amount of overdrive used to drive it.
Second, Checking cranking compression has more to do with cam timeing than with the Compression RATIO of the motor, Therefore checking it with a guage is a waste of time.
I also have the utmost respect for Dale Armstrong but if the other "Current" fuel crew chiefs have reasons they do not want to go along with his suggestions I will support their opinions as they are up to the minute on current technology.

Paul - I brought up the DA thing and possibly didn't go into enough detail.
First - reducing overdrive at the pulleys is going to have an effect - how teams manage efficiency is up to them and would be very difficult to police.
Second - there are other ways to confirm compression ratio. Perhaps random checking and always tearing down winners would work?
And . . . I don't know if current crew chiefs object to this because it hasn't been proposed. If people want a return to 1320' racing, the cars MUST be slowed down - there are too many tracks that can't be "fixed". If current crew chiefs have ideas about this, they need to start speaking up - now.
Finally, someone needs to be put in charge of this with absolute authority to control and penalize offenders. No politics! - JMHO

 

[Nitrohaulic]

Ron, I must admit I'm a little confused at your reply as I have a great amount of respect for you.
First, I know you know there is a lot more to blower efficiency than the amount of overdrive used to drive it.
Second, Checking cranking compression has more to do with cam timeing than with the Compression RATIO of the motor, Therefore checking it with a guage is a waste of time.
I also have the utmost respect for Dale Armstrong but if the other "Current" fuel crew chiefs have reasons they do not want to go along with his suggestions I will support their opinions as they are up to the minute on current technology.

You got me. I wasn't thinking about how valve overlap would screw up checking compression.

I'm also guilty of not keeping up with big show rules over the last few years like I used to. Are they already limited on blower overdrive? I have had some things shown to me to demonstrate that all 14-71s are definitely not the same on the inside.

You hate making fuelers like comp cars but, what better way would there be of slowing them down AND making the classes more affordable to run in?

I just read Roland Leon in the Hot Rod nostalgia article a few weeks ago talking about how it's actually not easy to put rods out at 3,000 horsepower on nitro. Seems like anything back toward that direction a little would save money.

 

[Nitrohaulic]

Look at it this way. Whether or not compression would be checkable with melted pistons? At least these are engines that already get torn down after each run!

Instead of policing for the wrong brand of nitro in the pits, they can be watching for the wrong pistons and head gaskets.

 

["Chuck"]

Alot of making these cars safer and more efficient is not only slowing them down, but helping them stop faster too...I think there should be a little more attention to parachute and brake technology and maybe something more innovative that will help them stop even faster and quicker. How they go about doing that I dont know but I think thats a huge topic that needs to be addressed too.

 

[Nitrohaulic]

What if you did this? I know engines are sealed in some forms of racing and I believe engine leasing companies have seals on them.

When teching in, tech in your parts. Have someone who is able to determine your compression ratio by measuring the parts you have. Have that person randomly be in this pit or that pit to check parts that are still measurable when they come out so that anyone thinking of cheating would never know when their turn might come up.

Would you then have to have spec cams?

 

[CrewGuy]

Say you have 32 cars; 16 T/F and 16 F/C. That is 32 NHRA tech guys that will be needed to police the teams. A 75 minute turnaround would require it. The easiest would be to reduce nitro % [which we all would hate].

 

[Mooseman]

Say you have 32 cars; 16 T/F and 16 F/C. That is 32 NHRA tech guys that will be needed to police the teams. A 75 minute turnaround would require it. The easiest would be to reduce nitro % [which we all would hate].

yeah but didnt they say last time that when they drop nitro you have to totally rework the cylinder heads run different compression and set the engine up totally different .

 

["Chuck"]

Say you have 32 cars; 16 T/F and 16 F/C. That is 32 NHRA tech guys that will be needed to police the teams. A 75 minute turnaround would require it. The easiest would be to reduce nitro % [which we all would hate].

The only problem with reducing nitro is you also reduce the cooling efficiency of the motor which really eats through parts. Thats why they went back up to 90% this year because 85% was tearing up parts...Anything to do with taking away a fuel pump or reducing the fuel, or the fuel flow im totally against because the downsides far outweigh the upsides.

 

[Nitrohaulic]

Say you have 32 cars; 16 T/F and 16 F/C. That is 32 NHRA tech guys that will be needed to police the teams. A 75 minute turnaround would require it. The easiest would be to reduce nitro % [which we all would hate].

No, that's why I said tech the parts as they come in. Have one guy who does post run parts inspections in the pits at RANDOM. You never know when it's your turn.

When he enters a pit, you could even stop that team's 75 minute clock until the moment he steps out again.

 

[CrewGuy]

The only problem with reducing nitro is you also reduce the cooling efficiency of the motor which really eats through parts. Thats why they went back up to 90% this year because 85% was tearing up parts...Anything to do with taking away a fuel pump or reducing the fuel, or the fuel flow im totally against because the downsides far outweigh the upsides.

Slow down the blower and take away compression and your heat problem is over.

 

[Mooseman]

I've seen nitro crew chiefs lurking on this forum its just a shame none of them post because if anyone would have a clue as to a good idea it would be one of them .

 

[CrewGuy]

No, that's why I said tech the parts as they come in. Have one guy who does post run parts inspections in the pits at RANDOM. You never know when it's your turn.

Never would work. Someone would always push the envelope.

When he enters a pit, you could even stop that team's 75 minute clock until the moment he steps out again.

You lost me there Ron. The time limit requires you to report to the lanes or forfeit. Or am I missing the concept?

 

[The Counterfeiter]

Slow down the blower and take away compression and your heat problem is over.

Odd . . . reducing blower overdrive and lowering compression was Dale Armstrong's solution - 11 years ago!
Random checks should work as long as someone is in charge who can impose severe penalties without decisions being reversed or modified.

 

[Nitrohaulic]

You lost me there Ron. The time limit requires you to report to the lanes or forfeit. Or am I missing the concept?

Just an idea that popped into my head and quite possibly a bad one. Do any big show cars use the same pistons from one run to the next? Maybe I'm wrong but, I don't think so. If the inspector's job in any way interfered with what the crew was doing, I think you'd have to knock that off of their time limit.

 

[CrewGuy]

That's what will be needed. A spec. piston/rod and blower pulley(s) that could be policed. If in doubt- confiscate the motor and go over it later.

 

[Mooseman]

I was watching the espn last night and they had this show that talked about different issues in different sports , one of the issues they talked about was something I know nothing about .... horse jumping of all things . I have no interest in horses but watched it anyway and aparently in that sport they have had something like 14 deaths in the last few years or something . They interviewed people involved in the sport and they all said that the people in charge were never competitors and are just business people .

When I watched it , it reminded me of the nhra except the nhra has had fewer deaths .

 

[Muddy]

One mag and 8 spark plugs would solve most of the problem. Without the ignition to burn the extra fuel they would have to decrease fuel volume which would decrease horsepower. I guess limiting the blower to 1071 specs or something close would also help. Both of those are very easy to police without tear down or any real technical inspections. Also take the rev limiter off so the motors won't be as prone to break.

 

[Nitrohaulic]

That's what will be needed. A spec. piston/rod and blower pulley(s) that could be policed. If in doubt- confiscate the motor and go over it later.

Well, that's what I'm talking about with rods and pistons. I don't know about teching all the parts in because I think everyone puts their engines back together before the cars go into the trailers. I realized that would be a bug when I posted it.

I'm pretty sure a certain pitch pulley tooth will dictate the same diameter of pulley no matter who makes it. A template should slide over it so you don't have to tediously count teeth.

 

[The Counterfeiter]

That's what will be needed. A spec. piston/rod and blower pulley(s) that could be policed. If in doubt- confiscate the motor and go over it later.

Yeah Baby! Racing to 1320' on 100% -

 

["Chuck"]

Slow down the blower and take away compression and your heat problem is over.

good point....I think it would be kind of interesting to see how tech officials would be able to police compression and blower overdrive (blower pulleys and pistons etc etc) without somebody coming up with a way to get around it...i think you would almost have to start policing the clutch system too...damn racers are always tryin to bend the rules lol but thats what makes this sport so damn good.