How The NHRA Can Save Itself... (2 Viewers)

[Jay]

Please point out in any of my posts were I personally attacked you.

As for the rest of your points, we could argue all day so I'll just drop it.

I would not do any work for racer if I thought it would be detriment to the sport. I think making NHRA into a NASCAR clone would be a HUGE detriment.

The teams I mostly have worked with were what could be considered underdogs, teams that are not be able to get funding like JFR and DSR and would most likely have to leave racing if costs escalated any more than they are now.

Do you agree that raising fundings for the big dogs will kill the smaller teams, and, that the big dogs WOULD be the biggest recipient of increased funding?

"Jay, my mistake, I thought you were in the marketing business." - Paul, this was B.S and you know it...

Anyway, moving on....you say that you aren't even going to respond to the other points I made in my last post because we could argue all day...interesting...What I said about the situation in Charlotte was right on...could it be that I was right and you just don't like that? I don't see what there would be to argue about the facts?

About the exapmple using your business...again...not going to respond...? Interesting...What I said made a lot of sense...for some reason you don't agree..I'd like to know why?

As far as the team funding goes? In the current state where a team can have 4 cars in a class, while I feel that it would certainly be much better than it is right now, I do agree with you that 60% or more of the benefit would go to the more established teams, but that certainly isn't to say that the small teams would suffer. I think that you would find that the smaller teams would see a tremendous benefit to seeing the sport grow in leaps and bounds, as well...That being said, in NASCAR you are seeing that now...Yates is still looking for a sponsor for his 2 cars, and Roush is helping them do that because Roush can't have more than 4 cars. THat is a situation that is very interesting because it is the first time that I have seen teams work THAT closely together...You will see more of that in the next year or two, as well with Hendrick, RCR, Gibbs, etc...These teams are really starting to increase their alliances besides just engine leases and chassis now...

Now, in NASCAR, they can have 4 teams per owner...In NHRA it is exactly the same, but it shouln't be...We only have 16 starting spots in each class on Sunday while NASCAR has 43. Each owner should only be allowed to have 2 teams in each class...This will allow for each team to be able to compete on a much bigger and more even playing field....They will maximize the funding for those 2 cars in the class...Now you may have 10-12 super teams potentially with 6 cars and two bikes if they are in every class...I think that would be a really nice balance because now you would also have 6-8 single car teams showing up to make the show too...It would be awsome!

If that was the case, you now have 10-12 marketing teams pushing the sport with their sponsors, retial promotions, souvenir licensing like PJ talked about, and you have full fields that are well funded, and so on...It can only get better from there...

 

[Draw 3D]

"Jay, my mistake, I thought you were in the marketing business." - Paul, this was B.S and you know it...

Well, this will be my last post on this topic, it ain't going anywhere.

I'm glad you think so highly of yourself that I would know who you are or what you do. Like I said before, don't know and don't care.

Your other points I don't agree with, and frankly, is not worth arguing about. You're not going to change my mind and I'm not going to change your mind. Like I said, this ain't going anywhere.

 

[yoda]

I'm seeing the best thing that could have happend to this sport is the purchase by HD and what will ultimately be the division of "Church and State", as it may be.

It is never going to get cheaper. Simple fact. The Pro side is going to be made up of guys like Forrest, Don, Evan and John from this point forward. You want to get into the big show? Bring your bank. Kids dream of making it to the Majors in all kinds of sport, and with the right kind of luck, exposure and talent, SOME do. MOST don't. To run in the 4 Pro catagories is, in a nutshell, rapidly approaching what Formula One was in the 70's- an outlet for the limited few that appeal to the limited few. That "limited few" may be 8-12 race teams racing for 80-100,000 fans, and that is where this particular sport will find its glass ceiling.

This will allow those of us that enjoy the sport for what it is -NOT the circus of the multi-trailer, hospitality driven, Countdown-based racing that it is becoming, but the spirit of competition of everything from a weekly bracket event (contested and spectated by your Premeire Age Group of 18 to 34 year olds, Jay), to the VERY professional touring Sportsman teams that get pissed on by the Sanctioning body week in and week out. I know I'll see stout competition and quality car counts at a Lucas Oil event or even my weekly Run-What-U-Brung race, and the fact that people can afford to race and attend these events will be what keeps the true Drag Racing fan satisfied.

Yes, the smell of nitro is a wonderful thing, but at what cost? For us to lose what this entire sport was founded upon in exchange for some aditional media coverage and the fattening of the bank accounts of the limited few just doesn't sit well with me. I will watch a Top Dragster or a CIFCA car and get just as much or more of a rush than if I had to sit in my $100 seat, with my two kids (Also at $100 each) to watch 48 cars from 8 or 9 teams try to figure out their combination, smoking and shutting off (or in worst cases, diving..) and being told that it is great competition.

When Wally passed, I mentioned it was the end of an era; I absolutly feel that way. There is nothing about this sport that remains the same for those of us brought up around its infancy. And with the splitting of the Pros and Sportsman, there will be a place for all of us- it may just be on two opposite sides of the fence, both sides with their backs to each other.

I love this sport. And I am ready to walk away from it (again) if it isn't an enjoyable experience to me anymore. With the focus being driven where it is going, that day seems to be looming on the horizon.

 

[Toejam]

I think I speak for a lot of us here that something is missing somewhere in this sport. Corporate relations, marketing, take your pic! Most of you know I attend quite a few races, and I see a lot of younger (under 30) people at these races. And anyone who's gone to Gainesville, or Houston and yes Pomona knows this sport still sells! Jay I'm with you in the fact that we do need more 18-25 fans out there, but I also think ticket prices are way to high IMO! I think the NHRA marketing dept. lurks here, I think we could give them some priceless imput. By the way, I'm 47 in case some of you are wondering.

 

[Jay]

Well, this will be my last post on this topic, it ain't going anywhere.

I'm glad you think so highly of yourself that I would know who you are or what you do. Like I said before, don't know and don't care.

Your other points I don't agree with, and frankly, is not worth arguing about. You're not going to change my mind and I'm not going to change your mind. Like I said, this ain't going anywhere.

Hmm....easier to cop out than to debate your point? Maybe so...

 

[TJ]

I dis-agree w/ some of you on the 18-25 year old males being actively involved in NHRA racing....Young adults today have way too many other activities that are cheaper, last longer, and are way more entertaining...Cause face it...most of the people that attend a NHRA event on a regular basis go to experience the pits...The on-track experience from the stands is so-so for the first time fan..Yes they are floored after the first couple of blown alcohol/fuel cars pass by but after they encounter their first oil-down delay they wanna do something else besides sit in the stands...
I took a fortune 500 CFO to the 2002 Finals and NHRA (John Saragusa) gave him/wife/guests all the passes they needed-start line/corporate suites/VIP parking-and he wanted to leave after the first round of fuel cars...
He was very adament/educated about the lack of return for his company in the drag racing arena....His company is very involved in Nascar and they have enjoyed a healthy return for over 10 years now....
Drag racing is unique and over too quick to demand the high dollars even though the parts/pieces are top $$$$$....Pretty hard to convince a board to cut a check to fly your colors on pretty equipment that is parked in a stationary position most of the time...
And lets be honest here...the drivers only have to work for less then 10 seconds in most cases....It might be loud, explosive, and fast but not worth 2-4 million dollars a year a car....

 

[d'kid]

Okay, I'm 53(I think) and I hang with a lot of 25-35 year olds...
I too am of the bigger isn't better class... The fact that the closest Strip is 90 miles from here doesn't help, but the fact that the 2 biggest FM rock tried to give away Tickets to the Richmond Race and not only were the listeners clueless, The DJ's themselves had no more idea than "The Ninth Caller"...

What bothered me at Richmond; lack of reserved bleacher benches, over crowding, no reserved seating pass 200 feet out, no stands pass 660ft, the fact that you couldn't see the left lane scoreboard on Sunday, heck, you couldn't hear the PA 2 rows up in the stands...

Why, because there were more People than the Track could hold... and the track reminds me of OCIR, except, no seat backs in reserved and the bad PA... Biggest mistake is not having More reserved seating... talked to too many people who were stuck with General Admission tickets and 1, we told there were plenty of seats, and 2, also told me they weren't coming back.

But then, I really don't like crowds... and if next year is the same, it will be the last National I go to at Richmond... it wasn't what I'd call a good value for the dollars spent...

and has anyone else noticed, the script is the same at every event?

Guess this whole thread is a two edged sword, I don't watch TV because of the dumbed down programing and the commercials, it's just cotton candy for the mind... But, I use products of people who sponsor race cars, when I am in the market of a product they sell.

I carry a cell phone because the company provides it, if they didn't, I would not have one. I am a member of the NHRA, after going almost 20 years without be a member, I stopped working on cars, so I let it slide. I only joined back up a couple of years ago for the audiocast... that's it, not for the hat pin, the coupons or the nifty decals... I'm hoping that HD hooks up with someone like MRN so we can get a true play-by-play, even if it's still a web-cast.

So, to answer your question Jay, in a lot of ways, I think PRO drag racing has already gotten too big... but let it grow even bigger, grow more main stream, the hot lick this year... I'll still watch it on TV, read about it on the web, but more than likely, you won't see my butt in the stands at a National.

There's always IHRA with a nice track not 115 miles from here....

d'kid

 

[mike]

Drag racing is as big as it needs to be, IMO. Am I the only one that sees this?

No youre not Bill Only thing I'd like to see is the teams getting a bigger purse, and the sportsman racers getting a better deal, other then that I'm not fussed. Last thing I want is the sport to become so big that they start shutting off the pits to people, and it would probably happen if the crowds got really huge, least that thoughts been in the back of my head for awhile now. The one thing that needs to happen is the NHRA letting in whoever wants to sponsor someone in! From my understanding the NHRA need to make it official? I'm not 100% sure, but I think it's so they get some cut? Which I think is a joke, I guess that's why if I say convinced Pepsi or Gatorade to come over and sponsor a deal, do you think it would be allowed to run? I don't think so. But I like the sport how it is now, and i liked it how it was more probably back in the 90s, so I don't see any need imo for it to grow any bigger!

 

[D]

Okay, I think folks have missed the point of this post. Sure its great for us hardcore folks for NHRA to maintain the status quo and we get to hold onto "our precious". However given the economic realities, if the sport doesn't grow just a little bit and become skosh more mainstream, we'll all be on this board mourning the loss of the sport because no one wouldfund any of the teams or events. I'm 40 years old and I hate crowds and over priced concessions, but drag racing is great entertainment and the word needs to get out. There was a time in our liftimes when it looked like drag racing was on them growth path as NASCAR and then it all fizzeled out. Drag racing needs some modest sustainable growth so people like TJ, Skuza etc... aren't without rides and everything doesn't have to be either Lucas or Torco funded. That said, the NHRA needs to work with the tracks, sponsors and local businesses to get folks to the tracks for National and divisional events. NHRA needs to work with and encourage sponsor to activated/advertise their sponsorship in non-automotive venues like Brut did with its magazine ads. NHRA needs to stop signing "official" sponsors that block out other potential sponsors (The US Army, PowerAde etc...). BTW do any of the "official" sponsors besides CSK even use that in their advertising? The purses/points funds need to be increased accross the board to help offset the increase in operating costs (I'm pretty sure the cost to run Super Gas is more now than ten years ago) and to help drive mainstream press interest (Read the Winston Million). The purse to win a race should be more in line with what it costs to run a car, regardless of class. NHRA needs to generate new forms of revenue and stop draining the racers and Fans like a vampire. The NHRA needs to hold all national event venues to the LVMS/Route 66 standard. You may fire when ready Gridley

Semper Fi
D

 

[danno]

change is inevitable,you can either be part of it ,or be a victim of it........btw I am 50

 

[none]

I'm only thankfull that Mr. Jay Rathman has absolutely nothing to do with NHRA dragracing. He, like so many others knows all the answers on how to "Grow" the sport. Dragracing will never be "Mainstream" and I truly believe the real fans of the sport could care less if it is.

 

[.]

Jay, what are you talking about???
NHRA brought in Hulk Hogan at Vegas2 and sold the place out!
So they are ahead of you!!!

Ha ha ha, just joking around.

I'll be back to type a real response in a bit. Going to get something to eat......
*Edit: OK, am back.

Do you think it would be too Orwellian to tell or remind fans(by way of advertising) to support the sponsors and purchase the sponsor's products?
I'm not sure the average fan in the stands knows the sponsor needs to see a ROI so their favorite car/driver/team can stay out there.

The midways should be opened up to sponsors selling their wares.
However, the sponsors should offer pricing that beats retail.


What is for sale at NHRA racing? The cars or the stars? The population at large wants to latch on to something or someone.

I feel like multi-car teams(in the same category) hurt competition and thus more sponsors coming in.

Rules enforcement needs to be changed so that it is a level playing field for every car and not randomly enforced or not enforced.

That's all I have.

 

[Jay]

I'm only thankfull that Mr. Jay Rathman has absolutely nothing to do with NHRA dragracing. He, like so many others knows all the answers on how to "Grow" the sport. Dragracing will never be "Mainstream" and I truly believe the real fans of the sport could care less if it is.

And the intelligent point there is...........?

 

[mike]

If the national events got much bigger, where would you put everybody? I know the second Vegas race sold out, as well as Sonoma. The race covers 1320 feet and there are only so many people you can conveniently arrange in that space. My hunch is that we're probably pretty close to that limit at many tracks.

I am totally against ticket freebies. High ticket prices have a wonderful way of screening for serious spectators and putting people on their best behavior. When people get in for free, they don't have a stake in the experience -- and some will be more inclined to get drunk and act unruly. It would almost certainly put a big strain on security and possibly degrade the experience for many in attendance. My point is that not everyone will appreciate the good fortune of a free ticket.

I think drag vehicles look amazing both moving and standing still. A big difference from NASCAR is that here the cars are the primary stars. The machines can be used as effective marketing tools away from the track. When hundreds of vehicles/teams pour into town for a big race, why not make detours to local high schools, shopping malls, and car club gatherings? Unload the car from the trailer for an hour and fire the motor! Doesn't have to be nitro -- any well tuned and well maintained drag vehicle is going to look and sound awesome in such settings. Who could resist the curiosity of seeing that beast run at the track that weekend? Waive or discount the car entry fee for such outreach efforts. The driver autograph sessions the NHRA promotes are just not going to stir up the interest of a real live racecar.

 

[Bob]

I think way too many people are equating growth of the sport with facility capacity. While some facilities have room for additional seating, that isn't what will help the sport grow. There's nothing wrong with sporting events being sold out. The Pepsi Center in Denver will seat about 19,000 for NBA games. The Nuggets aren't relying on the ticket gate for the majority of their income.

Awareness and a cultivated interest in the sport is what will help it grow without changing the experience of actually being there (including pit access).

Paying $100k/hour for coverage of the events themselves should also buy a modicum of program promotion by the network not only within their restricted cable or satellite accessible venues, it should be occasionally have a 10-second spot or two on channels owned by the network that can be picked up with rabbit ear antennas. This sport isn't a hot dog eating contest, but in too many ways it is treated like one.

 

[Toejam]

Try to imagine a Total overflow crowd any race, Indy, Reading, take your pic. I'm not talking just full stands, I'm talking 50-60,000 people full! Can you imagine the complaints flooding this place on why they let TOO many people in?

 

[D]

Try to imagine a Total overflow crowd any race, Indy, Reading, take your pic. I'm not talking just full stands, I'm talking 50-60,000 people full! Can you imagine the complaints flooding this place on why they let TOO many people in?

That can be alleviated by upgrading the facilities (toilets, concessions etc...) and putting in more seats. That said I agree with Bob Orme, growing the sport is not just about more butts in the seats at events, but building bigger "brand" awareness of NHRA and drag racing. Having a bigger brand would allow teams to realistically court non sin product/automotive sponsors. Drag racing's participant demographics are better than any other motorsport and yet that hasn't been capitalized upon. A lot of folks are arguing to maintain the status quo, but we're not even doing that, look at who's rideless, look at the sponsors who have left the sport over the last 2-20 years. So even if we want things to remain the same, the sport needs a higher positive mainstream profile, a better TV package/promotion, better purses for the participants and better facilities for everyone. Tim Wilkerson or Gary Densham need to be able to walk into the boardroom of Fortune 500 company and walk out with fully funded three year sponsorship package, that's not going to happen until we have a little brand growth in drag racing. Although I despise the countdown & "reality" TV not all change is bad and some is necessary for the survival and continued health of the sport.

S/F
D

 

[Baron]

I'm on Jay's side on this one.
Do the math: the track in Acton, Montana is for sale. 4.2 million dollars. Invest that properly and it would easily return 300,000 or more.
Now imagine how you would make 300,00 on a track in Montana over and above all the costs associated with running the events.
No one is going to invest millions in a racetrack that won't even make bank interest for income. No investors - no racetracks. No racetracks - we're back to "square one."
I went to my first drag race in 1960 - thought it was a colossal waste of time. I went to my second drag race at Continental Divide Raceway (Castle Rock, Colorado) in 1964. I was hooked. The differences were enormous. The muscle cars were starting to proliferate and the fuelers were awesome.
I suppose that there is someone, somewhere wistful for the days of flagmen and six cylinder Chevies with Hollywood mufflers. Not me. Continental Divide Raceway is gone, but I'm not.
I'm 64 (today). I'm in the fullness of geezerhood and I wouldn't trade this sport today for anything except what it will be. I'd like to be 24 again and racing for the first time in Pure Stock with my '65 Rambler 327 V-8. I won't be 24 again and Rambler is long gone. We all live in the present. Today I drive a Cadillac and my son drives the family funny car. We're gonna' be stars!
Enjoy what we have - it's better than it used to be. It's about to get a whole lot better.
Cheers,
Ed