Government files lawsuit against Lend America & Michael Ashley (1 Viewer)

[90-percent]

One point here.

We in America have a minefield of laws. If any one of us becomes a target of the federal government, with enough searching, they can come up with stuff we've done that's illegal.

This provides a mechanism for SELECTIVE ENFORCEMENT, as anybody you decide to go after will eventually be found to have broken some law some where, given enough scrutiny.

To me, it's a question of degree; could the government go after the biggest and more egregious stuff first, and then, when that stuff is tidied up, go after the crimes of lesser magnitude?

To bottom feed about relatively minor infractions with so much big stuff going on has an aroma of selective enforcement, which is pretty unjust.

I get most of my law information from the words and wisdom of Frank Zappa. The Ashley case has Joes Garage written all over it!

-90% Jimmy

 

[BlueStangGT]

That kind of stuff happens a lot...just a word processing mistake more often than not. Embarrassing for sure, but not a big deal.

The most troubling part of this to me was the mention in one of the stories about a prior deal back in 1996. I would suspect that that fact alone would give you the answer as to why the government is looking harder at this situation than it might otherwise.

Best left to play out on its own to see what happens before any conclusions.

Thanks for the response and the insight. Do you feel that the judge's initial ruling in Mike's favor is an indication of anything significant?

 

[mw6789]

One point here.

We in America have a minefield of laws. If any one of us becomes a target of the federal government, with enough searching, they can come up with stuff we've done that's illegal.

This provides a mechanism for SELECTIVE ENFORCEMENT, as anybody you decide to go after will eventually be found to have broken some law some where, given enough scrutiny.

To me, it's a question of degree; could the government go after the biggest and more egregious stuff first, and then, when that stuff is tidied up, go after the crimes of lesser magnitude?

To bottom feed about relatively minor infractions with so much big stuff going on has an aroma of selective enforcement, which is pretty unjust.

I get most of my law information from the words and wisdom of Frank Zappa. The Ashley case has Joes Garage written all over it!

-90% Jimmy

You make some excellent points. My accountant had an issue over depreciation of a web site and evenutally called the IRS. The person she talked to there could not even give her an answer. It is because they want to interpret the laws as they wish when it suits their needs. And you are right--if they look hard enough, they can find something on anybody.

 

[mw6789]

Who would your trust to watch you 5 year old daughter while you ran an errand?? Mike Ashley or a Fed bureaucrat. My vote goes for Mike anytime.

I have never met Mike, but know many who know him professionally and they say he is a very honorable guy with high family values and intergity.

I know the mortgage business very well and his company's batting average is probably in the top 10%. Dealing with sub prime type of borrowers is a nightmare. Remember these folks are "subprime" for a reason. 40 shakey loans our of 12000 with that crowd is great in my opinion.

Check with Chris Dodd or Barny Frank's buddy's records. With that bunch in competition Mike should get an award.

I know from first hand exprerience , when a over active Fed comes after you with all of the power of the US Government backing him,it is a chore to beat them down. Just take a lot of attorney fees and the truth to prevail. They assume most will cave and settle.

Just remember the only reason most US Attorneys are in that position is due to the fact they can not make it in the real legal world. They may make a 100K per year and love to bring down a businessman who makes 5 million. They have the attitude that if you make .that much money you must be a crook and never think that hard work and a good product can deliver such rewards. It is hard for them as they sit in there tiny shared office, take thier lunch to work and car pool home in a 9 year old mini van.

They just can't stand to see a guy like Mike, who could'nt any smarter than them (in thier mind)live a live they can only dream of.



Stangley the truth usually prevails.

Tom, you also make some excellent points. When you start dealing with the sub-prime folks, you soon realize why they are sub-prime. I have had enough dealing with those folks in the auto business to know that they are a little like playing with a rattlesnake--play long enough and you will get bitten. And as for Chris Dodd and Barney Frank, if they had an R beside their name and not a D, they would both be under investigation.

 

[rocketman]

Being that I no longer trust this administration, in any way shape or form, I'm taking Mr. Ashley's side on this one.

 

[shane]

I have a friend of mine who is a mortgage broker in California and he tells me that Ashley is in deep s**t. The predatory lending situtation (giving mortgages to people that the mortgage company know can't afford them) is illegal and if he's found guilty he could face jail time in federal prison.

 

[none]

(giving mortgages to people that the mortgage company know can't afford them)

.

I thought that was the definition of "SUBPRIME"

 

[super duck]

Why don't we wait until the FACTS come to light. Remember Helio Castroneves? Some zealot in the government, acting on bad information, put Helio through hell. He and his sister were completely exonerated.

The first time I met Mike, I was most impressed with the relationship between he and his son. I'm going to give him the benefit of waiting until we find out the full story on these 40 supposedly suspect loans, instead of throwing him under the bus.

You are right, Jim. I probably jumped to conclusions on that. Guess you trust the Gov. to do the right thing, but the Helio thing just shows you can't always. My fault ,sorry Mike!!!!!!

 

[Nick Name]

Carter started that, then Clinton really pushed it, forcing banks to make home loans to people who could not afford them. If they didn't do it, they were sued by the feds. That is how the whole mess got started.

They were called NINJA (no income, no job applicants) loans.

Bush waited way too long to put a stop to it, because the fake appreciation of real estate that it caused was driving the economy.

 

[yoda]

I thought that was the definition of "SUBPRIME"

Definition of subprime in the mortgage industry is borrowers that CAN afford the responsibility of a loan, but do not possess the credit history to be able to be worthy of a loan that does not cover the lender's risk of late payments or potential default by the borrower. The protection against that risk for the lender is a loan with a higher interest rate, which is paid back first on the loan over the principal when paying the mortgage. It guarantees that the lender will see their profit on the loan come back before the actual loan itself, and those profits were used to create new loans.

Subprime DOES NOT mean that someone that should have never gotten a loan in the first place (no job, no credit history, overextended on bills) should be eligable for a mortgage. But with deregulation came greed, and brokers, knowing that there was no way anyone could possibly look at every loan coming down the pipe, took advantage of the verbage

-kind of like how Force did regarding testing .

Most mortgage lenders just used the existing rules to their advantage because those that wrote the rules didn't cover all their bases, and smart people in the industry spent most of their time looking for all the holes in the Swiss cheese, as most business people do, to increase their profit margin. But the basis of subprime was corrupted as ANYBODY with enough capitol could get into the lending business and made loans under the subprime umbrella to those borrowers that came nowhere near close to being qualified.

Seems like Mike is getting the short end of a sharp stick being weilded by those same inept creators of the initial program who are looking for somplace to lay blame for the fact that they put into place a program that has ended up costing the United States billions of dollars. Hang tough, Mike- the truth will shine through soon enough.

 

[PiPPi]

Thanks to Martin Thomas for that write-up. Concise summary for us over-seas-folks.

Good to see Toni Froehling in this thread as well. Or in any thread for that matter

Regards
PiPPi
HarleyDrags.com

 

[Fairlane63]

If it's Mike Ashley's word against the Federal Government's, well, I support Mike Ashley all the way just on principle. If the federal government tells you that the sky is blue, go outside and check for yourself anyway...

 

[yoda]

... If the federal government tells you that the sky is blue, go outside and check for yourself anyway...

That's some FUNNY chi't!!!! Sadly true, but funny!!

 

[Jim]

When the government improves their due diligence, I'll take them seriously:.

From the Wall Street Journal - "New Buyers Program rife with fraud"

"The Treasury tax-oversight office said at least 19,000 filers who hadn't bought homes claimed $139 million in tax credits and were reimbursed, raising new worries about the housing stimulus as lawmakers consider extending the credit.

Treasury oversight officials said they have found an additional 74,000 tax-credit claims, valued at $500 million, where evidence of previous homeownership could make their claims invalid."

Link to entire article:
Home-Buyer Credit Tempts Tax Cheats - WSJ.com

-------------
This is the monster the Community Re-investment Act created:

Fannie and Freddie (wielding an implicit federal guarantee) agrees to buy any mortgage that meets standards.

Politicians force banks to loan to JUST ANYBODY - incentivizing irresponsible lending with the Fannie and Freeddy GUARANTEING acceptance of ANYBODY
and (more important) PUNISHING lenders who try to operate responsibly and employ reasonable underwriting standards.

What would YOU do?

Look the other way and make a ton of money or try to be prudent and have Barney and Dodd harranging you in Congress.
Now that the Merry-Go-Round has stopped, the politicians will try to demonize the folks they strong-armed into doing their will.

-----------

One thing to keep in mind with this kind of story is that with just about any business, if the government digs around enough, it will find something that can be used as the basis of a suit.

With the volume of transactions most businesses do, and the number of people working for each company, things happen. But that doesn't mean they were intentional.

Now, why go after a company like Lend America instead of a bigger fish like Countrywide? Lend America is big enough that the numbers will impress the public that something is being done, but not big enough to be able to put up the same fight that a Bank of America could put up.

It was the same as when the government put Martha Stewart in jail. What she did was small potatoes compared to other people, but she was easy to prosecute, got a lot of attention and made it look as if the government was doing its job.

So if you wonder why the government is going after Lend America, think about taking your shoes off when you go through security at the airport. It doesn't accomplish much but it looks like a lot is being done.

Jim

 

[.]

Looks like there are more keyboard lawyers than crewchiefs on here this week.

 

[Baron]

ON THE NEWS - NOW - 4:34 EDT, the Inspector General of the Treasury Department announced that 53 IRS employees have illegally taken the first time buyer's real estate credit.

I'm no expert. I am a retired prosecutor, there are a couple of chaps currently making license plates on a long term basis resulting from convictions I obtained for organized crime activity, including mortgage fraud, and I have been admitted to the practice of law for 36 years. So, I may be missing something; but . . . .

Mike Ashley has not been accused in a criminal indictment.
Fraud requires intent. If Mike was unaware of some alleged fraudulent activity, he did not commit fraud.
Any fraud committed by an employee may, under some circumstances, be attributable to a company for civil purposes.
We should all wait to see what the evidence shows. I can honestly say that I have seen instances in which cases have been filed which should never have been filed in the first place. Does that surprise you?

I wish Mike all the best. Nothing, however, will surprise me.
Cheers,
Ed

 

[mw6789]

ON THE NEWS - NOW - 4:34 EDT, the Inspector General of the Treasury Department announced that 53 IRS employees have illegally taken the first time buyer's real estate credit.

I'm no expert. I am a retired prosecutor, there are a couple of chaps currently making license plates on a long term basis resulting from convictions I obtained for organized crime activity, including mortgage fraud, and I have been admitted to the practice of law for 36 years. So, I may be missing something; but . . . .

Mike Ashley has not been accused in a criminal indictment.
Fraud requires intent. If Mike was unaware of some alleged fraudulent activity, he did not commit fraud.
Any fraud committed by an employee may, under some circumstances, be attributable to a company for civil purposes.
We should all wait to see what the evidence shows. I can honestly say that I have seen instances in which cases have been filed which should never have been filed in the first place. Does that surprise you?

I wish Mike all the best. Nothing, however, will surprise me.
Cheers,
Ed

If you are a retired prosecutor and that does not make you an expert, then what does that make the rest of us clowns?!?!

 

[Fuel FC Fan]

The sad part is...
This Gov. will sue you if they choose to, but good luck trying to sue them back for damages, etc. if your proven innocent.
What an outrage.

Barney Frank, Christopher Dodd etc., etc, etc, rammed loan program's with zero oversight for years......Bush had no chance controlling those bone heads, but still gets the Bash for this mess.

Worse than all that...the Big Investment Banks were bundling up so called "AAA" Tranches while selling them off at 50:1 Leverage as investment grade.
There actual real value was Junk.

Geeeeze.....Who was it that decided to take Debt, leverage it at 50:1
The have rating agencies, etc. put a value on it?????

That had to be the biggest Ponzi Scheme the world has ever seen.
Jmho.

 

[Z28LT1]

Good Morning,

I thought I would make one post just to state the facts. The lawsuit is packed full of lies. The company closed 12000 loans for the period and employs 600. We have a zero tolerance policy against loan fraud. The lawsuit alleges 40 loans with fraud in them. We take this seriously. However, there is no evidence to prove we knew about the fraud. With 600 employees and 12000 loans during the period we do our best to prevent loan fraud and it is a big task. The evidence provided by the government was nothing more than unbacked overeaching allegations. There is one agent in the IG office that hates me and is on a vendetta. He attacks me every couple of years unsuccessfully. As you probably already know the government lost in court yesterday. Right over might. Give me the benefit of the doubt in this one. This is our taxpayer money at work. Wasting time and money.

Thanks for coming on and standing up for yourself! I know I'll be in your corner. 40 out of 12000 isn't a substantial amount by any means and I for one can understand if .003% accidentally slip through the cracks somehow. that seems like a witch hunt to me. Go get 'em Mike! Cant wait to see you in a car again!

 

[Baron]

If you are a retired prosecutor and that does not make you an expert, then what does that make the rest of us clowns?!?!

You know the old definition of an expert, Mike. An "ex" is a has-been and a "spurt" is a drip - under pressure!

I just wanted to put in a word of caution and show some support for Mike. I believe and hope that he is not involved in any wrongdoing.

Cheers,
Ed