I think it's something like $50K per race to lease a competitive Pro Stock engine. And you can bet it's expensive as all hell to build a Factory X engine - after all, they're doubling the OEM power (roughly from 700 to 1400) with no increase in cubic inches and that ain't cheap.
Factory X (9 Viewers)
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I think it's something like $50K per race to lease a competitive Pro Stock engine. And you can bet it's expensive as all hell to build a Factory X engine - after all, they're doubling the OEM power (roughly from 700 to 1400) with no increase in cubic inches and that ain't cheap.
swervin
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Alex laughlin posted Geoff Turks message about the cheaters that got caught at Indy including the winner. NHRA has posted the violations/fines and then a rule change to allow the cheating parts to be used going forward. I wouldn't expect the winner to keep the win if found cheating.
Here is the post from Facebook
BlackbirdX Unplugged!!!
Exciting news ….we plan to go out and run BlackbirdX in a number of venues the remainder of this season, unplugged, where we finally light it’s afterburners, as always intended and with an ear to ear grinning Alex Laughlin behind the wheel.
For the remainder of the year, we no longer plan to compete in the NHRA Factory X events.
For the rest of the somewhat long story, read below …….
For decades I’ve listened to folks complain about NHRA, in general but often in relation to the heads up classes. Complaints about their perceived favoritism to a brand and/or to some team or another, demonstrated in this rule, ruling or ‘parity adjustment’ were frequent and plentiful. My response was often along two lines, first, perhaps your view is skewed and here are some facts to defend their actions / choices (and I often did this even when such actions directly, negatively impacted my favorite brand, Dodge) and two, if on a fundamental principles level, are on some significant point(s), you strongly disagree, go race elsewhere.
While there are many depictions and reports of what transpired at the most recent US Nationals in the Factory Showdown and Factory X classes, there are now many things that are irrefutable, published and unquestionably true.
Top level teams and many, many of their drivers were blatantly, flagrantly and in numerous highly deceitful ways, massively cheating to gain advantage and win. Performance changes in these competitors make it clear that this was not a one event occurrence, but a pattern of behavior with corresponding impacts and race outcomes that reach far back to the beginning of this season and perhaps back further. These facts are undoubtedly true.
What is also now apparent and true is that having discovered this, even before the race was run and even with clear further rule violations to follow at this same event, NHRA has made after the fact corrective actions that are far, far less impactful than the infractions themselves. Where immediate disqualifications, multi month or year(s) long suspensions and significant fines would have, in many, many past precedents been applied (where the rule violations, were in fact arguably far less and for far shorter a time), here NHRA chose minor point standings adjustments, almost comical level fines, no DQs and no driver competition / crew chief suspensions. To top it off, those that were clearly participating in such things, have now been given a ‘parity adjustment’ to largely restore the power reduction (about two to two and a half tenths of ET) removed with the cheating that was discovered.
In the famous case of Jerry Eckman, prior to competition, in Pro Stock, a nitrous bottle and system explosion in the pits in his entry, before any runs were made and perhaps one not even yet connected and functional, when discovered, resulted in he and his crew chief being suspended from competition for two years and fined $25,000, each (in today’s dollars equivalent to $50-100k). The system had not been run and based upon performance, there was no clear evidence it ever had been. While this level of corrective action might have been too heavy handed, the contrast to what was just done, is startling.
I will no longer attempt to defend the actions of NHRA, debate their accused favoritism to a brand and/or competitor or group of competitors because their actions are simply, indefensible.
As I’ve often suggested to those who saw it this way, we will no longer compete in these heads up Factory Showdown or Factory X classes in the NHRA.
Win or lose, we enjoy pursuing worthy goals and competing against worthy competitors, especially in our sometimes challenging to make compete brand, Dodge. In these classes, winning or losing now has little to any meaning, well, except perhaps, that with the right influence and applied resources (resources that have little or nothing to do with actually fairly improving the performance of your race car, or driving it well but when whose influence is applied, now so clearly impact rule making, enforcement) and where you can cheat, repeatedly, avoid any real consequence and are rewarded with performance adjustments that favor you, what does winning or appearing to run well mean ?
As disappointing as this has all has been on many levels, and as difficult a decision this is for our team, to me personally, it is not nearly as difficult as the stark realization and conclusions that it inevitably leads to, that to me are far worse.
The conclusion that the competitors you once respected and the rule makers you often defended, in this regard, warrant neither respect nor defense and that their past performances and accomplishments, along with any future outcomes they are involved in, may not be at all what they appear to be… all of this is the real heart crushing truth to me.
This further aggravated by their feeble defenses that what was done was in the ‘gray’ area of the rules, that perhaps we may also have done the same (BlackbirdX, and its older brother Blackbird, have combined been torn down and thoroughly checked 15-20 times with no infraction of any kind, even a minor one, ever identified and no such approaches were ever taken to improving it’s performance), that it is the very ‘innovation’ that drives performance improvement in all such competitive motorsports, that everyone else was cheating also, that in the end, they had no choice but to massively cheat because others must have been doing so to have the performance advantages they had. These arguments reveal their true characters and the depth of guilt they now bath in. They are not competitors, they are something else and it’s possible, they were never really winners in this sport.
As I am not here to judge them, in a broader human way, I do still see them as God’s creations and know, in far more important ways, they are not ‘bad’ people. I will give them all as much grace as I can muster, keep praying for more, for myself and them, but I will not waste our time and resources attempting to fairly compete with them.
In the end, we have a bright and exciting new day in which we will once again, go get after it, pursue and break new performance barriers, find and dive into new endeavors in racing and pour ourselves into helping others, fairly and legitimately pursue their racing, go fast dreams and succeed, after all, its what we have always done at Blackbird Performance.
Here is the post from Facebook
Blackbird Performance
·BlackbirdX Unplugged!!!
Exciting news ….we plan to go out and run BlackbirdX in a number of venues the remainder of this season, unplugged, where we finally light it’s afterburners, as always intended and with an ear to ear grinning Alex Laughlin behind the wheel.
For the remainder of the year, we no longer plan to compete in the NHRA Factory X events.
For the rest of the somewhat long story, read below …….
For decades I’ve listened to folks complain about NHRA, in general but often in relation to the heads up classes. Complaints about their perceived favoritism to a brand and/or to some team or another, demonstrated in this rule, ruling or ‘parity adjustment’ were frequent and plentiful. My response was often along two lines, first, perhaps your view is skewed and here are some facts to defend their actions / choices (and I often did this even when such actions directly, negatively impacted my favorite brand, Dodge) and two, if on a fundamental principles level, are on some significant point(s), you strongly disagree, go race elsewhere.
While there are many depictions and reports of what transpired at the most recent US Nationals in the Factory Showdown and Factory X classes, there are now many things that are irrefutable, published and unquestionably true.
Top level teams and many, many of their drivers were blatantly, flagrantly and in numerous highly deceitful ways, massively cheating to gain advantage and win. Performance changes in these competitors make it clear that this was not a one event occurrence, but a pattern of behavior with corresponding impacts and race outcomes that reach far back to the beginning of this season and perhaps back further. These facts are undoubtedly true.
What is also now apparent and true is that having discovered this, even before the race was run and even with clear further rule violations to follow at this same event, NHRA has made after the fact corrective actions that are far, far less impactful than the infractions themselves. Where immediate disqualifications, multi month or year(s) long suspensions and significant fines would have, in many, many past precedents been applied (where the rule violations, were in fact arguably far less and for far shorter a time), here NHRA chose minor point standings adjustments, almost comical level fines, no DQs and no driver competition / crew chief suspensions. To top it off, those that were clearly participating in such things, have now been given a ‘parity adjustment’ to largely restore the power reduction (about two to two and a half tenths of ET) removed with the cheating that was discovered.
In the famous case of Jerry Eckman, prior to competition, in Pro Stock, a nitrous bottle and system explosion in the pits in his entry, before any runs were made and perhaps one not even yet connected and functional, when discovered, resulted in he and his crew chief being suspended from competition for two years and fined $25,000, each (in today’s dollars equivalent to $50-100k). The system had not been run and based upon performance, there was no clear evidence it ever had been. While this level of corrective action might have been too heavy handed, the contrast to what was just done, is startling.
I will no longer attempt to defend the actions of NHRA, debate their accused favoritism to a brand and/or competitor or group of competitors because their actions are simply, indefensible.
As I’ve often suggested to those who saw it this way, we will no longer compete in these heads up Factory Showdown or Factory X classes in the NHRA.
Win or lose, we enjoy pursuing worthy goals and competing against worthy competitors, especially in our sometimes challenging to make compete brand, Dodge. In these classes, winning or losing now has little to any meaning, well, except perhaps, that with the right influence and applied resources (resources that have little or nothing to do with actually fairly improving the performance of your race car, or driving it well but when whose influence is applied, now so clearly impact rule making, enforcement) and where you can cheat, repeatedly, avoid any real consequence and are rewarded with performance adjustments that favor you, what does winning or appearing to run well mean ?
As disappointing as this has all has been on many levels, and as difficult a decision this is for our team, to me personally, it is not nearly as difficult as the stark realization and conclusions that it inevitably leads to, that to me are far worse.
The conclusion that the competitors you once respected and the rule makers you often defended, in this regard, warrant neither respect nor defense and that their past performances and accomplishments, along with any future outcomes they are involved in, may not be at all what they appear to be… all of this is the real heart crushing truth to me.
This further aggravated by their feeble defenses that what was done was in the ‘gray’ area of the rules, that perhaps we may also have done the same (BlackbirdX, and its older brother Blackbird, have combined been torn down and thoroughly checked 15-20 times with no infraction of any kind, even a minor one, ever identified and no such approaches were ever taken to improving it’s performance), that it is the very ‘innovation’ that drives performance improvement in all such competitive motorsports, that everyone else was cheating also, that in the end, they had no choice but to massively cheat because others must have been doing so to have the performance advantages they had. These arguments reveal their true characters and the depth of guilt they now bath in. They are not competitors, they are something else and it’s possible, they were never really winners in this sport.
As I am not here to judge them, in a broader human way, I do still see them as God’s creations and know, in far more important ways, they are not ‘bad’ people. I will give them all as much grace as I can muster, keep praying for more, for myself and them, but I will not waste our time and resources attempting to fairly compete with them.
In the end, we have a bright and exciting new day in which we will once again, go get after it, pursue and break new performance barriers, find and dive into new endeavors in racing and pour ourselves into helping others, fairly and legitimately pursue their racing, go fast dreams and succeed, after all, its what we have always done at Blackbird Performance.
mikebcurve
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I don’t fully understand what went down, but it’s hard to argue with what Geoff said. I wish him the best in whatever direction this takes him.
I’m a big fan of the Stanfield teams and told my son I would be surprised if they were blatantly cheating. If so, I’m disappointed in them. Once again we have confusing decisions by the NHRA that they will most likely never address.
I’m a big fan of the Stanfield teams and told my son I would be surprised if they were blatantly cheating. If so, I’m disappointed in them. Once again we have confusing decisions by the NHRA that they will most likely never address.
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This is nothing new for NHRA. Their blatant favoritism toward GM racers has been going on, at least, since 1972 when they allowed Grumpy Jenkins to run a tube chassis in his Vega with a stupidly favorable weight break and effectively legislated the Hemi cars out of competition.
When the Mopars were out of the picture NHRA went after the Fords. Because of the weight breaks, Glidden’s 351 Cleveland Pinto had to outweigh 427 Camaros.
Then, the rules changed and Glidden ran a small block Plymouth Arrow.
When Glidden proved his mastery in extracting maximum power from any engine, the rules were changed again to force the Fords and Mopars out, again in favor of the GM cars.
The 500 inch era still had Fords and Mopars, powered by engines that were the same make as the cars.
Then, when NHRA instituted an RPM limit, everybody and his brother knew the Mopars would be adversely affected the most.
Now, all we see are GM powered pro stock cars.
Pro Stock used to be a great class to watch when there was a variety of manufacturers involved. Now it is nothing but a great time to hit the bathroom and snack bar.
And, if I’m watching the race on television, I always record the show, even if it’s live, so I can fast-forward past pro stock.
Didn’t Wally Parks, long after the fact, admit that it was a mistake to penalize the Mopars?
I guess the current rules makers have forgotten about that period of competition because they are definitely repeating their history.
I wish somebody at NHRA had the stones to tell the GM racers to stop whining and work harder to improve their own performance instead of penalizing those manufacturers with better performance.
But, NHRA’s philosophy is “If you can’t beat them, we’ll ban them for you.”
To me, that’s a recognition of mediocrity of the manufacturer that needs the one-sided penalties placed on the other manufacturer(s).
Who here honestly believes if a Ford or Mopar was involved in this latest incident that the same decision would be made?
If so, I’ve got a bridge in Alaska I’ll sell you.
When the Mopars were out of the picture NHRA went after the Fords. Because of the weight breaks, Glidden’s 351 Cleveland Pinto had to outweigh 427 Camaros.
Then, the rules changed and Glidden ran a small block Plymouth Arrow.
When Glidden proved his mastery in extracting maximum power from any engine, the rules were changed again to force the Fords and Mopars out, again in favor of the GM cars.
The 500 inch era still had Fords and Mopars, powered by engines that were the same make as the cars.
Then, when NHRA instituted an RPM limit, everybody and his brother knew the Mopars would be adversely affected the most.
Now, all we see are GM powered pro stock cars.
Pro Stock used to be a great class to watch when there was a variety of manufacturers involved. Now it is nothing but a great time to hit the bathroom and snack bar.
And, if I’m watching the race on television, I always record the show, even if it’s live, so I can fast-forward past pro stock.
Didn’t Wally Parks, long after the fact, admit that it was a mistake to penalize the Mopars?
I guess the current rules makers have forgotten about that period of competition because they are definitely repeating their history.
I wish somebody at NHRA had the stones to tell the GM racers to stop whining and work harder to improve their own performance instead of penalizing those manufacturers with better performance.
But, NHRA’s philosophy is “If you can’t beat them, we’ll ban them for you.”
To me, that’s a recognition of mediocrity of the manufacturer that needs the one-sided penalties placed on the other manufacturer(s).
Who here honestly believes if a Ford or Mopar was involved in this latest incident that the same decision would be made?
If so, I’ve got a bridge in Alaska I’ll sell you.
What a shame; I had such high hopes for Factory X and you would think NHRA would, too, being as 50+ years of Pro Stock that is now mostly relegated to the same make and model of car running the same engine, has become increasingly stale. In a comparatively same-old class that requires massive amounts of money and technical skill, eventually people and sponsors are going to say it's just not worth it anymore, in particular if NHRA turns a blind eye to any potential cheating.
A former member (and member of Comp Plus) who was heavily involved in Pro Stock competition on more than one occasion emphatically stated that while outright cheating in the class, while it happens, is not rampant but technology theft between teams was off the charts at one time. Which would explain why team members are so jumpy when PS fans take pictures of their pit area and their cars. They don't know if you're a fan or a spy from a competing team. Jason Line once told me in no uncertain terms to GTFO when I stood at the ropes and snapped a few pics of his and Greg's Camaros in their pits. Looking back, I can understand why.
What I don't understand is NHRA. They're gonna kill this exciting new class. I could be wrong but I understand racers were busted for using smaller blower pulleys and then turned right around and OKd the pulleys afterward. What kind of crap is that, if true? But what does one do? Put up with it, race a different class. race under a different sanctioning body or quit racing altogether. Not exactly four favorable options.
A former member (and member of Comp Plus) who was heavily involved in Pro Stock competition on more than one occasion emphatically stated that while outright cheating in the class, while it happens, is not rampant but technology theft between teams was off the charts at one time. Which would explain why team members are so jumpy when PS fans take pictures of their pit area and their cars. They don't know if you're a fan or a spy from a competing team. Jason Line once told me in no uncertain terms to GTFO when I stood at the ropes and snapped a few pics of his and Greg's Camaros in their pits. Looking back, I can understand why.
What I don't understand is NHRA. They're gonna kill this exciting new class. I could be wrong but I understand racers were busted for using smaller blower pulleys and then turned right around and OKd the pulleys afterward. What kind of crap is that, if true? But what does one do? Put up with it, race a different class. race under a different sanctioning body or quit racing altogether. Not exactly four favorable options.
andujar
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The infractions are listed here: https://www.nhraracer.com/archive.asp
mikebcurve
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Always been a big pro stock fan. It’s definitely not the great class it once was. I’m sure growing up in the era that had already been tainted affected my opinion on modern pro stock. I think I’m starting to see things a bit different. It’s hard to defend the NHRA’s actions. I think they have mishandled factory stock to a point of no return and definitely killed my enthusiasm for Factory X in one fell swoop.
Ramjet
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Only one of those was a performance enhancing violation. The others could be possibly Safety or probably ease if servicing. "Move along - nothing to see here."
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I finished the sentence for them;
Based on the FLEXJET NHRA Factory Stock Showdown performance numbers from the Toyota NHRA US Nationals in Indianapolis, IN, the NHRA Technical Department is increasing the supercharger overdrive by changing the supercharger rear jack shaft pulley and rear cog pulley for the 2019-2023 Chevrolet COPO 350 from 32 teeth to 34 teeth on the jack shaft pulley and from 34 teeth to 32 teeth on the supercharger pulley. This rule change will go into effect immediately. NHRA reserves the right in the future to make additional rule changes to control performance and maintain parity in the category, in order to let the GM cars win.
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People say the same thing about Pro Stock. Look at how that class turned out.
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In the very early 2000s during a rain delay at Memphis, I stopped by Allen Johnson's pit and a crewman asked me to not take pictures of their engine. I was concentrating more on getting pictures of the crew themselves going through their paces and not the engine bay. I told the guy I promise not to let anybody else see the pictures. Roy Johnson heard me. He said, and not directed at me, "Yeah, I've heard that before." I put my camera down. We talked for a few seconds, and I left them to their business. It was a quick, funny exchange.
But, I wasn't about to get crossways with Mr. Johnson.
how about dedicating these fines to propping up the tech dept. resources instead of the safety safari? i think into last year this was going on, and these
cars were being teched and passed!? really? ....... pretty sad these 2 classes, and especially the new factory X class;
the honest guys throwing their time and money at it and coming up short, not understanding what they were missing ....... oh, it was an illegal pulley.
cheating is nothing new, but it occurs to me that one team in question here doubled up at indy, and it appears they get to keep their trophy with a $2500 slap on wrists?
never forgetting millican's debacle in texas of '23; $5k fine and DQ'd from event with zero points ...... the lesser fine was an illegal part with distinct performance advantage.
the higher fine with additional penalties was not performance enhancing. best guess is this story dies off quickly and it's business as usual? sad.
cars were being teched and passed!? really? ....... pretty sad these 2 classes, and especially the new factory X class;
the honest guys throwing their time and money at it and coming up short, not understanding what they were missing ....... oh, it was an illegal pulley.
cheating is nothing new, but it occurs to me that one team in question here doubled up at indy, and it appears they get to keep their trophy with a $2500 slap on wrists?
never forgetting millican's debacle in texas of '23; $5k fine and DQ'd from event with zero points ...... the lesser fine was an illegal part with distinct performance advantage.
the higher fine with additional penalties was not performance enhancing. best guess is this story dies off quickly and it's business as usual? sad.
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ironpony
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I do not agree with what they did but NHRA's failure was to provide the rules properly. The rule said 32 TEETH the pulley had 32 teeth. NHRA did not clarify pulley diameter and someone cleverly figured out how to have 32 TEETH on a larger diameter pulley.
I worked in the environmental field and this type of issue is dealt with daily, do not read what the rules say you can do figure out what you can not do and do the opposite.
I worked in the environmental field and this type of issue is dealt with daily, do not read what the rules say you can do figure out what you can not do and do the opposite.
mikebcurve
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NHRA FINES FACTORY X, FACTORY STOCK SHOWDOWN RACERS; NEITHER PARTY WILLING TO TALK | Competition Plus
Those close to the situation will say the intent was crystal clear, even if the NHRA will not comment on the record. The NHRA opted to decline comment on the racers who were fined and docked points, and another experienced both and was disqualified from the 70th annual NHRA U.S. Nationals in...
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This one line in that article is a crock of male bovine feces: A source close to the situation said NHRA opted against disqualification in sport's and competitors' best interests.
They didn't opt against disqualification in Tony Scott's case; why not? He too allegedly violated NHRA supercharger overdrive rules which can only be accomplished the same way as the others - non-compliant drive pulleys. He didn't just get booted; they took away ALL his points.
NHRA should have done the same thing to all of them; it shouldn't matter that you're a top shelf PS/FX/FS racer and engine builder who drives a Camaro. And how this can be appealed is beyond my comprehension. The violations were right there - 2 had an irregular number of pulley teeth and one was oversized. Pretty black and white infraction in my opinion.
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