Ethanol Sucks

[Larry]

You guys are totally right , the Ethanol is 28 percent less efficient than RUL gas at the 85 percent level. Since they both generate the same dreaded [ hoax ] CO2 emissions then you could say the Ethanol pollutes more.
We won't discuss the energy consumed to till, plant , harvest , and get a finished product that can be added to the fossil fuels we burn.
The figures are in 2007 had a .07 of one degree temp. drop worldwide , the most drop since temps have been recorded and the coolest year since 1993.
The solar activity began again about three weeks ago after a two year hiatus and ten months behind schedule [ as if the sun has a schedule].
So instead of buying snowmobiles in Tampa we can once again we can stock up on tanning oil.
One time Chicago area was under a mile of ice.
Kind of hard to grow corn under a mile of ice !
Personally I notice the difference in fuel burn and mileage when I travel to NM and west Texas where the gas is not reformulated.
I knew Damn Yankees was alright , I have very close friends who are life long Democrats who just don't realise who is running the show on the national level.
You would really have to have your wires crossed to expound the merits of socialism and groupism.
There are exceptions that laws take care of but ignoring race, color and creed in favor of Character is a conservative cornerstone.
Nope we are not being served well by either side.
Clone 537 Sheriff Joe Apiao's and send them to DC.
I know you can't clone souls but its the thought that counts.

 

[Nitrohaulic]

well, everything is political. But that isn't the point of this thread. I don't like having ethanol in my fuel. I don't have a choice. It pisses me off. I don't see what it's gaining us. I 'm a big Indycar fan too but the fact they are running ethanol instead of methanol now just makes me roll my eyes. They had to make their fuel tanks bigger and make more pit stops. Plus methanol smelled like racing fuel. Ethanol smells like Orville Redenbacher took a dump.

I don't see how this is a political subject. I suppose if you want to figure out who to blame for it happening - but I don't think either side of the aisle is innocent of exploiting this issue. Bush talked specifically about ethanol a couple of state of the union addresses ago. It's a joke. It's not going to get the job done.
As far as Gore , I never even watched his movie. He's a crashing bore and an egomaniac. I 'm registered D always have been but don't think for a minute I believe half of what either party says.

I look for charisma and intelligence in my leaders. Not ideology.

Now please someone tell me why 10 % ethanol and 90% petrol in my RX-8 is a good thing?

Damn, Bob. There you go, trying to be non political on an obviously political thread. What a troublemaker! You're gonna cause this thread to be moved to the lounge!

Well, someone needs to straighten me out. I thought you just had a problem with alcohol in your gas. I thought ethanol and methanol were just two forms of alcohol and that they'd both produce the same amount of BTUs when burned in a combustion engine. I have a problem with EITHER being in my gas, especially with gas now costing more than alcohol.

 

[Bobby]

well you're right I muddied the waters. Indycar switched to ethanol and are making a big deal about it telling us why it's so socially responsible. It seems to me to coincide with the move to add alcohol( ethanol) to our passenger cars' fuel. I don't remember ever seeing "contains up to 10% methanol " at the gas pump. I 'd probably like that if it made my car smell like a proper race car

So that's why I brought up the indycar ethanol issue. they are using indycar to promote the use of ethanol in our cars . I 'm not interested. But I don't see where I have a choice. Now back to Monaco qualifying on speed- 107 octane racing gas there.....

 

[Nitrohaulic]

If what's on this table is correct, it looks like ethanol might even produce more energy than methanol.

Energy density - Transwiki

 

[Super Mod]

Call me a renegade,but I can buy it for 3.019. Gas is at 3.899.My highway mileage decreases by 10%. So I think it still comes out on top.

 

[Bobby]

Call me a renegade,but I can buy it for 3.019. Gas is at 3.899.My highway mileage decreases by 10%. So I think it still comes out on top.

well that's great if you have a car that can run on it. I have a car designed for gasoline that's being fed 10 % ethanol.

 

[Larry]

Might as well get used to $hitty Gas and high prices.
Till sanity prevails and everyone realises the correct answer is drill, burn stalks instead of food , build a lot of wind generators and harness geothermal and wave action, in other words whatever it takes to continue on then the
" Not in my backyard crowd " can carry the rest of us to work on their backs if there is any work left to do.
Folks two lines crossed in 2005.
One line is available crude feedstocks and the other is usage of fuels from that feedstocks.
Supply and Demand if you will.
Like any market force if their is a shortage then the price goes up.
No dog and pony show in D.C. is going to change that.
Even the people who work to bring us gasoline to our stations are hurting as well. T. Boone Pickens who predicted $150 a bbl oil by the end of this year[ he did it early last year] says we are already passed the point where high energy prices will kill the economy.
But not in my backyard! Like drilling is still like those old movies where oil is shooting up in the air. Jeez wise up people. This summer the University close to my house in a city is allowing drilling in the Stadium parking lot.
In the next five years over three hundred gas wells will be drilled in the city limits.
Flordia beaches are a marvel ,I love them.
The Chinese are starting to drill off the Cuban coast less than 90 miles from Florida to enrich the Cuban regime and I hope they share the wealth with the people but I wouldn't hold my breath.
I doubt the Chinese care to spend the peoples money to drill clean.
The US has laws and they are strictly enforced.
I could go on for hours about how Anwar would supply 6 percent of our supplys for many years and how 11 billion bbls in proven oil reserves lie off the So Cal coast while our economy is fast going down the tubes since when???
2006 ,just coincidence??
No Our energy policies and no drill in 67 percent of our territory goes back 40 years or more.
Too many of those old gusher movies I suppose.
Rant over going back to surfing for parts.
http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/steo/pub/4btab.pdf
If you are interested supplies are up and refineries are at 85 persent so if you can afford to buy it there is plenty.
Of course the usual local shortages due to there being 133 different designer fuels mandated for local markets by your lawmakers causing refineries to blend all these designer fuels at extra cost and time.

 

[Nitrohaulic]

For the liberals who would prefer socialism over capitalism, I'm sure the economy failing is a GOOD thing! The more they can make it artificially fail with high taxes, high energy costs due to drilling not allowed, the more the media will just act like capitalism is flawed and, people will vote for more "tax the rich" economy killers to keep the downward spiral going.

 

[Bobby]

There was a proposal to install windmills off the coast of cape cod. Kennedy killed it. It was so stupid, so ridiculous, so beyond the realm of sensibility.

It would have created an incredible amount of CLEAN energy , electricity created by the wind, and set a huge example for our nation as a whole.
And really, they wouldn't have looked that bad. A heck of a lot nicer than the things we are used to looking at already like cell towers and power lines.

Wake up America.

p.s maybe it's still got a chance

Cape Wind :: America's First Offshore Wind Farm on Nantucket Sound

 

[Nitrohaulic]

I don't know where they're making them or where they're going but, pretty much every week when I'm traveling up and down I-81, I see very long, extended oversize load trailers carrying windmill wings, headed south.

 

[clwill]

I don't know where they're making them or where they're going but, pretty much every week when I'm traveling up and down I-81, I see very long, extended oversize load trailers carrying windmill wings, headed south.

From what I understand, GE's main windmill plant and warehouse is in Memphis. That near you??

 

[Nitrohaulic]

From what I understand, GE's main windmill plant and warehouse is in Memphis. That near you??

Other side of the state but, that makes sense. They must be making them in the northeast, then shipping down I-81 to where it dead ends into I-40. Then just go 400 or so miles to Memphis.

You see them parked in weigh stations at night since they can only run in the daytime. I've never seen them further north than lower Pennsylvania on I-81,

 

[Larry]

I was near Sweetwater Tx. the other day amongst about a hundred of those things.
My old mother said it reminded her of something from a science fiction movie.

I took a picture with a few in it.
They are remarkably silent, you can hear a dull hum as the blades displace the air.
They appear to be moving real slow [ because of their size ] but are actually going fast at the tip.
The hub is about two hundred feet in the air.

Seems the rich lead the " Not in my backyard syndrome ".

 

["Dr. Dirt"]

I'm as conservative as anyone on this or any other board but conservatism doesn't mean sticking by "Old School-traditional" energy sources by any means. My sons and I just closed a transaction where we sold 3000 acres for the world's largest Solar generation field just Southwest of Phoenix in Gila Bend right on I-8. You will be quite surprised to see what us "Capitalists" are doing to move ourselves away from foreign oil dependency. I've heard lots of talk from the liberals but they seem to only be in the business of killing such ideas. I find it a shame.

 

[Larry]

That's me too Doc , I'm all for whatever it takes to keep energy at an affordable level.
All those " Not In My Backyards " might pay attention if suddenly gasoline and electricity was not available to them.

Those Wind Turbines are really neat. T. Boone Pickens owns over 600 of them and has orders issued for another 900 of them.
He is a onetime big oil man [ producer] who said at some point conservation and alternative sources of energy would become profitable.
There you are [ Green ] clean and a money maker.
You can tell when something is right because it satisfys all requirements.

 

[G'ginna]

We see parts & pieces of those wind machines passing through here all the time. This may be in the middle of oil country but we have wind farms to the north, east and west of us... just a matter of time before they are also south of us. It's pretty interesting, 2 blades per over-sized truck. One of the center parts with cap that holds everything together & generates the energy in the middle takes a truck by itself from what I have seen.

 

[Larry]

I hang out in Breckenridge and Abilene alot and the trucks hauling the parts are a common sight .
The early units were prone to fail but solid state and better sealed bearings helped alot.
I'll bet they are using ceramic bearings .
Say I wonder whatever happened to Pat Musi's ceramic round valves that rotated like a rotary engine.
They were good to 15,000 RPM's or so.
I think it was Musi , I remember it was Long Island.
Never get a bottom end to hold up to that.
Might as well design a whole new engine and use hydrogen to power it.
One thing for sure " The Times They Are A Changing ".

 

[Stroker]

Rotary Valve System

 

[Larry]

I don't really know how to take this one from NPR.
Food more expensive than Dope ?
Dope growers switching to growing the more expensive food !
A side effect of using food for fuel !
I have a feeling despite getting on in years I haven't seen anything yet!

From NPR

The sky-rocketing cost of wheat is breaking food budgets around the world. Families are paying more for bagels in Brooklyn and for flatbread in Afghanistan. The difference is that many Afghans are now spending half their earnings on bread alone. International aid is keeping the country — one of the world's poorest — from food riots and starvation. But the crisis may encourage some farmers to move out of the drug trade and into wheat.